The Complete Guide to Terrain, Improvements, Resources, and City Placement (v.2)

Stuporstar said:
The following buildings give health or happiness bonuses:

Granary: (Pottery)
stores 50% of food after growth
60H
+1 health from Corn, Rice, Wheat
Click to expand...


I believe the granary doesn't have that effect immediately after it's built, but needs to *filled* first. For example, if our granary has been finished last turn, and in this turn the city population grows, then the granary will not be half-full, but empty. However it starts to fill up, and when the city population grows *again*, it will remain half-full then.

Can anyone varify this?
 
Blkbird said:
I'm playing with the 1.09 patch, and cities *still* spread water - provided it is not built on a hill. I don't know if cities on hills were spreading water as well in 1.0 - which would indeed be a bug they've fixed.
Click to expand...

Can you post a screenshot? Article #10 in this thread shows that it's clearly not working in all cases.
 
DaviddesJ said:
Can you post a screenshot? Article #10 in this thread shows that it's clearly not working in all cases.
Click to expand...

That screenshot must be made in a game where Civil Service has not be researched yet. Cities on flatlands carry irrigation the same way farms do - only when Civil Service is available.

Screenshot from my game:



As you can see, the worker can build a farm where he is standing, which is only linked to fresh water via the city Samaria. Note also that a farm has already been built north east of the city, which was also only possible because the city carries on fresh water.

The fact that my game version is 1.09 is not visible in the screenshot - you have to take my word for it. :)
 
Blkbird said:
That screenshot must be made in a game where Civil Service has not be researched yet. Cities on flatlands carry irrigation the same way farms do - only when Civil Service is available.
Click to expand...

This is where the confusion is Blkbird. The claim is that people are seeing cities spread irrigation without civil service. That last screenshot I took was without civil service, which was the point to show that the irrigation does not spread without it, at least not in any games I've played.

Blkbird said:
Shouldn't that be: "Best income: 2F (Biology)"?
Click to expand...

Yes, thank you, I've changed that to "Best income: 2F (Biology with irrigation)".

Blkbird said:
I believe the biggest factor is not speed, but difficulty level. I've gained more than 100 hammers (101 just recently) from a single chop playing chieftain.
Click to expand...

Actually I've found that game difficulty has little bearing on the number of hammers you get from a chop; HOWEVER you do get bonuses for production in your cities on the low difficulty levels and this is what may be modifying the number of hammers you get. I've heard it's possible to get over 100 hammers on a Diety level game as well under the right conditions. I've changed my wording to "the most consistent factor is game speed" since a normal game's base hammer bonus is always 30 and epic is 45 and so on. Game difficulty does not change this by itself. I've played on all difficulty levels just to test this out, and the base bonus doesn't change at all.

Blkbird said:
This is definitely not true. I've seen a forest graw a tile with road with my own eyes - not just the before-after difference, but the whole animated growing process.
Click to expand...

I'll take your word on that. It's been generally assumed (by many people) that they don't grow on roads just because no one has ever mentioned seeing it happen in those discussions before. I've simply removed the reference to them not growing on roads for now. It makes sense that they could though, because a road does not destroy a forest when it is built like other improvements do.

Blkbird said:
I believe the granary doesn't have that effect immediately after it's built, but needs to *filled* first. For example, if our granary has been finished last turn, and in this turn the city population grows, then the granary will not be half-full, but empty. However it starts to fill up, and when the city population grows *again*, it will remain half-full then.

Can anyone varify this?
Click to expand...

I just took the info for that one directly out of the Civilopedia. I haven't varified it, but what you say makes sense.
 
Stuporstar said:
This is where the confusion is Blkbird. The claim is that people are seeing cities spread irrigation without civil service.
Click to expand...

Well *that* needs a screenshot proof, me thinks. I rather believe someone overlooked a fresh water source, like a "bending river" touching the tile.
 
Stuporstar said:
I'll take your word on that. It's been generally assumed (by many people) that they don't grow on roads just because no one has ever mentioned seeing it happen in those discussions before. I've simply removed the reference to them not growing on roads for now. It makes sense that they could though, because a road does not destroy a forest when it is built like other improvements do.
Click to expand...

Actually I've disputed the myth before in an earlier discussion:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3263314&postcount=44
 
I've now verified this. I set the forest growth to an insane percentage just to test it and found that they do indeed grow over roads. Thanks for pointing that out Blkbird! :)
 
Well, I can't reproduce it, so I'll just retract my claim that cities can spread irrigation without Civil Service. If I discover any actual evidence for that, then I'll post it here. Sorry for the mistaken claim.
 
One more remark regarding forest chopping: You can actually start chopping "in advance", e. g. before the city has been founded. If after you've started but before you've finished chopping, a city is founded (or acquired) by you which would deserve the hammers due to a close distance, the hammers will go to your new city, and the amount of hammers will also be adjusted as if the chopping had started after the city's founding.
 
Of course, it's because the game calculates how many hammers you get on the turn you finish chopping. If you start chopping while building, and then switch to a wonder before you finish chopping, and have double wonder production, then you get double the hammers from the chop even if you started the chop before starting the wonder. It's the same reason; the bonus is calculated at the end of the chop. That "30 hammers for _______" in the rollover before you start is just an estimate based on the calculations for that turn. It can always end up being different if the conditions change.
 
This is an outstanding piece of work Stuporstar, and will no doubt be among the first references included when the Civ4 War Academy opens its doors. Thanks for your hard work.
 
Jungle/Floodplain: Health value is can be a big deal when placing your cities. A city surrounded by jungles or floodplains will become unhealthy very quickly. Researching Iron Working will give your workers the ability to cut down jungles. The other advantage/disadvantage to building on a floodplain is the very rapid growth. In the early game, this can lead to unhealthiness and unhappiness very quickly. It's always great to have 2 or three floodplain tiles near your city, but settling right in the middle of a large stretch of floodplains will not only cause your cities to grow out of control, but will be very poor on production. Consider not building farms on floodplains right away if you need to control your growth. In the later game, these cities will make great GP (great people) generators.
Click to expand...

In my previous game I had a couple of cities with 4-5 flood plains each. I irrigated them all and set the city to maximize food production. I went into slavery and the cities became production centers. I believe the unhappiness is cumulative but only in the length of time the 1 citizen stays unhappy, i.e. if you rush two things one citizen is unhappy for 2x whatever turns, 2 are not unhappy for x turns. Luckily I had a few hills to mine so once I left slavery the city wasn't too poor at hammers.
 
Stuporstar said:
I've now verified this. I set the forest growth to an insane percentage just to test it and found that they do indeed grow over roads. Thanks for pointing that out Blkbird! :)
Click to expand...

I've been asked by someone if the road is destroyed when a forest grows on the tile. The answer is of course no, but I can see why it's not obvious. Maybe you want to add this information to the guide.
 
I was trying to chop-rush a library for a newly captured city, and the chopping ended at the same time as the resistance (both at the end of the same turn). To my complete shock, the hammers were not added to the city's production, they were done - to nowhere! So I know now, never finish chopping before the resistance ends. I retried with chopping one turn later (still starting during the resistance), and everything was fine then.

You may want to add this particular info to the guide.
 
Speaking of resistance, there is another trick I've learned: Specify what you want to build in a city *before* the resistance ends, don't wait for the game to prompt you. That way, in the turn the resistance ends, it will start producing already. You get one turn of production more for that city.
 
Blkbird said:
I was trying to chop-rush a library for a newly captured city, and the chopping ended at the same time as the resistance (both at the end of the same turn). To my complete shock, the hammers were not added to the city's production, they were done - to nowhere! So I know now, never finish chopping before the resistance ends. I retried with chopping one turn later (still starting during the resistance), and everything was fine then.
Click to expand...

Chopping never happens at the end of a turn: it happens during the turn, when your workers perform their action. If you have ordered all of your other units to move, and you click the end-turn button, then the remaining workers with pending orders do their actions at that time, but this is before anything else.
 
Blkbird said:
I believe the granary doesn't have that effect immediately after it's built, but needs to *filled* first. For example, if our granary has been finished last turn, and in this turn the city population grows, then the granary will not be half-full, but empty. However it starts to fill up, and when the city population grows *again*, it will remain half-full then.

Can anyone varify this?
Click to expand...

From what I've read elsewhere, when a granary is completed, it starts accumulating half of the food produced from that point in time, until the first population growth, and that much is rolled over. So if you complete the granery right after a growth, after the next growth it will retain 50%. If you complete it halfway through a growth, after the first growth the granary will just rollover 25%. If you complete it just before a growth, nothing will rollover (or very little). After that first growth, then the granary will always rollover 50% of the food in future growths, as expected.

This makes it less critical to get the granary finished before the city grows, so there is less need for micromanagement.

Keith
 
zienth said:
From what I've read elsewhere, when a granary is completed, it starts accumulating half of the food produced from that point in time, until the first population growth, and that much is rolled over. So if you complete the granery right after a growth, after the next growth it will retain 50%. If you complete it halfway through a growth, after the first growth the granary will just rollover 25%. If you complete it just before a growth, nothing will rollover (or very little). After that first growth, then the granary will always rollover 50% of the food in future growths, as expected.

This makes it less critical to get the granary finished before the city grows, so there is less need for micromanagement.
Click to expand...

Yes, meanwhile I can confirm this is what I've been experiencing in my game. Right after the completion of the granary, every food produced is stored in half, regardless when the next growth will be happening.
 
Great article. One thing seems to be missing, I don't see the possible terrain types for Gems listed in the "Resources and Terrain Types". Am I just not seeing them, or are they missing?

Keith
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Predator145
Obsolete strategic resources
Replies
11
Views
331
Sakharov
S
amateurgamer88
AG's Yields Reduction Mod (AGYRM) Guide
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
amateurgamer88
amateurgamer88
The_J
Old World update #120
Replies
8
Views
1K
The_J
The_J
D
Civ2 MGE several fixes and additions with support for music tracks
2 3
Replies
46
Views
2K
Buck2005
B
Predator145
Ancient Forts from Kyriakos' city graphics
Replies
2
Views
555
Predator145
Predator145
Top Bottom