LotR18 No Cottage Challenge

So, we're on a Custom_Continents map, standard-size, normal speed, Prince difficulty. Everything else is random -- temperature, sea level, # of continents, etc. I've seen both pangeas and island chains with this setting. I like the randomness of it. But it does make things a bit crazy sometimes.

Here's a picture of our starting land.



Please make comments/suggestions. That whale down south intrigues me, as does the plains hill (the only non-2/1 start square -- it's a 2/2). Since we're so near water, though, a decision of some sort will need to be made. Our scout won't be able to see much more during his move, so we're pretty well stuck deciding based off of what we have here.

Arathorn

set lurk mode: on.

BotlGnomz said:

set lurk mode: on.

Click to expand...

So have I...

interesting...

where to settle? On the spot?
We can irrigate 4 grass tiles for 3f each. The forest chops will give us an advantage early on for 90 shields that can be used towards settlers + worker
the whale will be eventually within our borders.

all the water will give us eventually 2f + 3s

The plains will be 1f for a long time unless we settle on the hill (and would be able to irrigate)

If we move 1 tile east to settle we might be lucky to get a fish/crab/clam that might be in the fog. And still have 4 grass tiles and enjoy the hill shields?

Maybe I think east would be a good move, go for BW as soon as possible to start a worker to match the tech and use the chop forest to get ahead.
Start a warrior first though for some added defense

I hate wasting a forest by settling on it. The other option is to throw away +2 health by missing the fresh water. I'll probably move NE first and see what that reveals. Can always move back south and end by the water. Don't really want to waste those pigs, either.

With no other comments, though, I think I'll start playing this one.

Arathorn

I don't like moving to the plains hill because we'll loose the sheep which might be our only food bonus. As for the whale, the only way i see to get it into the city radius is to settle on the sheep which is not good. Since the tech that allows to connect whales is a long way up the tech tree i would not move closer to it assuming that we'll expand our culture fast enough to grab it when we know optics. But i may be wrong here and maybe it does make sence to move one step closer. Of course the scout should move first and then maybe we'll see some other good tiles.

I think that early growth is good even for civ4, so i would go for a worker first and research the worker techs. Assuming there are no other good tiles around Moscow we need to research Animal Husbandry (to build pasture on the sheep) and Bronze Working (for chop-rushing). These techs are also good because BW allows to see copper and AH allows to see horses and leads to Writing->CoL which is our long-term goal. I would research BW before AH, because otherwise some worker turns will be wasted during the time after the worker has completed the pasture already but we still don't know BW (alternatively we can mine some hills during that time). So i would chop the forest while researching AH and then build a pasture ASAP. Since we have what seems to be a low food start, it would be nice to direct forest chops into food (settlers/workers) and grow as much as possible, so i would use the trick that i found in the strategy forum of switching production to settler/worker only on the turn of the chop and building something else during the rest of time (propably warriors that can be used for exploration and later for cheap MP). I think it makes sense to produce another worker too before the settler, because in civ4 unimproved tiles are much weaker then improved ones, especially the bonus tiles, and i like to have a worker ready to build improvements on bonus tiles for the new city immidiately after settling.

Well, I went with an entirely different plan. I'm not sure I like it, though.

I moved NE to see what I could see, with the settler. The scout's move NW to the hill revealed nothing. Recommended spot were original spot or plains hill NW again. I decided we could cram a second city down by the sheep, so I moved NW again. That extra shield (err...hammer) early is quite nice. I thought I saw corn there, too, so I started researching Agriculture.

Turns out it was sugar, not corn. Sigh. Built a warrior, then a scout, then one turn of barracks before starting our worker at size 2. Scout popped a goodie hut for cash early. Kept exploring.

Second scout popped yet another scout (making 3) in 3360. Who gets tech from huts? Not me -- at least, only VERY rarely.

One of our scouts in the west meets Bismarck in 3280. Hatty shows up in 3000 BC. They're both quite a ways west. Found Egypt's homeland, but the most direct route to us is cut off by water. We're on some kind of connected archipelago-turned-pangea map, it appears. I mean, we can go a LONG ways, but there's all kinds of water all over the place. So far, the east has been free of opponents.

"When Animals Attack" became the hit TV show in Russia around 3280 BC. I've seen the question asked about panthers. Well, they definitely do exist.



Fortunately, they're no match for our scout. I'm sure being on a forested hill was just a coincidence that didn't help our chances at all.

More panthers and lions and even some wolves towards the end. Our scouts killed them all. The western two scouts are now Woodsman I but need healing before continued exploration.

We got more gold from another hut. 3 huts -- gold twice and a scout. There may well be others around.

Anyway, back at Moscow, we finished the worker, who went to chop some forests by the river to get some hammers (and some higher food squares). One chop completed so far, sent to the settler, while producing another warrior to watch over potential city sites. Another warrior queued to help Moscow get to size 3. Worker irrigating with that in mind, too.

We're working on researching the wheel, oh-so-very-slowly. Commerce? We don't need no steenkin' commerce. And we have very little, too -- basically what the palace produces (8).

I feel like these opening turns were very sub-optimal. I don't know how to do them better, though. Settling in place was probably the best option, but it just didn't feel right at the time.

Anyway, I did at least get a lot of exploring done.

The north (and mostly east)


The south (and mostly west, as east is water)


BTW, is there any way to make the "fog of war" less oppressively dark? I understand dimming some, but I can't tell the difference between land and water without mouse-over, let alone land types. The info is all there, because you can mouse-over and get it, but that's extremely tedious.

So, you can see I have a couple of potential city-sites mapped. I think we should push west early, as the north is pretty wide open at this point. A good food source may well be first priority and Moscow can become a good unit factory, I believe. One of the lighter red dots to the north would be my choice, with the other dot a later fill-in type dot, when we get around to it. It's valuable (2+ resources), but we won't lose the spot.

Roster:
Arathorn
ThERat -- UP NOW
Obormot -- on deck
Speaker
Jabah

Arathorn

Arathorn, agree with moving NE to see whether there is anything interesting, likewise the scout should move NW to see beyond those hills.

And, Obormot, I was exactly advocating your thoughts about chops and using them for workers/settlers. That's the way to go for Civ4 starts (and here we got plenty of forest). I also agree with the starting techs AH and BW, I would go for BW first to be able to chop.

ok, forget about my comments then. I would settle west next near rice and fish. By the way, how many turns do we all take? 15 or 10?

Sorry. ThERat, take 20. Then 10 for everybody else. I took 30 to start.

As for comments, please make them. Better opening play is something I feel I really need to work on. If nobody points out the flaws, how will I learn? Trial-and-error can take a long time...and I'm just not groking the start right now. In retrospect, I believe my start was ... sub-optimal, to be diplomatic. But I'm not sure how much of that is hindsight and how much I could/should have known at the time.

Arathorn

Well, i don't think this opeining was worse then mine. At least we got more fertile land and that is nice. Researching Agriculture definitely wasn't a waste even though it sugar and not corn since we wan't farms and not cottages anyway. I prefer building the worker at size 1, but this is just a matter of taste, it doesn't change the outcome much. We need those water resources soon for the commerce. I would research fishing next and chop a work boat in the new city. I would rather settle the one near the fish and get rice later. Then chop an obelisk and expand to rice. I don't agree on leaving the other dot for backfilling, the position is nice and i would like to settle it ASAP. The variant seems to be hurting in the early game much more then in the late game, so every coin counts. Another good commerce site (though very far away) is near those furs. But i think it is worth going that far. It also looks like Calendar is a good tech for us (incense and sugar), so that is another argument to take Math->Currency path to CoL rather then Priesthood one.

And, Obormot, I was exactly advocating your thoughts about chops and using them for workers/settlers. That's the way to go for Civ4 starts (and here we got plenty of forest). I also agree with the starting techs AH and BW, I would go for BW first to be able to chop.

Click to expand...

I think it actually depends on the starting position. With high-food, low shield starts i would do exactly opposite trick and convert food to shields rather then shields to food. Espesially on higher levels with just 4 happy faces. Sorry for the offtop. BTW, how many happy faces are default for Prince level? Never played it before. Moved straight to Emperor after playing an extremely boring game on Noble.

save

Pre-Turn
hmm, the worker is irrigating, think early in the game we should chop all the way for workers/settler
wake up the worker to send to forest next turn

1. 2760BC
worker moves onto forest

2. 2720BC
worker starts to chop, and a scout ends up next to a lion, while our warrior near the capital spots a stron bear

3. 2680BC
well, the lion loses, we get a warrior and build is settler, so the forest chop will go into the settler

4. 2640BC
scout in the north stomp onto a mountian devide, which will block Germany a little
the hammers has gone into the settler, switch back to rax so we can continue to grow

5. 2600BC
we get the wheel, choiceas are mysticism, fishing for that fish, archery and AH, go for that to reveal the horses
a scout survives an encounter with a lion
our capital has grown to pop 3 and worker jumps on another forest

6. 2560BC
again, worker start to chop
by the way, we have 2 commerce now with the river commerce as well

7. 2520BC
swap back to settler now

8. 2480BC
forest chop is done and settler will be ready next turn
there is a wolf and that bear still near our city, but I play defensively without archers

9. 2440BC
hungry wolf attacked our arrior on a hill and of course didn't make it
settler goes into position, decide to irrigate now a tile while on rax
stare at our city screen and then then screen goes blank, thanks so much, at least I got the autosave option
on 2 turns, but a complete crash in such early times isn't great, didn't have that for a while
(load autosave from 2480BC)

10. 2400BC
found St. Petersburg and start a rax for now

11. 2360BC
first tile irrigated, we need to chop more for faster workers

12. 2320BC
worker climbs hill for another chop, our scouts are reaching the last limits of the continent, and one is promoted woodsman II

13. 2280BC
worker starts chop on hill, rax will be done next turn anyway

14. 2240BC
one of our scoyts is eating up by a bear, though I moved him away from bear, the border expansion of Egypt via city settleing
had shifted him on grass next to bear

15. 2200BC
AH is in, short detour for fishing to grab the fish
don't want to spil the mood, but horses are really far off in the west

16. 2160BC
worker now starts to mine hill
spot another horse source all the way in the NW, well....

17. 2120BC
zzzz

18. 2080BC
one of the scouts gets redlined

19. 2040BC
Fishing is in, it's either sailing, writing or archery. Since we need some added defense IMHO, go for archery
suggest then writing and CoL, since we can now work the fish (2f + 2g) research drops by 1 turn
we also have another worker, we need a settler next but would like to grow a little as well
swap St. Petersburg to work boat, mine is done
new worker goes to St. Petersburg to chop the forest on plains for fast work boat and then irrigation

20. 2000BC
the scout moving back towards our land busting fog actually spots another hut, that can be popped next turn

I suggest to build another settler next in Moskow for settling the south
in order to secure one religion I would go full steam for CoL after archery


a few pictures about our situation:

horses where are thou? can you spot those 2 sources


our homeland


the scout in the north next to a hut, note the horses there as well

Just a quick hello to say I am leaving for the WE right now, will not be able to play before Monday. I will be able to comment (from work) during Monday before playing.

have fun

Jabah

Arathorn said:

Sorry. ThERat, take 20. Then 10 for everybody else. I took 30 to start.

Click to expand...

30-20-15 and then 10 apiece will keep the turn numbers more even. At least on Normal speed. I'm probably going to make that the RB SG standard.


- Sirian

Even/natural turn numbers are good. I'll take that suggestion.

Obormot, play 15. -- UP NOW
Speaker is on deck.

Arathorn

At least on Normal speed

Click to expand...

Are you guys playing on Epic speed or Normal speed ?

Normal speed, for now, at least.

Arathorn

BotlGnomz said:

set lurk mode: on.

Click to expand...

Certainly, these are the best games around.

@Zavior
Clearly.

@TheRat
How did you get the turns until growth/production done to appear?