Matt's Mormon Thread

It appears, that after taking a gander at the scientoligist thread (which transformed into a Mormon beatdown), that a lot of folks think they know what "mormons do and do not believe", and throw it around. Thats not uncommon. most of you guys prob dont know any Mormons in real life, and some pastors and professors give out infomation thats flat out wrong.

I wont surgarcoat anything. If you have a question, id be more than happy to answer it, or find a place where you can get the answer if I dont know.

Im not going to sit here and try and convice people that my church is best, or try to *prove* anything. I'll be honest, and forthright. I cant *prove* anything. There is a little scientific data, produced by respected scholars from groups you may or may not accept...but that isnt enough, and i know that. if you could prove something with science, it wouldnt survive as a religion.

I also think that most of you know that I do not have a scientific background. I'll post a few links, i'll try to answer questions about them the best I can, but i cant promise much. My background is in political science and music. I never post in science threads, and i even rarely post in theological ones.

possible book of mormon evidence? http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_BMEvidence.shtml

LDS FAQ- http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/index.html

Offical Mormon webpage www.lds.org

I hope im not opening the gates for a flame war...but if you have a *question* (please, not an attack.), i'll do my best

I only have one question:

Have you seen the South Park episode about Mormons and what did you think of it?

Very brave, Matt, very brave.

De Lorimier said:

I only have one question:

Have you seen the South Park episode about Mormons and what did you think of it?

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haha, i have seen it. in fact, it was my understanding that there were more than one. I thought it was funny. Certainly, i have to have a rather thick skin about jokes about my faith right?

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to them the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." (Rev 22: 18-19) Why then change or add to the divinely inspired word of God?

ybbor said:

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to them the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." (Rev 22: 18-19) Why then change or add to the divinely inspired word of God?

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thats a good question. I hope you can find the answer here http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Bible.shtml#add

i think its the second one down. i'd rather not cut and paste the whole thing in here, because its over a page.

Nice idea for a thread.
I must admit I know very very little about the Mormon religion, and basically everything I know comes from second hand sources and stereotypes. Some of those "stereotypical beliefs" always struck me as quite odd, so I'd like to ask if they are true. If what I'm asking is absurd please don't get offended.

1-is it true that Mormons think that the USA is the actuall promissed land?
2-Is it true that Mormons think that native americans are the lost 13th tribe of Israel?
3-Is it true that Mormons think that dark skinned people are beign punished by God?(for some cause which I forgot)

My former forensics coach is mormon, along with about a quarter of my school, so I know plenty of Mormons.

luiz said:

Nice idea for a thread.
I must admit I know very very little about the Mormon religion, and basically everything I know comes from second hand sources and stereotypes. Some of those "stereotypical beliefs" always struck me as quite odd, so I'd like to ask if they are true. If what I'm asking is absurd please don't get offended.

1-is it true that Mormons think that the USA is the actuall promissed land?
2-Is it true that Mormons think that native americans are the lost 13th tribe of Israel?
3-Is it true that Mormons think that dark skinned people are beign punished by God?(for some cause which I forgot)

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from what I have read and heard, yes. or they used to, then they changed it because they realized how ridiculous that sounded.

luiz said:

Nice idea for a thread.
I must admit I know very very little about the Mormon religion, and basically everything I know comes from second hand sources and stereotypes. Some of those "stereotypical beliefs" always struck me as quite odd, so I'd like to ask if they are true. If what I'm asking is absurd please don't get offended.

1-is it true that Mormons think that the USA is the actuall promissed land?
2-Is it true that Mormons think that native americans are the lost 13th tribe of Israel?
3-Is it true that Mormons think that dark skinned people are beign punished by God?(for some cause which I forgot)

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1) from what i understood, its the entire american continent...north, central and south
2) to be totally honest, i dont think there is a consistant church docterine on this. I *think* yes, but id have to check more.
3) *no*. its a fair question to ask, and i'll admit that the church has not had the most enlightend policy on race in the past. but that is not the case. All men are equal before the lord

So what's with the whole polygamy thing...

Do you believe physically or symbolically in the magic spectacles that Joseph Smith supposedly used to understand the word of God? Isn't it more probable that he had a psychotic episode or ate some funny mushrooms?

And yes, I know some Mormons. In fact I grew up with a friend who was Mormon...

I have to say there is one thing I admire the Mormons for, it is for trying to archive every birth act they can find. I don't care very much about the theological motives behind that, it's just the fact that these are valuable documents, and the Mormons preserve them very well, and they are public, meaning everybody can access that huge goldmine.
I remember hearing some stupid guy in France telling the stupid journalist during the stupid evening news that the Mormons were "stealing" our archives. This is completely false. They are merely copying the records, they do that for no money, and very often they will even give copies to the French archives, thus allowing to preserve the original document.
I just wanted to set that straight because a lot of French are itchy about religious people meddling in public affairs, but on that specific point the mormons are doing a great job and actually helping preserve our history

Perfection said:

So what's with the whole polygamy thing...

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haha, saw this one coming.
First, let it be known to the world that the Mormon church DOES NOT practice polygamy. I have a dad and a Mom. I only have one girlfriend. We havent been doing this for over 150 years.

im not sure exactly why the practice was re-instated for a time in the 1800's (i say reinstated because there are mentions of in it in the bible)....but the church was more than happy to comply when the US goverment told them to stop.

there is an essay on polygamy on one of the links...i think *here* http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Facet.shtml

eyrei said:

Do you believe physically or symbolically in the magic spectacles that Joseph Smith supposedly used to understand the word of God? Isn't it more probable that he had a psychotic episode or ate some funny mushrooms?

And yes, I know some Mormons. In fact I grew up with a friend who was Mormon...

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a psychotic episode? I find it doubtful, given that there were more of them...and there were indeed plates burried where Moroni told him to dig. (whether these plates contained the "word of god" in the book of mormon is up for theological debate. however, there were plates. there are 12 eyewittness accounts of them)

As a Mormon, while i may find many parts of scripture to be symbolically true as opposed to litteraly (such as parts of the Genesis story), i believe that the first vision (Where Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus), actually happened.

MattBrown said:

a psychotic episode? I find it doubtful, given that there were more of them...and there were indeed plates burried where Moroni told him to dig. (whether these plates contained the "word of god" in the book of mormon is up for theological debate. however, there were plates. there are 12 eyewittness accounts of them)

As a Mormon, while i may find many parts of scripture to be symbolically true as opposed to litteraly (such as parts of the Genesis story), i believe that the first vision (Where Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus), actually happened.

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The fact that there were more of them is actually good evidence for it being a form of psychosis, at least by the accepted definitions.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not an atheist, and I'm really only asking these questions because I enjoy theology and so am mildly curious.

Are the plates intact? If so, where are they, and do they actually have words written on them, or is that where the spectacles came in?

Also, does this qualify as 'spreading the word'?

MattBrown said:

haha, saw this one coming.
First, let it be known to the world that the Mormon church DOES NOT practice polygamy. I have a dad and a Mom. I only have one girlfriend. We havent been doing this for over 150 years.
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Not quite true - it's more like 100 years (IIRC 1894 was when it was outlawed so that Utah could become a state). The early Mormon church "reinstated" polygamy because it was a quick way to promote population growth, something the small early Mormon church wanted in order to maintain their political hold on the Utah/Deseret region.

They own Safeway, hence my boycott.

Sims2789 said:

They own Safeway, hence my boycott.

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Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. Eyrei.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

lets not forget that masicher *forgot its name*

the mormons whear allied with native americans, and a wagon train was passing throw morman lands. the natives atacked it, but the mormons came to the wagon train and offed them a deal, if thay hand over ther guns, and half ther suplies thay will get the natives to let them go. so the setliers agree. thay have the men blind folded, as to suposedly not give ther location away, and marched them off. the wemen and kids whear taken another way.. the thang is. the men, now with no guns, whear lead off and killed by the mormons.