RB6 - Island Hopping

[Sirian]

This is a Realms Beyond SG. RB rules apply.


My apologies to the members of this roster for delays beyond my control. Those are over now, so I hope you are all still with me as we move forward with what should be a fun adventure.


Difficulty: Noble
Map Script: Islands (Several Extras, Various Tinies)
Map Size: Standard
Civ: France (Louis)

Variant Rules: None
Victory: Any, but Diplomatic will be pursued.


RB6 ROSTER:

Sirian
Anjinsan
Zagaz
Jkaen
Garath

Alternates:
* Arhiss
* Sadan


I'll be back in a while with the first turn log.


- Sirian

[Sirian]

OK, guys. Taking attendance.

If you are on the roster, please check in with a "Here" post. Thanks!

Anjinsan will be up after my first turn, unless for any reason he can't go, in which case we'll throw Zagaz to the wolves in his place.


So here is our starting situation.





OK, that is indeed a Tundra/Hills plot to our southwest. Brr. Our lands be chillin'. We R Sutherners. Hi, my name is Bobby Brian.

(We need a Snowflake smiley or something. Thunderfall? Hehe. You reading this?)


So I will play the first thirty, to 2800BC. Then next up will play twenty, to 2000BC, then fifteen (to I forget when, but I'll check on it.) Then it's ten per player from there on out.

Not sure if I will have my turn up shortly, or some time after 8PM EST. Will be one or the other!


Welcome all team members and lurkers to this fun and light-hearted adventure. Please have a seat. The waitress be with you shortly to take your order. (You know. Like, this is I-HOPpers? ... Right. DUMB joke. Sorry! ... Get used to it, though. Hehe.)


- Sirian

[Garath]

Checking in, last though I am on the roster.

I think that's the first start I've ever seen with NO resources visible at the start whatsoever. It's gonna be a slow start we've got here... maybe that'll compensate for it only being on Noble.

Pending whether the presumed warrior move to the hill to his SE reveals anything, I guess it's a tricky decision whether to move the settler or not. I don't have any experience of such weak starts to know how much it would impact us to settle on the spot, but moving to the plains hill W of the settler would give us the extra shield and reclaim the grass forest it stands on now. On the other hand, it would lose us the fresh water bonus and the turn spent getting there, and with no resources in view we may sorely miss the health bonus if we do.

Fairly irrelevant as all that is since Sirian's already started playing, I might as well shut up now.

--Garath

[Sirian]

Originally Posted by Garath

Pending whether the presumed warrior move to the hill to his SE reveals anything, I guess it's a tricky decision whether to move the settler or not.

Not really. The vast majority of map scripts, including this one, have up to eight different functions aimed at "normalization" of starting locations (upgrades to the tiles in the area). One of these functions is Add Bonuses, which will ensure at least one Health bonus in the initial 21 radius.

The food is there. You just don't see it yet.

(It has to be there. This map has Add Bonuses enabled.)

One of the reasons for a relatively poor initial terrain is that this map requires all starts to occur along the coast. Thus all potentially lucrative inland starting plots are disqualified, and it will pick the best one on your island that is touching the ocean. When you get a look at the rest of our island you will understand why it put us here.

Now that Silks... THAT is probably from the Add Bonuses function.

The last time I saw a no-food-bonus start was on Great Plains (which has seven of the eight "normalize" functions disabled.)

In 99% of cases, you won't go wrong by simply settling in your start location and taking what's there. I admit, though, that there are times when moving can produce some benefit. It has to be a LOT, though, to warrant burning turns to do it.


This type of info is one of the side benefits (or curses?) of playing with the mapmaker.

[Sirian]

4000BC: Paris is founded.



The food that had to be there... is there. Sheep!


Now the most interesting part of the game: the Opening Strategy.
There are six tech choices, and each offers a different path.

* Mysticism: religion race, early Stonehenge push (we ARE Industrious!)
* Fishing: early Sailing push, early galleys, or workboats for exploration.
* Pottery: early Granary (very much a niche selection, but viable for Exp leaders).
* Hunting: early Archery push, collect Deer or Ivory, build Scouts.
* Mining: mine one of our Plains Hills for faster worker/settler building.
Mining also leads to Bronze Working: reveal metals, chop forests, maybe stronger units.

Mining -OR- Mysticism enables Masonry: Pyramids, Great Lighthouse, collect stone/marble.

* Animal Husbandry: the choice I selected. Collect Sheep! Reveal Horses. Fastest access to Writing.

I don't tend to choose Worker First production -- I like to let a city grow a bit.
This city, however, is so short on surplus food that it needs immediate attention.


We should, at some early point, capitalize on our Industrious trait and build some wonders!

Being Creative, though, blunts the usefulness of Stonehenge.
It's still a very cheap early wonder to start cranking Great People Points, though.

Great Lighthouse or Pyramids might be better for that, though.

I take advantage of the early-game "grace period" of no barbarians and go scouting.


3880BC: We have found Deer. (And lots of Tundra! )



This is going to be a "harder than average" Noble game, I think.
Sorry, guys! I took the first map it handed us. Should be fun, though.
There is still PLENTY that can be done with a homeland like this!


3680BC: We find Clams, more Deer, and plenty more Tundra and Ice! (Um... yay?)




3640BC: I pop that hut and the locals spin us yarns...
... about "endless floating ice at sea, that we sometimes walk upon."



Um... yeah. Thanks guys. (Those are some kooky people, there!)


3600BC: Buddhism is FIDAL. (Founded In a DistAnt Land)



Good thing we didn't go chasing that!

Ooh, check this out. We have found two corn sources near the foggy region.




3520BC: More Sheep in the west!



(This almost surely means the ones at Paris were naturally there, not fudged by the start plot normalizer.)

Hinduism is FIDAL. Man. They sucked those up as fast as possible!

Good thing we didn't go chasing early religion. What a fruitless waste that would have been!

Spain on a Lake(TM) this is not!

[Sirian]

After learning Animal Husbandry, I started on Fishing, heading for Sailing.

(That one-tile island north of Paris is intriguing. If we can cross over to another Large Island...!)

3360BC: Although I rarely moving through a forest without building a road...
...our need for FOOD is urgent. I move the pasture builders post-haste!



We have Horses nearby!

We could build Chariots if we hook those up. Very strong early unit, same price as Archers.

Two extra food and an extra gold for the Pasture. Will be done in four turns.


3320BC: Snow Lions.



You can LOSE your scouts if you end turns in the open and animals attack.

We are in the forest, though: a sure win for us.



Sticking to forests/jungles as much as possible while exploring keeps explorers alive a lot longer!
Also lets them heal faster after fights (because wounds are not as severe!)

3240BC: Our investing in Worker First begins to pay back High Yield(TM) dividends.




3080BC: Paris reaches size 2!



The governor wanted to run the Silks plot (which is a better net yield) but I disagree.
I want max food, so I order the gover to Emphasize Food for the moment.

Guys, PLEASE pay attention to such things. At some point, it will be vital to cancel that order!

We trained a second Warrior. I send him exploring eastward.
Paris starts a Workboat.
Useful for exploration and sure to be usable as a Fishing Nets at an early city.
Paris is also about to pop its borders again. Yay for Creative.

Note the build choices. All of them have something going for them.
Each has something valid and useful to offer.
The key to making good strategy is to coordinate your choices toward a larger goal.

[Mike Lemmer]

Does this mean we could see... a religionless start?

[Sirian]

There is a second Tribal Village out there, west of Paris.



Also some Wolves. Our workers are safe from animals inside our borders, though.


3000BC: Our eastern Warriors reach the coast and find... FISHIES! Yay!



That spot the warriors are standing would make for a good east coast city.
Horses and Fishes. Lots of water, too: weak producer, strong commercially.
Fish can feed a lot of slaves. (Slavery will surely be our Labor Civic of choice!)


2880BC: Possible crossover from our land to another Large Island, to our east.



Calls for naval exploration. (Thus my push for Sailing. Let's see what's out there!)
(After we settle some choice spots on the homeland, of course.)


2840BC: Our western warriors arrive back home and visit the local tribe.



Ooh, gold. Money money money. Cash is always good!

That is also an ideal spot for a city.
It will be useful to keep barbs from popping up, so I fortify that unit there.


2800BC: Our workers complete the first Farm.



One cool thing about Civ4 is not HAVING to build roads everywhere.
I often do anyway, for mobility purposes, but in this case...
...We need the food faster! So I skip the road...
...and move west across the river, to start another Farm!


So that's it. I've played my thirty.

Our homeland is MOSTLY ICE. However, we have enough to get by.



Lots of Health resources. Extras for trading purposes.
Our team goal is diplomatic victory! So lots of trading is in our future.

* Four Deer
* Four Fish (one not shown at Blue Dot -- buggy display??)
* Two Corn
* Two Sheep
* Silks
* Horses
* Other Seafood

Could be some metals out there, too. We should hope so!

The sea can feed a lot of people, especially when Food bonuses are involved.

Here is my DotMap(TM) suggestion:



Note that solid dots are suggested city sites.
Circles are resources that would tie to the city of that color!

Pink Dot(TM) is the best remaining site on our island.
It's low on production but very high on food.
Settling there first would be the "Santa Rosa" move of this SG.

Blue Dot pulls a Fish and Horses. Not a strong producer there, either.
We might consider going there soonish, though, for the Horses!
(We can, for instance, delay Archery if we have Chariots.)

Yellow and Orange dots are strong "snowy" cities.
Both have two food bonuses in range, plus assorted forests and hills.
Those cities will be surprisingly strong despite the barren lands. Wait and see!

Green Dot is a worthwhile, but weakish, city site. One corn, some fertile plots, some sea.
Not a high priority site! I'd grab Pink and Blue first. Heck, maybe Yellow too? Maybe.

White Dot is not ripe to decide. I showed two possible locations.
The island site would waste the four plots inside the red rectangle...
...but it would pull in a lot more sea plots.
If a resource is out there, the island will be better.
If not, the mainland alternative could be worthwhile.
We should explore more before deciding!

Normally, terrain lends itself to multiple "good and valid" dotmaps, but this terrain is kind of picky.
I doubt there is much of an alternative to the plan I've presented.
That big red zone in the middle of the continent is dead space.
Sometimes you've got to know when to waste some low-yield plots!


Anyway, if you guys are all agreeable, we can adopt this dotmap.
Then you can settle any of these valid locations in an order and timing that fits in to your turns.

We also want to explore off the mainland (with ships) and build wonders.

LOTS of possible paths. Up to the next player to make the next round of choices.


RB6 ROSTER:

Sirian
Anjinsan ----- UP NOW!
Zagaz ------- On Deck
Jkaen
Garath


- Sirian

[Arhiss]

Alternate reporting for lurki.... err duty!

Looks like a very interesting start so far, though far too much tundra for my tastes. Usually on a start like this I start looking for early shipping to get my butt off the barren rock that I started on post haste

[Sadan01]

Second alternate checking in. At least we know we start at the bottom of the world in this game. This is going to be interesting!

[Sirian]

Did we lose track of our rookie team members?

I hope the guys are still checking the SG forum.


- Sirian

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I just wanted to take a moment to plug for "Sirian's Book of Civ4 Openings", because I think it would have a lot of great information, and because I wouldn't have to do any of the work

Questions:
1) Is the dot map mismarked? Aren't the deer directly above the snowtile at OrangeDot, rather than to the NW of Mountain-on-the-corner?
[Edit: Oh, I can look at the saved game myself to figure that out. nevermind.]

2) What's the plan for the sheep at West Point?

[Sirian]

Originally Posted by VoiceOfUnreason

Questions:
1) Is the dot map mismarked? Aren't the deer directly above the snowtile at OrangeDot, rather than to the NW of Mountain-on-the-corner?
[Edit: Oh, I can look at the saved game myself to figure that out. nevermind.]

2) What's the plan for the sheep at West Point?

1. Could be. There ARE two resources there, though, and four forests. A decent mix.

2. To put a city over there. Somewhere. Not on the sheep.


- Sirian

[Dimy]

Good luck guys, looks like a horrible starting position... but then again, it's only noble. Should give plenty of interesting read and challenges though.

[Garath]

Looking at your more detailed pictures in the turn report, Sirian, VoiceofUnreason is definitely correct: The deer at Orange Dot is immediately to its north, rather than at the location you've circled. I'd agree that that's still the best city location, though, with the forests and food.

As to the west of the continent, I was going to recommend the ice spot in the extreme SW until I noticed that Orange Dot has the crabs as well, but now I suggest that one north of that is probably better, since it claims three coast tiles to the north rather than three less useful ocean tiles to the south, and still leaves the forest to it's north usable. It's hardly vital to decide now, since there's no way we're getting to that site for some millennia yet.

Out of curiosity, how long were you intending to give the others to claim their spots before you start prodding people?
It would be nice to get a turn or two in before I visit my parents (who don't have a computer capable of running Civ4 last I checked) over Christmas.

--Garath

[Sirian]

I don't know how long to give them. It's kind of odd that none of the four have showed up yet. It was a long wait to get started, though, so I want to give them a little more time before I start to look for replacements. Hopefully they will check the boards and pay enough attention to thread titles to spot that the game has launched.


- Sirian

[Arathorn]

Might I recommend PMing them? Often seems to be a good way to get somebody's attention. Different style notification in an inbox, etc. <Shrug> Probably worth a shot.

Arathorn

[Sirian]

Originally Posted by Arathorn

Might I recommend PMing them?

Good idea! Thanks.

I've tried Arathorn's idea. If we don't hear from them by Wednesday, I'll open up their slots for others. (I hope that won't be necessary!)

PM-ing is not part of my normal routine. (Having to delete old messages to make room for new ones... blah. I'm an archivist. I save EVERYthing. So email is my big ticket.)


Also, I have to apologize to Garath. I don't have him flagged (in my mind) as a new person, although he is new to these SGs. (He was one of the early Civ3 Epics players... until they stopped supporting Mac with new patches!)

So we are only missing the three players.

If any of them fail to turn up, we'll move the Alternates to the main roster and look for some new Alternates. (Yikes. Does that put our Alternates in the awkward position of rooting for the main roster guys not to show up? Well, anyway, we'll just see how it goes.)


- Sirian

[Garath]

Apology accepted, although not necessary. I'd have spoken up if you'd actually tried to replace me, or if I was posting to say something else in the thread, but I didn't feel that merely correcting a number from four to three was important enough to post for.

To be honest it's more flattering to not be flagged as new, as it was a fair old time ago that I played those Epics, and only ever did play five, as I recall. I still want to play this one, though, so don't completely forget me! (Never did get to play that first Potluck game... Got one of those planned for Civ4, Sirian? It was a great concept, I thought. )

Wednesday sounds about right; if they're not checking the forum enough to even see PMs by then then I guess the game would just drag on so much that it's better to replace them anyway. Hopefully at least one'll turn up, then we can just fill in with the two alternates and get going.

--Garath

[weakciv]

well if alternates get used maybe I could jump in as an "alternate alternate".

If there are others ahead of me for those positions that is fine. Ill just keep on reading.