Run-off for government style

DaveShack

DaveShack

Inventor
Retired Moderator
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
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Location
Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
Flexible and Triumvirate (4.1) tied with 19 votes each. Alphawolf posted Triumvirate 5.0 and I added detail to Flexible (see last posts in thread) after the last vote came in.
Edit: To clarify, the "detail" I added was to describe what offices Flexible should start with, but Alphawolf's language and format for Triumvirate suited my purposes and is frankly pretty good, so I adapted that framework directly with cut & paste.

Now we need to have a runoff election. I would like to propose a 24 hour comment period followed by a 48 hour runoff poll. I will be on the road to Las Vegas at the correct time for posting a runoff, someone else needs to do it.

Here's what we need to do to start the game:
  • Hold the runoff for government style
  • Elections Track
    • If Triumvirate prevails, elect a Censor?
    • Finalize offices and duties before nominations start on Dec 22
    • 4 days of nominations and debate Dec 22-26
    • 3 days of elections Dec 27-30
  • Rules Track
    • Finalize rules in formal Code of Laws
    • Submit CoL for ratification Dec 26-30 (at the latest). CoL must have the same offices and duties as were finalized prior to Dec 22, or we may have to abort liftoff.
  • Game Track
    • Make all decisions relating to game start parameters
    • Make the "game starting" front page announcement
    • Hold Creation Day
 
Instead of a runoff, or added in to the runoff, can we also have the option of Tri+flex government please? It seems that a LOT of people would like to see that happen, myself included, and I do think it would stand a good chance of becoming a very powerful government type..
 
Gloriana said:
Instead of a runoff, or added in to the runoff, can we also have the option of Tri+flex government please? It seems that a LOT of people would like to see that happen, myself included, and I do think it would stand a good chance of becoming a very powerful government type..
Click to expand...

Both have flexibility at present, and Flexible should really be renamed to something more descriptive. I haven't done that to avoid confusing anyone.

The main difference is still whether the offices are hierarchical (Triumvirate) or flat (Flexible / Traditional). It doesn't seem to me that there can be any kind of compromise on that dichotomy. Either someone favors a hierarchy, or they don't.

My "unauthorized" update to the flexible government proposal makes it about 90% in common with Triumvirate, except for the hierarchical nature where it diverges 100%.
 
i still encurage all members of THe Party to vote Flexible. But I do agree that a new poll is necesary with just those 2 options along with an abstain.
 
DaveShack said:
I will be on the road to Las Vegas at the correct time for posting a runoff, someone else needs to do it.
Click to expand...

I'll post the poll in the wee hours of the morning.

-the Wolf
 
Alphawolf said:
DS forgot to mention that he basically lifted my government and just deleted parts of it. :mad: So vote for the original government, the Triumvirate.

-the Wolf
Click to expand...

No, I didn't forget to mention that. Look inside the post for the new proposal and you will see that I gave credit and even apologize for not checking with you first.
 
DaveShack said:
No, I didn't forget to mention that. Look inside the post for the new proposal and you will see that I gave credit and even apologize for not checking with you first.
Click to expand...

I meant in this thread, and if you're in Vegas what in the hell are you doing online, GO SOMEWHERE fun.

-the Wolf
 
I won't be in Vegas till tomorrow night (Sunday 6pm MST or so). That's the main reason there was so much time pressure to make a concrete "flat government" proposal today. I could have spent an hour more typing up something from scratch, but honestly don't have that much time with packing, buying last minute stuff for the trip, and cleaning house so we won't need to do it on Christmas Eve. :crazyeye:
 
I have to give my vote to the new tri. After seeing Daveshacks "Hybrid" All i saw was a less complete Triumvirate. The Triumvirate is the better defined, better thought out, better understood, and more completed governemnt. The part about adding new ooffices to the cabinet is in the Tri 5.0 and if it is expanded on a little bit in the "Rules Track" part. the new Tri is by far the more complete and better government for this demogame. And DaveShack, 4 SHAME!
 
Here is a slighty more realistic Roadmap


  • Hold the runoff for government style
    Elections Track
  • If Triumvirate prevails, elect a Censor?
  • Finalize offices and duties before nominations start on Dec 22
  • 4 days of nominations and debate Dec 22-26
  • 6 days of dicusstion and chilling,Dec 27 to Jan 2 so those of us with a RL can enjoy the holidays
  • Elections from Jan 3-6
    Rules Track
  • Finalize rules in formal Code of Laws
  • Submit CoL for ratification Dec 22-26 (at the latest). CoL must have the same offices and duties as were finalized prior to Dec 22, or we may have to abort liftoff.
    Game Track
  • Make all decisions relating to game start parameters
  • Make the "game starting" front page announcement
  • Hold Creation Day(Jan 7th, a saturday)
 
Swissempire said:
Here is a slighty more realistic Roadmap

  • Hold the runoff for government style
    Elections Track
  • If Triumvirate prevails, elect a Censor?
  • Finalize offices and duties before nominations start on Dec 22
  • 4 days of nominations and debate Dec 22-26
  • 6 days of dicusstion and chilling,Dec 27 to Jan 2 so those of us with a RL can enjoy the holidays
  • Elections from Jan 3-6
    Rules Track
  • Finalize rules in formal Code of Laws
  • Submit CoL for ratification Dec 22-26 (at the latest). CoL must have the same offices and duties as were finalized prior to Dec 22, or we may have to abort liftoff.
    Game Track
  • Make all decisions relating to game start parameters
  • Make the "game starting" front page announcement
  • Hold Creation Day(Jan 7th, a saturday)
Click to expand...

So the nominations just sit there for 10 days?

I have to resume work on Jan 2, so the Dec 27-31 time is the chilling time for me, however I'm just one example. :)
 
Swissempire said:
I have to give my vote to the new tri. After seeing Daveshacks "Hybrid" All i saw was a less complete Triumvirate. The Triumvirate is the better defined, better thought out, better understood, and more completed governemnt. The part about adding new ooffices to the cabinet is in the Tri 5.0 and if it is expanded on a little bit in the "Rules Track" part. the new Tri is by far the more complete and better government for this demogame. And DaveShack, 4 SHAME!
Click to expand...

You completely miss the point. I don't want hierarchical offices, where the tri offices are better than the cabinet offices. A vote for what I posted is a vote for all offices being at the same level, and against the game of "mother / father may I" represented by the tri.

Creating a derived work, when proper attribution is given (and it was), is totally normal. The only thing I didn't do is talk to Alphawolf first. Given my schedule and the game's schedule, this was the right thing to do. It's also my job as a council member to present the citizens with a properly framed choice.

If you want hierarchical government where some offices are inherently subordinate to other offices, then choose the tri.

If you want a non-hierarchical government where all offices are equal and don't have to subordinate themselves to others, then pick the flexible.
 
DaveShack said:
You completely miss the point. I don't want hierarchical offices, where the tri offices are better than the cabinet offices. A vote for what I posted is a vote for all offices being at the same level, and against the game of "mother / father may I" represented by the tri.
Click to expand...

I disagree the way I see it, I am new so i could be wrong, only the Director of Intelligence is actually under the control of the tri, the tri can't interfear. If anything the governor are the ones that can play around with the cabinet too much. I think the tri gives governors too much power with the "Governors Council".
 
DaveShack said:
Creating a derived work, when proper attribution is given (and it was), is totally normal. The only thing I didn't do is talk to Alphawolf first.
Click to expand...

I was only giving you grief for fun, I was actually flattered that you would use my set up, I just wished you would have asked first.

@Neanderthalnsis: you're right about the Director of Intelligence, but I don't think the governors have too much power.

-the Wolf
 
Alphawolf said:
I was only giving you grief for fun, I was actually flattered that you would use my set up, I just wished you would have asked first.
Click to expand...

That's what I was hoping, and I got the PM. ;) My response was actually to Swissempire, who seemed to be thinking you were serious about being mad about it. It's a good position to take in a role playing sense though, so I have no negative feelings toward either of you over it. :)
 
I wasn't actually being made, 4 shame is just like... i dunno umm... kinda like when you waggle your finger at someone while grinning broadly:crazyeye: . I guess i may have come off a bit rude, so umm sry. I had my minute changes to the nomination process, because a lot of people who would want to vote in the opening elections may not ha ve access to a computer, or may be having fun with family over the holiday. Its the holidays and i wanna spend it with my family, not just in front of a computer:D;)
 
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