Merz01 - Monarch OCC, Straight Up

So after the successful finish of the pseudo-3CC Prince culture game we were involved in (Zav04) me and Liq have decided to tackle Monarch OCC. I've tried Prince and Monarch OCC many times in private games and it is quite a challenge. I've beaten Prince but have yet to beat Monarch on OCC; I've come close though.

A requirement for anyone who wants to play this SG is to review this thread on Apolyton. It has grown to become the bible for dedicated Civ4 OCC players:

OCC (One City Challenge) at Monarch and above

Now, based on the unique challenges of higher-difficulty OCC, I'm going to suggest a grand strategy upfront, one that follows closely what the successful players on that thread claim is necessary to win. I've used this strategy to win at Prince:


1. Grab three required wonders - Pyramids, Oracle, and Great Library. Chop-rush them early with at least two workers.

2. After early worker techs, beeline to Alphabet, then Civil Service (for Bureaucracy), then Literature (Great Library), then Education (universities), then Liberalism (free tech), then Astronomy (observatory), then Computers (laboratory), then Fiber Optics (Internet). Perhaps deviate to Biology/Medicine if health is a problem.

3. Build the Internet after acquiring Fiber Optics. Consensus is that it's impossible to win Monarch+ OCC without doing this given the increased late-game tech costs introduced by the patches.

4. Join all GP to the city (except for an Academy and maybe one shrine). Specialists are the key to winning.


Now I'm certainly not requiring people to follow this strategy - I am a firm believer that players can do whatever they want in their SG turns. But if you want to deviate from this strategy I highly suggest bringing it up with the team before doing so.

We still need to decide on civ. Difficulty of course will be Monarch. Map will be the balanced map (normal size); it's really no fun to play OCC without crucial resources (and believe me we'll have a hard enough time as it is).

I suggest either Elizabeth for philosophical and financial, or Qi Shi Huang for industrious and financial. Suggestions? A high GP birth rate is very important, but so is getting those wonders (and the more the merrier past the required three).

How about five players? You can be an SG newbie but please be an experienced Civ4 player. After deciding on civ either me or Liq will roll up a start and play 30 turns, then it will be 15 turns per person afterward.

Also since Liq is a co-owner of this guy he's free to change/veto anything I've said here.

Difficulty: Monarch
Civ: To be discussed
Map: Balanced
Size: Standard
Variant: OCC

Roster (closed):
Merzbow
Liquidated
Methos
grs
Thormodr

Rules:

Strict 24/48 got it/play it, 15 turns each.
Posted saves must be at the end of a game turn.
Auto-build improvement automation is not allowed, but auto-build trade network is allowed.

I'm definitely in. Always enjoy a good OCC game.

I'd be very interested in trying that variant. I guess we are going for space? I would like us to take an industrious leader, to make it easier to get the wonders we want.

If you take me, please note, that I won't be available from tonight till 4th or 5th of January.

Only made it through the first page of that thread so far, but its a great read!

I'd have to go with Industrious as well. With an OCC I really like that production boost.

Edit: IMO Biology is something we should definitely go for, that is if we have any farmed tiles. The extra food would definitely help out with our unhealthiness plus it allows us to have more specialist. If we have no farmed tile or just one or two it might not be worth the time.

I've been playing a few occ's and glad I did before reading that appleton thread.

to recap
health is a MAJOR issue as the size of city is dependant not on happiness but health. Health only get gets worse at higher difficulties.

Research is an issue, not money.

Imo financial is kinda a gamble in that if you do not start near a bunch of 2 coin tiles you will need cottages to bump it all up to be useful. double speed banks doesn;t help much as cash is not an issue at that point in the game.

expansive for the +2 health, this will be critical in the mid game before techs like medicine come in after that it kinda falls flat... again very luck based trait, in that if you start off in a non costal spot with only one health resource... it's a great trait to have... half price granarys and harbors are both good as they are early game buildings.

If you start off with high innate health in the form of costal plots, fresh water, forests, special resources, then expansive is a wasted trait.

Industrious is WIN. All aspects of the OCC tie into this trait as it helps not only world wonders but all those National wonders we are able to spam in the same town.. keep in mind the following...

say you gain the ability to build ironworks in ten turns, for an industrious civ, that's five turns not only able to buld the next tiem, that's five turns extra you have the effects of ironworks going. A large portion of the builds our city is going to build are wonders, both world and national.

Finally, industrious civs get half priced forges... ya they are evil on health but the hammers they provide can be major. Bum rushing oracle to score metalworking early might offset the -1 health.

philo is major in that 100% tacked onto the already insane GP rate is um... insainer? another always-useful trait double speed university is ehh

Spiritual isn;t half bad... shoo-in for early religion and the ability to flop around on civics to fit the moment. I'd rate it on par with expansive.

Other factors to include are starting unit... a scout is better than a warrior as initial city placement is crucial.

I like later game UU's like panzer from bizmark as they hold their own against over teched opponents using modern armor.


sadly I don;t think there's a leader that's both phil and industrious..


if given the option between the two major traits, I like industrius more than I like philo as all those wonders add their own GP's.

so add to your short list

Bismark is industrious and expansive... not bad traits. and gets the panzer as his UU... a fantasic end game unit. also starts with a scout.

Peter is Philo and expansive... UU is the excellent cossak. starts with a scout

Ghandi is spiritual and industrious... the fast worker is not a bad UU. Starts with a warrior.

Saladin is spiritual and philo with camel archers being a relatively worthless UU for the occ.. as we are looking for deterant, not a war, knights obsolete too fast. Civ starts with a warrior.

the above mentioned qin starts with a warrior and his UU cho ko nu isn;t that bad as it can hold it's own against early gun powder units.

Lizzy gets redcoats... inferior to cossaks in terms of end game holdovers. Add to that a starting warrior.



My personal preference is bismark on account he has a pointy hat!


Cheers!
-Liq

I am not sure expansive outweighs financial in the long run. Both are a gamble I would say. I am not such a big fan of philosophical in this setting. It will just give us our GLs sooner and while that is nice, I am not sure it is really critical. Given that industrious is a must imho and reading Liq's arguments I vote for either Qi Shi Huang (1st) or Bismarck (2nd).

man took so long for me to look all that crap up mass peeps posted before me

fear liq at 4 am in the morning, where no spell check dares tread!


oh and automated workers are the DEBIL in SG, the one expception I hold is placing workers on auto spam roads after civil service farmage is finished. They get the mindless rail roads done and they also jump on late game resources like coal and oil when those are allowed to be mined.

also, I say reroll if we get a land locked start


Cheers!
-Liq'd

I would also have to agree that financial is a really nice trait, in just about any game. Philosophical would be nice, even better if mixed with Industrious (sadly, there is no leader with these two traits). I'm not that big on expansive, it would help but seems less valued compared to financial or industrious.

My vote is for Qi Shi Huang. Not for sure what my next choice would be.

if we can recast a few times to start, then yah expansive is marginal....

if we are forced to take what comes it hedges our heath situation alot more. If were are granted a default costal start I too like Qi better as financial is no longer a gamble.

hmm sun is coming up soon I'd best run back to the coffin, lest I get burned!~

Cheers!
-Liq

Although I am a SG newbie I have been playing Civ4 since it came out and I have been Civing it up since '91
I have been trying to get into a SG but invariably all the slots are full. I would very much like to play in this one. I can't promise perfection but I can promise 100% effort

Liquidated said:

...
oh and automated workers are the DEBIL in SG, the one expception I hold is placing workers on auto spam roads after civil service farmage is finished. They get the mindless rail roads done and they also jump on late game resources like coal and oil when those are allowed to be mined.

Click to expand...

In a OCC I would not want to see a single worker automated. How much do you think we will have?

Liquidated said:

also, I say reroll if we get a land locked start
Cheers!
-Liq'd

Click to expand...

I guess the starter can decide that. If it is too bad, he should restart, but that's it.

grs said:

I guess the starter can decide that. If it is too bad, he should restart, but that's it.

Click to expand...

I would have to agree with this. I don't like re-rolling just to get a start we want. If the start is horrible I can understand.

If there's still a spot open, I'd like to sign up. =)

OK Methos, grs, and Thormodr fill up the three remaining slots as they were the first to respond.

I think it's a toss-up between expansive and financial. The additional money you gain from financial with the tiles available to one city is similar to the extra beakers, gold, whatever generated by an additional specialist (which +2 health with give you, since OCC cities are ALWAYS health-limited).

So it's either Peter or Bismark I suppose. Hmm. I've confirmed that Industrious gives you +50% to building a national wonder also, which I didn't know. I think that cinches it for Bismark!

I agree with Liq that auto-build trade network is fine (in fact I tried this in an LK game but got beat down by the man himself, heh). I'll put that in the rules.

I'll roll a start.

Holy crap you guys have to check out this screen capture utility, it is awesome:

http://www.download.com/CaptureWizPro/3000-2192_4-10434490.html

Approximately 10^100 times better than the in-game facility. Lets you select arbitrary areas of the screen so no post-capture messing around in Paint Shop Pro.

Turn 1 (460 left):

OK folks so this is our start:



No coast unfortunately, but it otherwise looks pretty good. It always warms my heart to see lots of 2+ food and river tiles. I think I'll settle where I am. Our challenge is going to be production; we have only cows and one hill. Obviously we're gonna have to rely on lumbermilling/railroading our forests. We should not chop a single forest in our fat cross.

Berlin is founded; I start on a warrior:



Turn 2 (459 left):

28 gold from the hut, meh.

I start on archery BEFORE bronze working because the barbs will be popping up early and I want each chopping worker to be escorted with an archer. Many games previously I stuck with workers escorted by warriors or simply unescorted and have lost workers or have lost turns running them away from barb archers.

Turn 3 (458 left):

Zzz.

Turn 4 (457 left):

We find the coast... so close but yet so far:



Turn 5 (456 left):

Zzz.

Turn 6 (455 left):

Zzz.

Turn 7 (454 left):

We pop a scout from a hut, cool:



Turn 8 (453 left):

Archery -> Bronze Working.

Da buddamonx FIDAL.

Turn 9 (452 left):

Zzz.

Turn 10 (451 left):

We meet the Incans. I'm glad; Capac is usually a reliable ally as long as you stay on his good side.



Turn 11 (450 left):

One of our scouts was eaten by a lion.

Turn 12 (449 left):

Our other scout eats a lion.

Turn 13 (448 left):

Berlin finally pops a warrior after 12 turns, joy. I put it on archer in 8.

Turn 14 (447 left):

Zzz.

Turn 15 (446 left):

We pop another scout to replace our dear departed. I name him Milenko, as he is our link to the undead:



Turn 16 (445 left):

We meet Cyrus, another reliable ally. Score 2/2 on not being next to Monte or Alex...



Turn 17 (444 left):

Zzz.

Turn 18 (443 left):

Zzz.

Turn 19 (442 left):

Zzz.

Hinduism FIDAL.

Turn 20 (441 left):

Zzz.

Turn 21 (440 left):

Archer pops finally, I post him south of the cities near some forests that we'll be cutting. I put a worker in the queue.

Turn 22 (439 left):

Bronze Working -> Mysticism

I decide to go for the Oracle first since it's usually taken by the AI before Pyramids. This means I need Mysticism, Meditation, Priesthood, and Writing.

Turn 23 (438 left):

Zzz.

Turn 24 (437 left):

Zzz.

Turn 25 (436 left):

Zzz.

Turn 26 (435 left):

Zzz.

Turn 27 (434 left):

Our archer eats a lion.

Turn 28 (433 left):

Zzz.

Turn 29 (432 left):

Zzz.

Turn 30 (431 left):

Our archer eats another lion.

To next player:



Our near-term route is pretty much set I think. Chop another worker/archer pair, chop for Oracle (but make sure Writing finishes before the Oracle so we can grab CoL), then chop for Pyramids. DO NOT leave workers unescorted, they WILL be eaten.

Put the scouts on fog-busting duty around the capital once we've explored that area to the south. Consider chopping a third archer for city garrison if there's still some unbustable fog near the city. It wouldn't be fun to lose the game because a wandering barb axeman takes Berlin (yes, this has happened to me post-2000 BC).

I'm not able to post the save due to unspecified upload errors. I have to go to lunch now so I'll debug this later.

I'm assuming roster is set by the order we signed up? Meaning Luiqidated is up now?

Lurker's Comment:
I'll be following this SG closely, wish I would've been here in time to sign up for it. I've played probably a dozen OCC, mostly on monarch, and have come to mostly the same outline you have in the original post.

However, my favorite leader hasn't come up at all. I love Saladin for many reasons. Philosophical gives you twice the great people until Philosophy, and then 50% more than normal at that point. Since great people are your science and production, that's a pretty necessary trait.

Spiritual lets you get a couple religions (even on Monarch you can get 3 or 4), and that means monastaries, which can give you another 30-40% research bonus for much of the game. Not to mention you save 5 turns of anarchy.

And finally, the camel archer is a great UU for a OCC. They come at the point where even with great diplomacy another civ will feel you are weak because of your size, and come after you. Also they are resourceless, which is huge for this varient. You can never rely to have the resources you need.

I'm curious as to why he hasn't come up in this post or the one on Apolyton. Ah well, I'll be curious to your results. It certainly is a One City Challenge

Looks like Civfanatics file upload feature is permanently broken. Going to start using my own web storage. Anyways, here is the save:

http://nryan.com/Civ4/Merz01/Turn01/Merz01_BC-2840.Civ4SavedGame

Liquidated is up now.