new civ: croatia

Croatian civilization by me:

4 leaders - Petar Krešimir IV., Nikola Subic Zrinski, Ivan Mazuranic and Ante Gotovina
diplomacy song - "Sveto tlo Hrvatsko" (Holly gorund of Croatia) by Zlatni dukati, Thompson and Mikulic
war song - "Bojna Čaloglave" by M.P. Thompson
unique sounds for select and order for all units
modern croatian flag

Used unique unit in this version is German, that will change in the next version if next wersion happens.
That would be it.
You can download it at http://civhrv.50webs.com.

Finnaly....
direct download link is http://www.filegone.com/5mza.
btw. thanks for advice

Try filegone for hosting.

ajme said:

Croatian civilization by me:

4 leaders - Petar Krešimir IV., Nikola Subic Zrinski, Ivan Mazuranic and Ante Gotovina
diplomacy song - "Sveto tlo Hrvatsko" (Holly gorund of Croatia) by Zlatni dukati, Thompson and Mikulic
war song - "Bojna Čaloglave" by M.P. Thompson
unique sounds for select and order for all units
modern croatian flag

Used unique unit in this version is German, that will change in the next version if next wersion happens.
That would be it.
You can download it at http://civhrv.50webs.com.

But my hosting is having some problems, so maybe later...

Click to expand...

Ante Gotovina?!

Yap, the one who's accused for war crimes...

Ante Gotovina

Anyway, you should check Anima Croatorum's already finished Croatian Civ. You can find it on filegone and also on the link in my sig.

srdjann said:

Yap, the one who's accused for war crimes...

Click to expand...

He's certainly not even close to being a Croatian great leader, but he's innocent until proven guilty in my book. Lest you counter with Karadjic and Mladic, they're innocent until proven guilty too. As a layman I can not substantiate my opinion, but I think that they will be convicted, while I think A. Gotovina will not.

Something that Karadzic and Mladic are accused of has already been prosecuted on others - general Krstic is convicted in "assisting in genocide" which means that there has been genocide and everybody knows who is responsible and the process will be just formality. Therefore I can say without any doubt that Karadzic and Mladic are guilty.

About Gotovina - I didn't say that he is either guilty or convicted. I just said that he is accused which is the fact that nobody denies. I have a complete trust in ICTY in Den Haag, I will accept any sentence in Gotovina case as well as I accept the fact that prosecutors had enough proofs to raise an indictment against Ante Gotovina.

In the same way as it is unapropriate to say that somebody is guilty until proven guilty it is very problematic to celebrate somebody who is under great suspition that he commited war crimes.

What am I trying to say: If I were great Croatia hater (which I am not) I would be very happy for you to choose somebody who is accused for war crimes as a leader (or just to celebrate him as "great man") but since I'm not, since I like Croatia and Croats I'm totally unhappy and unsattisfied because of this since this represents whole Croatia as a country which is in favour of someone who is accused for serious war crimes.

It's common sense that Karadzic and Mladic are guilty. The fact that they are hiding as fugitives and being protected by the Serbian people raises a question to their guilt: if they were innocent what reason would they have to hide?

ajme, could you give us a reason for your decision to include Ante Gotovina as a leader for Croatia?

Equal as including Charlton Heston(Rodrigo Diaz) as Spanish leader.

Shqype said:

It's common sense that Karadzic and Mladic are guilty. The fact that they are hiding as fugitives and being protected by the Serbian people raises a question to their guilt: if they were innocent what reason would they have to hide?

ajme, could you give us a reason for your decision to include Ante Gotovina as a leader for Croatia?

Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was talking about!

Karadzic and Mladic are not protected by Serbian people but since there are a lot of Serbs that consider them as some kind of heroes ordinary people can get to this Shqype's conclusion.

It's the same way with Gotovina and I'm sure that no Croat would like to bee seen as a member of nation who is supporting and glorifying people that are accused for war crimes.

I wouldn't like to feel that way and that's why I always fight against glorifying Karadzic and Mladic since I know that it's not true that all the Serbian people stands behind them.

There are no criminal nations - just criminal individuals.

I understand that not all of the Serbian people stand behind those 2 criminals... but like you said there are still some that consider them heroes and would protect and harbor them.

In my senior year of highschool I had a foreign exchange student from Beograd. In politics class we were talking about leaders, what traits they possess, and what makes a leader a good or a bad leader. Her example of a bad leader was Slobodan Milosevic, and she believed he was a very bad leader for Serbia.

Obviously she was educated enough to not believe the propaganda that many of her people spew in relation to such things. I appreciated that from her that she was fair in her judgement and was not an ultranationalist that would glorify such criminals as heroes. In fact, she had a couple of Albanian friends as well while she stayed in America.

So I am well aware that not all believe that Karadzic and Mladic are heroes, but the problem is there is still a significant portion that do.

OK
for VetLegion - I know Anima (or you made Anima if you are reading this) has made Croatian civilization, I've been playing it for a month or something now
it's great, especially unit. I made my verzion because Thompson was kicked out and because I thing Gotovina should be a leader

now for everybody - Ante is a hero, and I don't give a f... about Haag
I was young, but I still remember the war. Border with Krajina was max 10 km from my house so I have a pretty good idea what happend in Oluja.

No, Thompson wasn't kicked out, you can still get it at the www.filegone.com location. I'm hosting the politically correct version of Anima's mod, the one with Skoro. Frankly, your wish to play with Gotovina&Thompson is understandable to me, as is the wish of some Serbian players to play with Chetnik songs. I'm quite uncomfortable with trying to be politically correct but I try to be anyway.

srdjann,

I dislike the Hague court on principle. You can notice that it exists only for Rwanda and countries of ex-Yugoslavia. In fact, I was watching a documentary about Africa and one African leader said that it was very good that there was war in Yugoslavia, or else the world would think only Africans are savages and it would be very bad for their image .

The court probably is rather professional (as a layman, I can't really tell), and its role in history will probably be judged as positive by Croats, as very few Croats will be convicted, while Slobodan Milosevic, the enemy, is looking at spending the rest of his life in some Swedish jail. I hope he will write some memoirs or something, I'd be interesting is reading his opinion on the war(s).

I don't feel comfortable knowing that the international community treats my country as a third world backwater that can't take care of its own business, and I especially don't feel comfortable knowing the state of my country's judiciary which indeed isn't something to be proud of, to put it mildly.

Someone had to try all the suspects and pragmatically it is probably OK that the Hague does it. In principle, it is not.

ajme said:

OK
for VetLegion - I know Anima (or you made Anima if you are reading this) has made Croatian civilization, I've been playing it for a month or something now
it's great, especially unit. I made my verzion because Thompson was kicked out and because I thing Gotovina should be a leader

now for everybody - Ante is a hero, and I don't give a f... about Haag
I was young, but I still remember the war. Border with Krajina was max 10 km from my house so I have a pretty good idea what happend in Oluja.

Click to expand...

Have you considered T-84 Degman as UU? Just rework the graphics for the modern armor. Also, if you find the time, update your civilopedia entries.

To prevent future clashes with militant lesbian vegeterian activists I went for a more PC song, a more subtle one, still, everyone who should know knows whats it about.

2km.

About political correctness - it speaks much more about the one who does or does not use it then about the ones who would be offended with political incorrectness. That's enough to be said about it.

About the Hague Tribunal - like VetLegion I am also uncomfortable about the fact that I live in uncivilized society which is uncapable to deal with war crimes, but on the other hand like VetLegion as well I am 100% sure that there is no other solution since the accussed for war crimes must be judged.

Unfortunatelly we can not live just on principles. If so, communism would work. Therefore we must play by the rules which are accepted by the most of the world.

And those rules say that someone who is accused for war crimes which did happen can not be a hero in the same time.

If you break the rules than you are the one who is gulty for being marginalized by the world and I am sure that you in Croatia are totally aware of that since this particular general, Ante Gotovina, got you stucked in one moment concernig Euro integrations.

Don't get me wrong, it's the same in Serbia, and that also annoys me very much since I don't want to be treated as a third world backwater. And like I said they do it just because of us, because of "Ante is a hero and I don't give a f..k about Haag", because of "Karadzic is a hero...", "Mladic is a hero"...

I hope I made my point

PS. Anima, you're wrong if you think that Skoro and Thompson are the same - there is great difference between "defend" and "defend and attack".

Hello ajme,

its nice to see that there is another Croatian Mod on CivFanatics. I respect the work you have put into it but I also have to criticise you, in my point of view you shouldnt use Ante Gotovina as an playable Leader. This has nothing to do with my politcal point, I support Ante Gotovina but I would rather prefer an alternativ Leader for this Croatian Mod. Anima Croatorum already put his Croatian Mod Online and its really good, thanks again at this point.
If you want to create an alternative Croatian mod you could use some real Leaders we had in Croatia and not "just" a General!

Please dont missunderstand me.

Bog i pozdrav,
i101.

PS. Anima, you're wrong if you think that Skoro and Thompson are the same - there is great difference between "defend" and "defend and attack".

Click to expand...

I think they're godfathers to each other's kids. Probably politically near. Skoro is obviously much more intelligent. Thompson went from an icon of resistance and one of the few performers in Croatia who can sell stadiums to virtual oblivion with the single gaffe of allowing himself to be recorded singing the "maksovi mesari" song.

srdjann said:

PS. Anima, you're wrong if you think that Skoro and Thompson are the same - there is great difference between "defend" and "defend and attack".

Click to expand...

I was not refering to singers, I was refering to songs.

Hi,
I know that this is not the place for debate about who comited war crimes and who has not, but any way I must say something about Haag tribunal(I am Law student). First at all it is political tribunal, law is just a convenient excuse. OK I admit that if some one has comited a crime like genocit should be punished for it, but problem is that the strongest countries like US can do what ever they want (let me point out that US is the only coutry that was find guilty of state terorisem-ilegal war, when they comited crimes agains humanity in south America and especially in Honduras, or when they bomb factory in Sudan which produced only drugs for malaria-10000 pepole died because they did not have drugs for the disease).
So my point her is that law shuold be recpected from the smalest to the largest countries.
P.S. BTW NATO attack on Srbia was also ilegal(UN did not aprove it), so Clinton scuold also be in cell next to Slobodan because he is responsible for many deaths.