MiniMod with patch suggestions

MiniMod v1.11, with patch suggestions for Civilization IV
by player1

This is small set of tweaks that I would recommend to be included in next patch for Civ4. The mod is based on rules from patch 1.52.


1) Cavalry and Cossacks need Rifling instead of Gunpowder as one of the tech requirements.

Done to prevent having rifled cavalry before Rifling. It also makes several Cavalry rushing strategies (when enemies have no Riflemen) less overpowering.

2) Battleships need Combustion as one of the additional tech requirements.

Done for consistency sake. All other motorized naval units need Combustion to be built, even if they are powered by Uranium (Destroyers, Transports, Submarines and Carriers). Otherwise, if Combustion is avoided and Uranium is available. you can get Battleships paired with Galleons for transport.

3) SAM Infantry gets it's bonus against Helicopters increased from 50% to 75%

Done to counterbalance increase of Helicopter strength from 20 to 24 in 1.52 patch.

4) Forts get their defensive bonus increased from 25% to 50%.

Done so it's not counter intuitive to clear forest and build fort on some terrain. With old values that meant decrease of defense bonus (forest gave 50%, forts just 25%). Now, while tile with fort won't be better then forested one, at least it's not worse and you get hammers for clearing the forest.

5) Price of SDI project gets increased from 750 to 2000 hammers.

Done to make it more balanced. With old settings building anti nuke defense is cheaper then cost of one nuke (375 hammers if having aluminum). Also, since this project can even be built before Manhattan Project, it can make nukes worthless before they ever get built. With new price, while it's still possible to build this project early, it's not anymore an easy decision, since with higher build costs only best production cities can finish it quickly and that means delaying space race.


And that's all. It's not called MiniMod for nothing.


For installation extract zip file to your Civilization 4\Mods folder.

For future versions, I could maybe add some solution to overpowered SDI project (currently cheaper then single nuke, not to mention buildable before Manhattan Project).

I haven't downloaded it, but maybe battleships
could be seen with galleons, if the tech is right.
Just because it is unreasonable in real life doesn't
mean it can't occur in Civ.
You can rewrite any history you want.

The others seem reasonable though.

Then why both Destroyer, Transport and Submarines require to have Combustion?
Why not have them too with industrialization and Uranium.

I only did it for consistance sake.
(none of other mothorized units is buildable without Combustion)

Version 1.1 uploaded. Two more changes added.

Concerning Forts, I think that a forest should remain after a fort is built. I cannot imagine several square kilometers of forest cleared for a fort to be built.

Two issues with that:
1) you can't mod that into game currently
2) why should forest give defensive bonus to people in fort?
(it could only give bonus to attacker hiding in the forest)

You can mod it by changing Civ4BuildInfos.xml in the Units folder.

Thnaks, I didn't know that.
But it still leaves a question why would forest give defensive bonus to a fort?

player1 fanatic said:

Thnaks, I didn't know that.
But it still leaves a question why would forest give defensive bonus to a fort?

Click to expand...

Well, the defenders may set up some defensive measure in the forest around the fort: traps, sharpshooters, ambushes... Futhermore, "fort" may also be a system of fortifications on the trees, or something like this.

Your mod changes the fort's defensive bonus from 25% to 75% in any circumstance, and this is too much, IMHO. Insted, leaving the forest around the fort will grant a defensive bonus of 25%+50%=75%, but only in this case.

The best solution, if this is possible, will be to increase the base defensive value of forts from 25% to 50% (I think that a 25% bonus is so little that in almost all circumstance building a fort is meaningless), and to set the defensive value of forts in a forest to 75%.

Cammagno said:

Well, the defenders may set up some defensive measure in the forest around the fort: traps, sharpshooters, ambushes...

Click to expand...

That could be simple Fortify action too.

Cammagno said:

The best solution, if this is possible, will be to increase the base defensive value of forts from 25% to 50% (I think that a 25% bonus is so little that in almost all circumstance building a fort is meaningless),

Click to expand...

Agreed...

Cammagno said:

and to set the defensive value of forts in a forest to 75%.

Click to expand...

I don't think it's possible.

Anyway, my main issue with forts in forests is that if fort bonus is increased (to combat their weakness in other terrain) and if you stack that with bonus in forest, you get unrealistic big defense bonus for forest (like current 50% is not already big enough).

By the way I uploaded version 1.11 were I put fort bonus to more conservative value (+50%).
I guess that 75% was kinda drastic when you realize you can't torn it down with catapults or cannons like you can city defenses.

Nice changes!

player1 fanatic said:

MiniMod v1.11, with patch suggestions for Civilization IV
by player1

This is small set of tweaks that I would recommend to be included in next patch for Civ4. The mod is based on rules from patch 1.52.


1) Cavalry and Cossacks need Rifling instead of Gunpowder as one of the tech requirements.

Done to prevent having rifled cavalry before Rifling. It also makes several Cavalry rushing strategies (when enemies have no Riflemen) less overpowering.

2) Battleships need Combustion as one of the additional tech requirements.

Done for consistency sake. All other motorized naval units need Combustion to be built, even if they are powered by Uranium (Destroyers, Transports, Submarines and Carriers). Otherwise, if Combustion is avoided and Uranium is available. you can get Battleships paired with Galleons for transport.

3) SAM Infantry gets it's bonus against Helicopters increased from 50% to 75%

Done to counterbalance increase of Helicopter strength from 20 to 24 in 1.52 patch.

4) Forts get their defensive bonus increased from 25% to 50%.

Done so it's not counter intuitive to clear forest and build fort on some terrain. With old values that meant decrease of defense bonus (forest gave 50%, forts just 25%). Now, while tile with fort won't be better then forested one, at least it's not worse and you get hammers for clearing the forest.

5) Price of SDI project gets increased from 750 to 2000 hammers.

Done to make it more balanced. With old settings building anti nuke defense is cheaper then cost of one nuke (375 hammers if having aluminum). Also, since this project can even be built before Manhattan Project, it can make nukes worthless before they ever get built. With new price, while it's still possible to build this project early, it's not anymore an easy decision, since with higher build costs only best production cities can finish it quickly and that means delaying space race.


And that's all. It's not called MiniMod for nothing.


For installation extract zip file to your Civilization 4\Mods folder.

Click to expand...

Create the possibility that a spy can steal a technology from rival civilization.

This has already been created, and it is available for download. I can find it for you if you want.

These are some nice changes, player1_fanatic, and although they're not major, they do add more balance and make sense.

Forrests and Forts are counter productive, when it comes to defence.

A forrest should get a defensive bonus because of concealment, camoflague, and lots of big sticks in the ground to break up shape.

A fort gets a defensive bonus because its got big assed walls, parapets, arow slot, gate etc.

You should not be able to get a bonus for both. Example: I walk through the jungle and see a big fort, the defender is at no advantage because he is in the forest, inside his fort. He's not very well camoflagued in there, I can probably see him quite well, standing at the top flipping me the bird and throwing rocks down.

I think that a fort should be a better bonus pre rifling say 75% and forrest a minor one say 25%.
After rifiling has been invented I think that they should be swapped over. all of a sudden forts are death traps. How do you think the Viet Cong so successfully with held a far superio force? well it wasn't because they went around building forts at every available location.

units don't represent individual soldiers. a fort in a forest tile means that some of them are hiding in the OP or patroling in the forest. the fort provides better protection and resting area for those not on watch and for the officers.

you can keep the forest when you build a fort. since battles are rarely fought at forts, the high bonuses together with fort and forest don't mean much.

You're arguing for the sake of arguement,
Of course the units don't represent individual soldiers, the same as my 20th century capitol doesn't really have a population of 20 people. The mere fact that there is usually three of each type of unit states the obvious. You may have been more correct to say that the units don't represent 3 individuals. The units are representative of legions, early game and regiments or batallions late game.

The word "fort" which is founded in the early stages of the game, at Mathematics, I believe, is representative of a defensive structure built to protect sleeping troops, and to be easy to defend. An easy to build, regional version of a castle.

What you are speaking of is "fortifications" which includes such things as you have listed below and claymore mines, fields of fire, section gun sentry duties, shell scrapes and a plethora of others, which I believe were not developed till the mid 20th century, possibly even as i wrote in my last post, around the time of rifling.

your point that battles are rarely fought at a fort is completely imaginary. why do you think that soldiers spent all that time building the things? for exercise? so they could paint them with pretty pictures and put up lace curtains? can I perhaps point out the battle of Balaclava, I believe it was the English, Vs the Afghanis around the end of the 19th century. The british built a fort on the hillcrest of a nearby hill to stop enemy artillary from pounding their main fortifications. The fiercest fighting was at the fort.

Can I also perhaps poiont out the battle of Long Tan, where 2 sections (around 30) Australian soldiers successfully repelled an attack from several regiments (somewhere between 2-5,000) Viet Cong with no fort or fortifications.

The last appearance of a "fort" was around the time of the cavalry as depicted in the game, ie carrying a rifle, with a horse trained not to be gun shy. it had big wooden walls with sharpened wooden posts for walls etc, if you are getting the picture.

In modern warefare a fort is ludicrous. a little napalm, a good sized shell and you've lost your batallion. Your opposition would cheer if they saw a modern army build a fort. "praise the heavans, the fools are going to be hidding under their beds, in that building over there, corporal, bring the petrol"

no forts as you classify them were still usefull as late as WW1 I know for shure.
they had evolved to bunker systems trenches and such. (note difference trechsystem - fox hole, foxhole- give a solidger a shovle and tell him to dig, trench system= major engeneering effort).
Ok and 2ly forts where not obsolete with rifleing or canons, the oldway of building forts was. starshaped forts with very low walls but paired with trenches soon apeared, alot harder to knock down a wall you can't get the right angle.
so how about this, forts get less efective with steel, but you may upgrade them to previous strength with steel aswell. then again the whole spiel with artillary.
cheers