How do you feel about birthright citizenship?

Today I tuned into to a radio station discussing birthright citizenship. In the US, if a baby is born within the country he/she is given automatic citizenship even if the parents are illegal immigrants. The host of the show believed that the government should not allow birthright citizenship and take greater measure on immigration control.

According to the talk show, most European countries do npt allow birthright citizenship and the host believed that the US should follow suit.

So what’s is your take on birthright citizenship? This is an issue I’ve never heard or seen discussed on the news.

You should have citizenship by right of birth, regardless of your parents if you were born in this country. If not then how do you become a citizen?

I think the host was saying that if both parents are illegal immigrants then birthright citizenship should not be given. Obviously he felt that birthright citizenship should be given to parents who are citizens.

There are quite a few couples, mostly Mexicans, who sneak into America just as the wife is about to give birth, making the kid an American citizen, and then the family can legally stay in the country. I don't think this should be allowed. Children of non-nationalized, legal immigrants should be granted natural citizenship though.

I think that the mexicans and central americans should be allowed to have full USA citizenship.If their parents struggle without legal documentation,how can you expect the chance of 1st generational born childrens have the chance of moving up the economic ladder?

I have to agree with MjM and say that birthright citizenship is just fine. However if the parents are illegal then it shouldn't be given because that is pretty cheesy.

The Condor said:

I have to agree with MjM and say that birthright citizenship is just fine. However if the parents are illegal then it shouldn't be given because that is pretty cheesy.

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I am speaking that my viewpoint is more moderate.

There is two extreme sides
1.People that think illegal immigrant should be deported.
2.People that think illegal immigrant should be accepted.

The rest is subdivision of those two extremes

I think that illegal immigrants children should be outright full citizens is the most compromising decision on regarding immigration.

This issue is growing more steam every year. The ability of foreign nationals to cross the border, pop out a child and have it be a citizen, needs to be reviewed heavily.

My initial, personal feeling on it is it should be discontinued. There are laws in place and a system for people to become legal immigrants.

Yes,you need as much as cheap labour you can get,to compete with China!

Nobody should get his citizenship by being born in some country. Even the natives.

In 18 years, everybody should undergo a test from history, language and knowledge of the native culture. If he passes, he will be granted a citizenship.

I guess about 2/3 of Czechs would fail to achieve citizenship, if this rule was in place

Where exactly would they go if they failed?

MjM said:

Where exactly would they go if they failed?

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Nowhere, they will remain where they are, but they wouldn't have all the rights the citizens have, for example right to vote.

This measure would ensure, that citizens know something about their country, it's history and culture, and are not just mindless hamburger-eaters. Also it would help with immigration and assimilation of immigrants. They would have to prove they have made some effort to integrate themselves into the native society.

All this would ensure is greater corruption and people being divided into a two class society. This would also mean that richer people will all be citizens while someone who works from early age to make a living becomes a second class citizen.
To me this is rich-class oriented fashism.

However I do agree that people need to be more aware of their culture and history. But hey who teaches history? Would this new system also mean that people become more pro-government because it prints the books and exams that ordinary people need to read to pass the test?
More elements of authrotarianism

Ok, lemme bring a little light on forms of citzenship:

There are traditionally three schools:

Birthrights: This is the one which is prevalent in former colonies of European metropolis. Basically, you are a citzen if born within the territorial boundaries of the land. The reason for that choice is because there were, at the time, a debate onto wheter or not people should be judged by their "personal institute" (which signifies the law of his/her land of origin) or "legal institute" (or the law of the land where he/she has taken the action been judged). This criteria allowed a pragmatic end of the argument in favour of the more convenient (and eventually prevalent) thesis of the "legal institute", by augment the number of people with at least dual citzenship (hence the law of the land applied, even if the person consider him/herself a foreigner).

Other reason for the adoption of "birthright" is because at the time in question, migration between several countries in commercial enterprises were very common, and trips could last years. That way, you could eliminate problems regarding when conception happened (another theory raised but never too sucessfull), as well as solve matters easily for people living in borders of extreme interaction (like Brazil and Uruguay at the time of silver extracting, for example).

Bloodright: Basically, this means that the sons and daugthers of citzens will be citzens as well. This is traditionally adopted by European nations, and it's purpose was never to alienate the undesireable people (specially because immigration was not the issue then - emigration was what they were worried about). Basically, it was impossible to convince people to go settle in the savage "new world" if it would cost to their offspring their right of citzenship. Hence, this criteria was adopted with the purpose of embracing more people, the sons of colonial familes spreading the powers of their respective empires.

Mixed: As the name implies, some form of compromise between the two. In modern day, Brazil, for example, adopt this theory (birthright in full, mitigated bloodright - sons and daughters of Brazilian citzens born abroad get full citzenship as long as they require it in a consulate up until one year of their 18th birthday). Obviously there are other forms to compromise the two stances.

It's a country's prerrogative to select a criteria for citzenship (or none at all - who said that it can not be arbitrarily conceded?), but it will be a new action to use citzenship rights as a form of alienation instead of inclusion.

I should also point out that, as many people which immigrate to the US of A comes from countries which adopt "exclusive birthright" (don't know if that is the case of Mexico, which would be the most important one), people born from illegals in the US would become stateless - not recognized as citzens either by the US or the nation of origin of their parents. The practical effect of this is that, while the US would have the right of deportation, there would be nowhere to send that people to, what would right there kill the desired effect of the measure, because the people would have to stay just like before.

So I guess it's back to planning, huh, immigration opposers?

Regards .

Only members of the Government and Military should be givien citizenship. They are the only one's who deserve it.

Yeah screw the scientists, writers, poets, factory workers, economists, philosophers, aritsits, film makers, farmers, teachers, professors, electricians and the rest......

Gelion said:

Yeah screw the scientists, writers, poets, factory workers, economists, philosophers, aritsits, film makers, farmers, teachers, professors, electricians and the rest......

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Perhaps but it would encourage people to join the military and government to get citizenship privelages. Basically a Starship Troopers type thing.

silver 2039 said:

Perhaps but it would encourage people to join the military and government to get citizenship privelages. Basically a Starship Troopers type thing.

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And who is going to to care of the entire nation? The military?

Starship Troopers is a film for Yank nationalists full of Darvinism and Fashist theories. If you like that system well then I see your point of view.

If child is born from illegal immigrants goverment should throw that scum with their breed out of their country. Look at France - it's swarmed with those who settled, then started to spawn bunches of whelps to fill living place and obtain more subsidies cuz France is passive with illegals. US is suffering from mexicans as France suffer from blacks.

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Here is a small explanation of the French system
There are 4 ways to get the French nationality.
- "bloodright" : Is considered a French national any child with at least one of his parent who is a French national, or become a French national.
- "birth right" a child who is born in France becomes automatically a French national. But if his parents are not French national, the child gets the French nationality only when he truns 18.
- Through a naturalization process: a major foreigner, living in France for at least 5 years could ask to be naturalized. These 5 years can be reduced to 2 years if he went sucessfully though 2 years of studies in a French high school, or he has or can bring "importante services to France"
- Through wedding: a foreigner married to a French national for at least 2 years can ask for the French nationality. This delay is extended to 3 years if he cannot justifiy is continuous presence in France during at least 1 full year after the wedding. He also has to be fluent enough in France.

Legally speaking, French nationality is a required condition to become a French citizen, but it's not sufficient. You also need to have your full civic and political rights.

Thus, a child who gain the French nationality becomes a French citizen only when he turns 18, when he gets the right to vote.