Not a discussion thread, but anyone may post something here for safekeeping 
The Armory
- Thread starter peter grimes
- Start date
Some Tactical Notes for General Consideration
I'm treating this place as a notepad, a warehouse in which to keep important military info that might get lost if they were placed in any old post. I'll try to keep this updated
Movement Notes* as of turn 86
Northernmost barracks in LookHere
Units can reach:
Flaxon Musk in 3turns +1
Woodridge in 3
ChuckNorrisville in 3+1 (from Woodridge)
Parga in 3 (from Woodridge)
Units Produced in Most productive barracks cities:
Athens can reach Woodridge in 5
EMP City can reach Woodridge in 4+1
Heron can reach Woodridge in 5
Meleagerville can reach Woodridge in 4
Athens can reach Flaxon Musk in 7
EMP City can reach Flaxon Musk in 7
Heron can reach Flaxon Musk in 7
Meleagerville can reach Flaxon Musk in 7
I'm treating this place as a notepad, a warehouse in which to keep important military info that might get lost if they were placed in any old post. I'll try to keep this updated
Movement Notes* as of turn 86
Northernmost barracks in LookHere
Units can reach:
Flaxon Musk in 3turns +1
Woodridge in 3
ChuckNorrisville in 3+1 (from Woodridge)
Parga in 3 (from Woodridge)
Units Produced in Most productive barracks cities:
Athens can reach Woodridge in 5
EMP City can reach Woodridge in 4+1
Heron can reach Woodridge in 5
Meleagerville can reach Woodridge in 4
Athens can reach Flaxon Musk in 7
EMP City can reach Flaxon Musk in 7
Heron can reach Flaxon Musk in 7
Meleagerville can reach Flaxon Musk in 7
Some Notes on KISS's Military*
Here are the units we've had visual confirmation of,
As of Turn 94:
2 reg. Gallic Swordsman (score value = 19.5) = 39
2 Veteran Gallic Sword (score value = 26.) = 52
3 reg. Warriors (score value=7.5ea) = 22.5
1 reg curragh (score value = 4.5) = 4.5
-----Total known = 118
------KISS total = 337-411 as of turn 94 MIA has 374
leaving up to ---- 293 unseen
Speculation: At most, KISS can have (unseen by us):
*As of turn 96, I will no longer edit the data in this post. It will be important for us to keep a record of KISS' military growth. I will therefore update the information in this post in a new post at the end of this thread as we learn more about KISS.
Here are the units we've had visual confirmation of,
As of Turn 94:
2 reg. Gallic Swordsman (score value = 19.5) = 39
2 Veteran Gallic Sword (score value = 26.) = 52
3 reg. Warriors (score value=7.5ea) = 22.5
1 reg curragh (score value = 4.5) = 4.5
-----Total known = 118
------KISS total = 337-411 as of turn 94 MIA has 374
leaving up to ---- 293 unseen
Speculation: At most, KISS can have (unseen by us):
11 veteran Gallic Swords, or
15 regular Gallic Swords
15 regular Gallic Swords
*As of turn 96, I will no longer edit the data in this post. It will be important for us to keep a record of KISS' military growth. I will therefore update the information in this post in a new post at the end of this thread as we learn more about KISS.
Some Notes on the Abilities of MIA's Military
The formula to determine Weak/Average/Strong:
WeakCiv<=.8MIA
StrongCiv>=1.2MIA
AverageCiv=any value between .8MIA, 1.2MIA
The Formula:
Total Military Value = HP(1.5AP +1DP) + .5(BP)
HP = hit points
AP = Attack strength
DP = Defend strength
BP = Bombard strength
movement counts for naught
In practice, I have found it easier to look at a unit's Value/HP, and then sum up how many HP there are for each unit.
Warrior (1/1/1) = 1.5(1) + 1(1) = 2.5 points for each Hit Point.
so, Regular warrior = 7.5
Here's a list of Units and their score values/HP:
Our Units
Unit (a/d/m) base value / HP .... Regular .... Veteran
Hoplite 4.5 ..... 13.5 ..... 18
MDI (4/2/1) 8 ..... 24 ..... 32
Knight (4/3/2) 9 .... 27 .... 36
Cavalry (6/3/3) 12 ... 36 ...48
Infantry (6/10/1) 19 ... 57 ... 76
Caravel (1/2/3) 3.5 .... 10.5 ... 14
Trebuchet (6/1/1) 3 ... 9 ... 12
Cannon (8/1/2) 4 .... 12 .... 16
Their Units
Pikemen 4 .... 12 .... 16
Muskets (2/4/1) 7.5 ... 22.5 ... 30
M.Warrior 5.5 ... 16.5 ... 22
GallicSword 6.5 .. 19.5 ... 26
Longbow 7 .... 21 .... 28
Galley 2.5 ......7.5 ... 10
Galleon 3.5 ..... 10.5 ... 14
I'll add more as we get them, or as we get near to them, but here's a few to whet our appetites:
Galleon (1/2/4) 3.5 ... 10.5 ... 14
Cavalry (6/3/3/) 12 ... 36 ... 48
Frigate (2/2/4) 5 .... 15 .... 20
Obsolete Units
Warrior 2.5 .... Regular 7.5 .... Veteran 10
Swordsman 6.5 .. 19.5 .. 26
Horseman 4 ... 12 ... 16
Spearman 3.5 ... 10.5 ... 14
Immortals 8 .... 24 .... 32
Curragh 2.5 .... 7.5 ... 10
Catapult (4/1/1).175 .. .5 .. .62 2 ... 6 ... 8
The formula to determine Weak/Average/Strong:
WeakCiv<=.8MIA
StrongCiv>=1.2MIA
AverageCiv=any value between .8MIA, 1.2MIA
The Formula:
Total Military Value = HP(1.5AP +1DP) + .5(BP)
HP = hit points
AP = Attack strength
DP = Defend strength
BP = Bombard strength
movement counts for naught
In practice, I have found it easier to look at a unit's Value/HP, and then sum up how many HP there are for each unit.
Warrior (1/1/1) = 1.5(1) + 1(1) = 2.5 points for each Hit Point.
so, Regular warrior = 7.5
Here's a list of Units and their score values/HP:
Our Units
Unit (a/d/m) base value / HP .... Regular .... Veteran
Hoplite 4.5 ..... 13.5 ..... 18
MDI (4/2/1) 8 ..... 24 ..... 32
Knight (4/3/2) 9 .... 27 .... 36
Cavalry (6/3/3) 12 ... 36 ...48
Infantry (6/10/1) 19 ... 57 ... 76
Caravel (1/2/3) 3.5 .... 10.5 ... 14
Trebuchet (6/1/1) 3 ... 9 ... 12
Cannon (8/1/2) 4 .... 12 .... 16
Their Units
Pikemen 4 .... 12 .... 16
Muskets (2/4/1) 7.5 ... 22.5 ... 30
M.Warrior 5.5 ... 16.5 ... 22
GallicSword 6.5 .. 19.5 ... 26
Longbow 7 .... 21 .... 28
Galley 2.5 ......7.5 ... 10
Galleon 3.5 ..... 10.5 ... 14
I'll add more as we get them, or as we get near to them, but here's a few to whet our appetites:
Galleon (1/2/4) 3.5 ... 10.5 ... 14
Cavalry (6/3/3/) 12 ... 36 ... 48
Frigate (2/2/4) 5 .... 15 .... 20
Obsolete Units
Warrior 2.5 .... Regular 7.5 .... Veteran 10
Swordsman 6.5 .. 19.5 .. 26
Horseman 4 ... 12 ... 16
Spearman 3.5 ... 10.5 ... 14
Immortals 8 .... 24 .... 32
Curragh 2.5 .... 7.5 ... 10
Catapult (4/1/1)
Easier = Propains/Oystein's formulae; (3A+2D)HP+B, where
A = Attack value
D = Defense value
HP = Hitpoints
B = Bombardment
Just add them up for all units and you get your military score.
Propain's article
Oystein's article
A = Attack value
D = Defense value
HP = Hitpoints
B = Bombardment
Just add them up for all units and you get your military score.
Propain's article
Oystein's article
Thanks Rik! I think Chamnix pointed me to Oystein's Propain's article, where I first learned about it. I like to think of it ordered differently because I do much of it in my head.
General_W's game board.... Now if only I could find my old Stratego pieces!
Turn 90 Upgrade Analysis
Our Dear Leader Chamnix, in his most wise and beneficient actions, has strengthened our army through the inspriration his heroic lifestory has on our soldiers. They are now just as strong as our neighbors! Here's the breakdown:
WEAK Military:
Average with
Here are the numbers: WEAK = 212 , AVERAGE = 215
So that means that KISS and TNT have up to 215 + (215/5) = 258
DNUT must have at least 259
Our Dear Leader Chamnix, in his most wise and beneficient actions, has strengthened our army through the inspriration his heroic lifestory has on our soldiers. They are now just as strong as our neighbors! Here's the breakdown:
WEAK Military:
2 veteran swords
2 veteran horsemen
1 veteran hoplite
1 regular galley
1 veteran galley
1 regular curragh
6 regular warriors
5 veteran warriors
2 veteran horsemen
1 veteran hoplite
1 regular galley
1 veteran galley
1 regular curragh
6 regular warriors
5 veteran warriors
Average with
3 veteran swords
2 veteran horsemen
1 veteran hoplite
1 regular galley
1 veteran galley
1 regular curragh
6 regular warriors
4 veteran warriors
2 veteran horsemen
1 veteran hoplite
1 regular galley
1 veteran galley
1 regular curragh
6 regular warriors
4 veteran warriors
Here are the numbers: WEAK = 212 , AVERAGE = 215
So that means that KISS and TNT have up to 215 + (215/5) = 258
DNUT must have at least 259
Turn 94 Upgrade Analysis
Our Nation, the People's Republic of MIA, under the divine leadership of Dear Leader Chamnix, has completed additional upgrades. This has resulted in our analysts gleaning additional information concerning the Armies of our Enemies:
MIA has 374
We are WEAK to Dnuts >= 449
We were AVERAGE to TNT at strength 361.5, so TNT's range is 289 - 299
We are STRONG to TNT @ 374
Our Nation, the People's Republic of MIA, under the divine leadership of Dear Leader Chamnix, has completed additional upgrades. This has resulted in our analysts gleaning additional information concerning the Armies of our Enemies:
MIA has 374
We are WEAK to Dnuts >= 449
We were AVERAGE to TNT at strength 361.5, so TNT's range is 289 - 299
We are STRONG to TNT @ 374
Some Notes on DNUT's Military
from a chat with Robi, turn 94: if we were to switch to republic we would need 64gpt to maintain our military.
analysis to follow, when i have time
from a chat with Robi, turn 94: if we were to switch to republic we would need 64gpt to maintain our military.
analysis to follow, when i have time
Turn 95 Upgrade Analysis
We are weak to Dnuts with:
We are AVERAGE to DNUT with:
*My poor math is getting the best of me again. I'm getting confuse as to whether to express the 'prechange minumum' or the 'posthcange minimum' for DNUTs. When we changed status, DNUTs lower range changed from 324 to 338. I put the lower number here to represent the most conservative value.
We are weak to Dnuts with:
2 regular warrior
5 veteran swords
2 veteran horsemen
1 regular galley
1 veteran galley
3 veteran hoplites
1 regular hoplite
3 regular MDI
2 veteran MDI
1 regular curragh
MIA has 405.55 veteran swords
2 veteran horsemen
1 regular galley
1 veteran galley
3 veteran hoplites
1 regular hoplite
3 regular MDI
2 veteran MDI
1 regular curragh
We are AVERAGE to DNUT with:
1 regular warrior
5 veteran swords
2 veteran horsemen
1 regular galley
1 veteran galley
3 veteran hoplites
1 regular hoplite
4 regular MDI
2 veteran MDI
1 regular curragh
MIA has 422, but based on the tipping point, DNUT must have between 324* and 486.5 veteran swords
2 veteran horsemen
1 regular galley
1 veteran galley
3 veteran hoplites
1 regular hoplite
4 regular MDI
2 veteran MDI
1 regular curragh
*My poor math is getting the best of me again. I'm getting confuse as to whether to express the 'prechange minumum' or the 'posthcange minimum' for DNUTs. When we changed status, DNUTs lower range changed from 324 to 338. I put the lower number here to represent the most conservative value.
ybbor
Will not change his avata
peter grimes said:
I'm almost certain it's postchange, so 338
EDIT: but wait, something is wrong there. why would we be considered weak if D-nuts had 338 (or 324) which would be a lower value. I think we can assume it's exactly 486 they have, based simply on the nature of such a formula, but we can be certain they have at least 405.5
I think you're right, Ybbor. When we had 405.5, we were weak to DNUT. Therefore, they must have had at least 486.5+.
If they had any less, they would have registered as Average to us.
So, DNUTs have between 487 and 506.
More analysis later.
If they had any less, they would have registered as Average to us.
So, DNUTs have between 487 and 506.
More analysis later.
Turn 96 Upgrade Analysis
We are AVERAGE to KISS with: 483.5
We are STRONG to KISS with: 490.5
Therefore, KISS can have no more than 392
We are AVERAGE to KISS with: 483.5
We are STRONG to KISS with: 490.5
Therefore, KISS can have no more than 392
These numbers do not take into account the units that were visible on the 'illegal map' that KISS sent us on turn 95. Unless the Game Administrators inform me otherwise, I will not use our ill-gotten knowledge in these analyses... but I really wish we could
Some Notes on KISS's Military As of Turn 96:
Here are the units we've had visual confirmation of
2 reg. Gallic Swordsman (score value = 19.5) = 39
3 Veteran Gallic Sword (score value = 26) = 78
3 reg. Warriors (score value=7.5ea) = 22.5
1 reg curragh (score value = 4.5) = 4.5
-----Total known = 144
-----KISS total = 387-392 as of turn 96 MIA has 490.5
leaving up to ---- 248 unseen
Speculation: At most, KISS can have (unseen by us):
Some Notes on KISS's Military As of Turn 96:
Here are the units we've had visual confirmation of
2 reg. Gallic Swordsman (score value = 19.5) = 39
3 Veteran Gallic Sword (score value = 26) = 78
3 reg. Warriors (score value=7.5ea) = 22.5
1 reg curragh (score value = 4.5) = 4.5
-----Total known = 144
-----KISS total = 387-392 as of turn 96 MIA has 490.5
leaving up to ---- 248 unseen
Speculation: At most, KISS can have (unseen by us):
9 veteran Gallic Swords, or
12 regular Gallic Swords
12 regular Gallic Swords
Military Analysis for Turn 97
Compared to every civ in the entire Universe we are STRONG:
1 warrior (1 regular)
2 horsemen (2 veteran)
9 hoplites (9 veteran)
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular)
1 catapult
--------------
515
Therefore, KISS, TNT, and DNUT have not more than 412
On our 95 upgrade Dnut had between 487 and 506.
They lost around 65 - 94 points. That could be 3 vet MW, on the low side, or as many as 4 and Spear. But consider this: Their army is still quite strong. They will probably be able to raze another town, based on how many shields TNT wasted on that crypt.
Compared to every civ in the entire Universe we are STRONG:
1 warrior (1 regular)
2 horsemen (2 veteran)
9 hoplites (9 veteran)
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular)
1 catapult
--------------
515
Therefore, KISS, TNT, and DNUT have not more than 412
On our 95 upgrade Dnut had between 487 and 506.
They lost around 65 - 94 points. That could be 3 vet MW, on the low side, or as many as 4 and Spear. But consider this: Their army is still quite strong. They will probably be able to raze another town, based on how many shields TNT wasted on that crypt.
Official Report on the Strength of the MIA Conflict Deterrent, Turn 100
1 warrior (1 regular)
2 horsemen (2 veteran)
12 hoplites (11 veteran)
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular)
1 catapult
3 galleys (1 veteran, 2 regular)
TOTAL: 569
KISS military: WEAK <= 455
TNT military: WEAK <= 455
DNUT: AVERAGE = 456 - 673 (but more likely they are right around 500)
1 warrior (1 regular)
2 horsemen (2 veteran)
12 hoplites (11 veteran)
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular)
1 catapult
3 galleys (1 veteran, 2 regular)
TOTAL: 569
KISS military: WEAK <= 455
TNT military: WEAK <= 455
DNUT: AVERAGE = 456 - 673 (but more likely they are right around 500)
Continuing Analysis of KISS' military, current Turn 101
Well, we were hoping it wouldn't happen, but KISS is now AVERAGE to us. We've built a couple units this last turn, and apparently they have as well.
We added
1 veteran Horseman, 1 Veteran Hoplite = +34
1 warrior (1 regular)
3 horsemen (2 veteran)
13 hoplites (11 veteran)
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular)
1 catapult
3 galleys (1 veteran, 2 regular)
TOTAL: 603
KISS must have at least 482.
This has one certain conclusion, and one not-so-certain conclusion:
But KISS may have actually produced 6 Veteran GS and 4 Spears, and we'd still be registering as AVERAGE. This is where we will start to lose sight of KISS's military: They had been on the cusp of 4/5 of our strength, but they've crossed that threshold. Unfortunate.
Well, we were hoping it wouldn't happen, but KISS is now AVERAGE to us. We've built a couple units this last turn, and apparently they have as well.
We added
1 veteran Horseman, 1 Veteran Hoplite = +34
1 warrior (1 regular)
3 horsemen (2 veteran)
13 hoplites (11 veteran)
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular)
1 catapult
3 galleys (1 veteran, 2 regular)
TOTAL: 603
KISS must have at least 482.
This has one certain conclusion, and one not-so-certain conclusion:
-On our turn 100, KISS had not more than 455
-KISS have gained at least 27 points between our 100 and our 101.
-Anyone want to guess how many points a vet GS is? 26!
-KISS have gained at least 27 points between our 100 and our 101.
-Anyone want to guess how many points a vet GS is? 26!
But KISS may have actually produced 6 Veteran GS and 4 Spears, and we'd still be registering as AVERAGE. This is where we will start to lose sight of KISS's military: They had been on the cusp of 4/5 of our strength, but they've crossed that threshold. Unfortunate.
I'm a little late, but I'm not matching your turn 100 numbers:
1 warrior (1 regular) = 7.5
2 horsemen (2 veteran) = 32
12 hoplites (12 veteran) = 216
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular) = 320
1 catapult = don't remember
3 galleys (1 veteran, 2 regular) = 25
Total = 600.5 + a catapult
You will be happy to know we are strong again on turn 102- I think we produced 2 hoplites and a horse.
1 warrior (1 regular) = 7.5
2 horsemen (2 veteran) = 32
12 hoplites (12 veteran) = 216
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular) = 320
1 catapult = don't remember
3 galleys (1 veteran, 2 regular) = 25
Total = 600.5 + a catapult
You will be happy to know we are strong again on turn 102
- I think we produced 2 hoplites and a horse.
Wow.... You're right about one thing: My math was off. I had been simply adding and subtracting unit values to previous turn strengths sometimes (if I was in a hurry), so that's probably how the errors crept in.
But you've got an error as well. I thought we had a regular Hoplite. So our numbers should be:
T100
T101
We were STRONG to KISS on 100, then AVERAGE on 101. This presents a range for KISS:
100: KISS<462
101: KISS>481
a gain of at least 19
Darn. It was so beautifully elegant when it appeared that their strength grew by a single GS relative to us. Oh well. I must take more time in the future on these numbers. Carelessness is inexcusable.
But you've got an error as well. I thought we had a regular Hoplite. So our numbers should be:
T100
1 warrior (1 regular) = 7.5
2 horsemen (2 veteran) = 32
12 hoplites (11 veteran) = 216 + 13.5
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular) = 224 + 96
1 catapult = .62
3 galleys (1 veteran, 2 regular) = 10 + 15
TOTAL = 614.62 --> 6152 horsemen (2 veteran) = 32
12 hoplites (11 veteran) = 216 + 13.5
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular) = 224 + 96
1 catapult = .62
3 galleys (1 veteran, 2 regular) = 10 + 15
T101
1 warrior (1 regular)
3 horsemen (3 veteran) = +16
13 hoplites (13 veteran?) = +17.5 when did the regular promote?
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular)
1 catapult
3 galleys (1 veteran, 2 regular)
TOTAL: 638.53 horsemen (3 veteran) = +16
13 hoplites (13 veteran?) = +17.5 when did the regular promote?
11 MDI (7 veteran, 4 regular)
1 catapult
3 galleys (1 veteran, 2 regular)
We were STRONG to KISS on 100, then AVERAGE on 101. This presents a range for KISS:
100: KISS<462
101: KISS>481
a gain of at least 19
Darn. It was so beautifully elegant when it appeared that their strength grew by a single GS relative to us. Oh well. I must take more time in the future on these numbers. Carelessness is inexcusable.
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