The Free Spirits

Strider · Jan 30, 2006

Due to the pressing destruction of our individualist democracy, and the degrading of our system, I hereby announce the creation of the Free Spirits. The Free Spirits is a political party, who's sole purpose is to bring about it's own destruction.

The Free Spirit:

To aid independents who seek election.
To enact an amendment, that bans slate voting.

Do not ask us to support you for an office. The Free Spirits, as a group, will never universally support a single entity for an political poistion inside of the Democracy Game. Members are free to vote for any person they wish, regardless of political affiliation.

We stand united only in the creation of an amendment that will end our unity.

Memberlist:
Strider
Chieftess
CivGeneral
Chillaxation

Whomp · Jan 30, 2006

Good plan. I like it. :thumbsup:

I'm sure the "free spirits" will have plenty of good discussions about platform in this thread.

Strider · Jan 30, 2006

I'm going to write up a "proposed" amendment to be discussed inside of this thread, before we launch a real discussion. If you don't know what this amendment will contain, then you need to read the first post.

Beorn-eL-Feared · Jan 30, 2006

Strider, this is just what this game needed: an opponent :rotfl:

I'd join if I wasn't too monogamous to, or if I wasn't with the idiots already.

Chillaxation · Jan 31, 2006

Brilliant. I'd like to join.

DaveShack · Jan 31, 2006

That's interesting, you have two members who have not posted in the thread.

Moving politics out of the secrecy of PM's and direct chat links and into the forum is one of the purposes of citizen groups / parties. You will find that certain groups are very vocal and very open about certain policies -- and that's somewhat of a good thing. It is clear that this group was created in the secrecy of a back room.

strider said:
The Free Spirit:

To aid independents who seek election.

To enact an amendment, that bans political parties and slate voting.

How do you plan to aid independents? By choosing as a group to support people who are independent because they are independent? If you do that -- then you're a party and you're using slate voting.

An amendment to eliminate parties will be very difficult. It will be completely impossible to ban slate voting, because if there are no parties people will just go back into the shady world of private chat rooms and PMs.

BCLG100 · Jan 31, 2006

Pretty much what dave said really, its a nice idea and everything and is obviously a retaliation to other events but i dont like how this idea has come about not in the forum. So i wont be joining.

GeorgeOP · Jan 31, 2006

I like the idea, but I agree with Dave. It would become an impossible one to implement, and would be against the nature of Democracy. If we had a Fascist revolution we might be able to implement your plan, but until then we must put up with any and all political parties.

Strider · Jan 31, 2006

DaveShack said:
That's interesting, you have two members who have not posted in the thread.

Moving politics out of the secrecy of PM's and direct chat links and into the forum is one of the purposes of citizen groups / parties. You will find that certain groups are very vocal and very open about certain policies -- and that's somewhat of a good thing. It is clear that this group was created in the secrecy of a back room.

They haven't posted, because I wanted to get acouple of members to join before I posted the thread. I explained the party to them, and asked them to join. There was no cooperative movement, I figured that the party would be more successful with a larger starting member-base. People are more likely to join, if there jumping on the bandwagon.

DaveShack said:
How do you plan to aid independents? By choosing as a group to support people who are independent because they are independent? If you do that -- then you're a party and you're using slate voting.

An amendment to eliminate parties will be very difficult. It will be completely impossible to ban slate voting, because if there are no parties people will just go back into the shady world of private chat rooms and PMs.

All I have to say is... you need to learn how to shut the hell up about something you have no idea about. For your information, I was planning on using my writing skills to get independent platforms out in the open. As it says in the very first post, which you conviently overlooked, we will not universally, as a party, support any candidate for any poistion. These writings will never urge anyone to vote for the candidate, I may not even vote for them myself. Directing and leading people on the demogame workings, etc. may also aid them in an election.

Can you read? Use your head, and don't try to piss me off again.

DaveShack · Jan 31, 2006

Fair enough... I apologize for being so harsh, it was meant as an illustration of the irony of the appearance of how it was done. I comment on ideas, not on people.

I support people who have the skills, personality, and inclination to perform their leadership tasks well and in a timely manner. I also support the rights of people to give preference to people they know and trust. The "helping independents" part of this group is something I completely agree with, but the "outlawing parties" part is something I can't support.

Bengeance · Jan 31, 2006

@ Strider - Maybe I'm just misreading DaveShack's post, but I fail to see where his comments warrant the kind of personal attacks that you have leveled at him in response. His concerns are fair and reasonable for the proposal that you are making.

Even if he feels he was harsh in his wording, nothing he said was personal or directly negative.

Strider · Jan 31, 2006

Bengeance said:
@ Strider - Maybe I'm just misreading DaveShack's post, but I fail to see where his comments warrant the kind of personal attacks that you have leveled at him in response. His concerns are fair and reasonable for the proposal that you are making.

Even if he feels he was harsh in his wording, nothing he said was personal or directly negative.

He made a statement, with no information on the subject he was talking about, and conviently ignored previous statements in an attempt to further his own goals. He asked how I planned on aiding independents, then went on to say the following:

How do you plan to aid independents? By choosing as a group to support people who are independent because they are independent? If you do that -- then you're a party and you're using slate voting.

Asking how I planned on aiding independents does not bother me, but the "By choosing as a group to support people who are independent because they are independent? If you do that -- then you're a party and you're using slate voting." is what ticked me off. He attempted to apply a sub-standard, in an attempt to slander myself and my goals.

I say I have a pretty good reason to be pissed off at the moment.

Swissempire · Jan 31, 2006

I wouldn't but thats just me! :goodjob:

Anyway, while i feel down to my very core that we should have political parties, and lobbied for them in the first place, i am glad there is someone to put them in check. I always imagined there would be 4-5 semi strong ones, not 1-2 strong, 3-4 weak ones!

But don't lose faith in the system, and giants will always trip over something. First the IIP, then the Party and and maybe soon those of the low-iq's will have there support base lessend. In a very long game, the parties will continue to evolve, grow and shrink with the demogame. If we are in a prolonged war, there will be pro- and anti-war parties that when the war ends will shrink. Its simple history, both in the demogame and out of it!

In america there are now the Democrats and Republicans mostly, but before ther were the Feds and Anti-feds, the Whigs and the Democrtaic Republicans, the Populists, the list goes on! SO i respect Strider and this thread as a whole, but urge all to not lose faith.

Thats my two sense, good day!

Strider · Jan 31, 2006

I urge everyone who supports political parties, tell me, why do you consider them fun?

Swissempire · Jan 31, 2006

The comradery, the depth, the activity, and the help that they adds. The feeling that your a helpful party member working toward a productiv( in your eyes) goal! Its like a step up from Citiziens Groups!

ravensfire · Jan 31, 2006

Strider said:
I urge everyone who supports political parties, tell me, why do you consider them fun?

What hasn't happened, and what would be most interesting to me, would be to see a party develop a platform, a plan, and campaign on that platforum in all elections they are in. That would be great to see - a group of people with a plan, campaigning on that plan. That has not happened in any DG.

I think that would put some focus and energy in the political parties, and lead to more competition between them. Heck, the internal discussions alone to develop a platform will be fun to watch.

-- Ravensfire

Strider · Jan 31, 2006

Swissempire said:
The comradery, the depth, the activity, and the help that they adds. The feeling that your a helpful party member working toward a productiv( in your eyes) goal! Its like a step up from Citiziens Groups!

You've met my criteria exactly, your confusing a citizen group with a Political Party. What you said above describes a citizen group, a Political Party is basically the same thing, except with the addition of slate voting and elitism.

To summarize, a political party supports candidates for elections that meet there platforms, they tell they're members who to vote for. Eliminate that, and you have a citizens group.

Strider · Jan 31, 2006

ravensfire said:
What hasn't happened, and what would be most interesting to me, would be to see a party develop a platform, a plan, and campaign on that platforum in all elections they are in. That would be great to see - a group of people with a plan, campaigning on that plan. That has not happened in any DG.

I think that would put some focus and energy in the political parties, and lead to more competition between them. Heck, the internal discussions alone to develop a platform will be fun to watch.

-- Ravensfire

Unluckily, I'm not the type of person to do that. I prefer to do things myself, and handle things without any outside interference. I only ask for support in situtations that it's necessary.

Other peoples minds scare me.

ravensfire · Jan 31, 2006

Strider said:
Unluckily, I'm not the type of person to do that. I prefer to do things myself, and handle things without any outside interference. I only ask for support in situtations that it's necessary.

Other peoples minds scare me.

But it's perfectly fine for you to demand that others follow your method, your mind?

I think not.

The success of the political parties in maintaining activity is far, far beyond what citizen groups have accomplished in the past few years. Look at the Idiots group - you cannot find a single citizen group EVER that is that active. It's random, chaotic, but they are having fun. That is far and beyond the most important goal of this game.

It's hard to argue with anything that keeps people active and participating.

-- Ravensfire

Strider · Jan 31, 2006

ravensfire said:
But it's perfectly fine for you to demand that others follow your method, your mind?

I think not.

Demand? Doesn't look like demanding to me.

ravensfire said:
The success of the political parties in maintaining activity is far, far beyond what citizen groups have accomplished in the past few years. Look at the Idiots group - you cannot find a single citizen group EVER that is that active. It's random, chaotic, but they are having fun. That is far and beyond the most important goal of this game.

It's hard to argue with anything that keeps people active and participating.

The Spice Traders Guild... Demogame 1. A citizen group that achieved about the same as the Idoits have. There was also the Jedi Knight citizen group inside of Demogame 2 that achieved the same. (In reference to the total number of players anyway)

Same thing happened to them that will happen to the current set, people got bored of it. We have an influx of newer plays who are amazed by the flashing lights, but they will lose they're amazement sooner or later. Only question is, to the cost of how many other players?

They can have they're fun with the citizen groups, there is no need to allow slate voting and elitism.

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