Gator02 - Learning to Walk

DJMGator13

Still breathing
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
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Location
Leesburg, FL
Some Deity level C3C players making the jump to cIV were in need of some guidance. Bradleyfeanor stepped forward to lead this bunch of adventurers into uncharted territory. cIV is new ground for both Gator and leif, each having only limited time to play the new version have only logged 1 completed solo game. Brother Bede, another strong C3C player, has a little more experience in cIV and was eager to share his knowledge and learn more of this new game.

We would like another strong cIV player to join this group. Gator and Brad have pm’d a few people hoping to bring in another strong cIV player into the mix, but as of this posting we are awaiting word back from them. So for now we are reserving the 5th spot, but that may open up shortly.

Roster (not order)
Bede
bradleyfeanor
hendrikszoon (Special Guest Commentator)
Gator
leif
Bezhukov

Random draw except for map & level has given us a Monarch game as the Inca's on a continental map. Normal speed.

 
Looking forward to it. I've been stumbling through to winning positions so I still have much to learn.

:salute: to brad. I've watched your adventures in GOTM with some awe.
 
I am also looking forward to this. Thanks to Gator for setting it up. There is so much to learn about Civ4. :crazyeye:

And thanks to Brad and Bede for joining us. :wavey:
 
Hi there,

I was an emperor-deity player in civ3, I am a monarch-emperor player in civ4. I would join this team if there is an opening and if you had me on board.
 
I'll be available once either LK116 or TMcC02 ends. I've played way too much CivIV (just like when CivIII came out, and Civ II, and Test of Time, Call to Power, et al), with over ten Emperor wins (two defeats, a couple aborts) and one (lucky) Immortal win in my only try there.

I hosted a Sid Rise and Rule win last year, and played some SG's with you guys last year before being seduced by the sunshine. ;)
 
I got a response to one of my pm's and we have added a Guest Commentator to the team that may grab an occasional round. hendrikszoon has agreed to act in this role.

So for now I'll keep that 5th spot reserved until we hear back from 2 more players that were pm'd.

@bihary & Bezhukov - you 2 will be our first choice depending on how the other 2 players respond to our pm's. I'll list you as the alternates for now.
 
Thx, Gator. I'll be out of town until next Friday, but can lurk here and there until then. LK116 should be wrapping up in the next couple weeks, so I'll be available if needed after that.
 
DJMGator13 said:
I got a response to one of my pm's and we have added a Guest Commentator to the team that may grab an occasional round. hendrikszoon has agreed to act in this role.

So for now I'll keep that 5th spot reserved until we hear back from 2 more players that were pm'd.

@bihary & Bezhukov - you 2 will be our first choice depending on how the other 2 players respond to our pm's. I'll list you as the alternates for now.

Thanx gator, let us see how it goes. I am around and can jump in if needed.
Best,
Bihary
 
:wavey: all,

I'm looking forward to learning a lot from you guys in this game as well. I have a good amount of cIV experience, but I've only played one SG, and that was a few years ago. Although, I have lurked your games on many occasions. :) Should be fun!

So what difficulty/civ/victory etc. shall we go for? Most of my games thusfar have been Domination: I have only played one culture, one space and one conquest (4oTM2) through to the end, but I am up for any type of game you would like to play.

For those who are just getting their feet wet in cIV, the Leader we choose will have a much bigger impact on how we play the game than it would have had in C3C. An early emperor conquest with Saladin, for instance, should be played completely different than Catherine. There is only one guy I don't want to play: that supremely overpowered head-honcho, Caesar--unless you guys decide to play immortal or something.
 
I've toyed with a few Noble & Prince games in my learning process so far, what would be the equivalent match to the C3C emporer level? I don't want it to be too easy.

As for the choice of tribe and which leader we could set to random and take the first save we get once we decide the level.
 
DJMGator13 said:
I've toyed with a few Noble & Prince games in my learning process so far, what would be the equivalent match to the C3C emporer level? I don't want it to be too easy.

My guess would be monarch or emperor, although that is probably only because I don't know cIV from top to bottom like c3c.

One big difference between the two levels is that the powerful (and popular) Oracle slingshot to Civil Service strategy can usually be done on Monarch but not on Emperor. Although, if we are financial or have a good commerce start then it is possible even on Emperor and higher levels.

Edit: Monarch and Emperor are both pretty easy, it just takes longer to win on Emperor.
 
bradleyfeanor said:
Edit: Monarch and Emperor are both pretty easy, it just takes longer to win on Emperor.
I'll be looking forward to learning how to do that! :D

I would like to learn more about warmongering in Civ4. Either Monarch or Emperor is fine with me. I think we should avoid using a leader with the Organized or Creative traits. Or maybe have a short discussion about the traits and why they are important to setting objectives for a game?

Also, I have had trouble balancing how many cities to take with trying to keep up with maintenance costs and civics upkeep.

It seems to me that one needs to have a sense for what techs are needed ahead of time to fit in with a planned campaign to play well.
 
leif erikson said:
Also, I have had trouble balancing how many cities to take with trying to keep up with maintenance costs and civics upkeep.

Well I can show you how not to do it. I was cruising along in this game until I went to war and eliminated China. Now I'm not researching and losing 29gpt, my economy is about to collapse. I've only learned 1 civic tech and can't build courthouse. Militarily I'm top dog but I can't elimiate the Indians quick enough to try to get some techs.

Dawg01_01.jpg
 
leif erikson said:
I'll be looking forward to learning how to do that! :D

I would like to learn more about warmongering in Civ4. Either Monarch or Emperor is fine with me. I think we should avoid using a leader with the Organized or Creative traits. Or maybe have a short discussion about the traits and why they are important to setting objectives for a game?

Also, I have had trouble balancing how many cities to take with trying to keep up with maintenance costs and civics upkeep.

It seems to me that one needs to have a sense for what techs are needed ahead of time to fit in with a planned campaign to play well.

The last line you wrote is really good. I think an early tech plan is characteristic of any well-played game. I find that if I don’t have a plan after exploring my initial area then I play a really crappy, unfocused game.

Knowing how the different traits affect a game is certainly important to know in order to make that early plan a good one. Here is what I think of the traits with emphasis on how they relate to warmongering. What follows is just my take on things, and I am sure many others will disagree. There are four traits that have a big impact on the way I play a game: organized, aggressive, financial and philosophical.

The organized trait is one of my favorites. As Gator pointed out in his post, it’s very easy to overrun your economy in cIV. Once you get to Code of Laws, however, an organized civ gets a huge warmongering advantage over all the other traits: cheap courthouses. I tend to go for domination much earlier when I am an organized civ. All you have to do is ensure you have enough production to keep conquering once you start (ie, the ability to create lots of units), and make sure to have lots of workers following behind your army to chop those courthouses immediately. So organized has a huge impact on a game, in that you will not really need as many economic techs as you need in other games. Sometimes, I don’t even research currency when I’m organized. I just get to catapults and macemen or knights as quick as possible and go kill everybody. :)

Aggressive is much like organized in the way it affects gameplay, in that you can warmonger sooner. It doesn’t help you avoid the economic techs, but the strategy of having workers busy chopping behind the military is still a good one. Chopping those cheap barracks in conquered cities has a cumulative effect, and you end up with more experienced units on the battle fronts sooner. Also, you don’t have to worry about your units going obsolete as soon as you do in other games: a maceman with combat I and city raider II does a respectable job against longbowmen, for instance. Fast military units—which already are not nearly as important in cIV as they were in c3c—are even less valuable to aggressive civs. For that reason, my tech goal when aggressive is usually to get to macemen or grenadiers.

Considering that the current game of the month is with the organized/aggressive Japanese (my favorite warmongering civ), I think I just gave away my whole strategy. :(

Financial is very powerful and easy to use: just build more cities on the water and build more cottages, especially cottages on rivers. When I am financial I tend to go a bit deeper into the tech tree before warmongering. Printing Press, for instance, is often very nice to have as there are often more villages and towns.

Philosophical is my favorite trait, and it definitely impacts the way I play the game more than any other trait. I usually try to have at least two cities generating great people, and sometimes as many as five. The biggest impact philosophical has on gameplay is on the tech path. Carefully analyzing the starting terrain to determine what kind of great people you can run and how many of them is very important. This allows the choice of a tech path that uses Great People to research expensive techs much earlier in the game than is possible with another civ. Philosophical is also a very powerful trait in culture and diplomatic games.

The other four traits—Spiritual, Creative, Expansive and Industrious—don’t impact the way I play very much. I like expansive and creative at high difficulty levels where health and territory become much more important. I find Industrious to be completely useless after Emperor level, and I don’t think Spiritual is very useful no matter what level you are playing.

No matter what my traits are, I usually keep warfare limited until I am close to my tech goals so that I can have research turned off while making a push toward domination or conquest: that goes a long way toward keeping the economy from crashing.
 
Thanks Brad, nice rundown. :goodjob:

As we are trying to learn as we go, what do you think would be best, to use some of these traits or not?

The reason I thought not to use Organized is that I think it would be more difficult to control maintenance costs without that trait. Creative I thought because of the free culture per turn, which expands borders quicker and allows one to claim resources without building any culture in the city.

Learning to effectively utilize Great People might be a good goal.

Not sure, what do you all think?
 
If you want to experience the new features of civ4, I suggest Saladin. His traits encourage a strategy to utilize Religion and Great People.
 
I really like setting all conditions, including nation, but excluding level and land form (continents seem to offer the most variations on the theme), to random and playing the hand dealt. And I really like making lemons out of lemonade, e.g. Space Race victories in C3C with AGRI or COM nations and no SCI trait on random continental maps.

As for level, Monarch is a good one for this crowd, I think. Emperor would be doable, but not as much fun.
 
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