Design: Technologies

Agriculture- Bonus:corn, Bonus:rice, Bonus:wheat, Building:granary, Building:herbalist, Civic:agriculture
[tab]Animal Husbandry- Bonus:horse, Bonus:cow, Bonus: pig, Bonus:sheep, Building:smokehouse
[tab][tab]Horseback Riding- Unit:horseman, Building:stable
[tab][tab][tab]-[tab]Stirrups- Unit:horse archer [with archery]
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Warhorses- Unit:war chariot, Building:hippodrome [with trade]
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Domesticate Camels [requires animal handling]- Unit:camel archer, Building:large animal stables
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Domesticate Elephants- Unit:war elephant
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Armored Cavalry [requires lames]- Unit:knight
[tab]Calendar- plantation, Bonus:banana, Bonus:dye, Bonus:silk, Bonus:sugar, Wonder:tomb of sucellus
[tab]Festivals- Building:carnival, Building:market[tab]
[tab][tab]-[tab]Drama [requires education]- Wonder:sylivens perfect lyre, Building:theatre, can set culture
[tab]Fermentation- vineyard, Bonus:wine, Building:brewery
Ancient Chants- Building: obelisk, Civic:religion
[tab]Education- Civic:city states, Civic:apprenticeship
[tab][tab]Code of Laws- Building:courthouse, Civic:aristocracy, open borders
[tab][tab][tab]Currency- Building:moneychanger, Civic:consumption
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Taxation [requires mathematics]- Building:tax office, Civic:caste system
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Guilds [requires poisons]- Unit:shadow, Building:thieves guild, Civic:guilds
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Mercantilism- Building:tavern, Civic:mercantilism
[tab][tab][tab]Monarchy- Wonder:bone palace, Building:dungeon, Civic:hereditary rule
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Constitution [requires way of the wise]- Civic:republic
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Liberalism- Civic:liberty, Civic:free religion
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Feudalism [requires trade]- Civic:serfdom, permanent alliance
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Espionage [requires way of the wicked]- Unit:saboteur, Building:hidden court
[tab][tab]Warfare [requires bronze working]- Wonder:form of the titan, Civic:military state, Civic:conquest
[tab][tab][tab]Military Strategy [requires iron working]- trojan horse, Wonder:national epic, Civic:military discipline
[tab][tab]Writing- Building:library, Wonder:great library, free tech to the first civ to discover
[tab][tab][tab]Mathematics- Wonder:bazaar of mammon, Building:gambling house
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Alchemy- Unit:typhoid mary, Building:alchemy lab
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Blasting Powder [requires metal casting]- Bonus:gunpowder, cannon, arquebus
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Engineering [requires construction]- Unit:crossbowman, Wonder:guild of endeavors
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Machinery- Unit:heavy crossbowman [with bowyers], Building:machinists shop
[tab]Mysticism- Building:reagents, Wonder:Elder council, Civic:god king
[tab][tab]Knowledge of the Ether- Unit:adept, Building:Mages Guild, Building:catacomb libralus
[tab][tab][tab]Alteration- build body, dimensional, enchantment, metamagic and mind nodes
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Sorcery [requires writing]- Mage
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Arcane Lore [requires summoning]- Wonder:crown of akharien, Civic:scholarship
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Golem Mastery [requires construction]- Unit:copper golem, Building:golem workshop
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Strength of Will- archmage
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Omniscience [requires commune with nature]
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Armageddon [requires divine right]- Wonder:apocalypse, Wonder:bane divine, Wonder:blight, Wonder:blood of the phoenix, Wonder:glory everlasting, Wonder:wrath unleashed
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Future Tech
[tab][tab][tab]Divination- build creation, law, life, spirit and sun nodes, Wonder: oracle
[tab][tab][tab]Elementalism- build air, earth, fire, nature and water nodes, Wonder:eternal flame
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Summoning [requires writing]- Unit:Conjurer, Building:ring of warding
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Soul Debt- Wonder:soul forge
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Ethereal Call- summoner
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Pass Through the Ether- Building: obsidian gate, Wonder:nexus
[tab][tab][tab]Necromancy- build chaos, death, entropy and shadow nodes
[tab][tab]Philosophy- Building:incense, Building: pagan temple, Wonder: prophecy of ragnarok, Civic: pacifism
[tab][tab][tab]Awaken the Ancients- founds cult of the dragon
[tab][tab][tab]Priesthood [requires education]- Unit: priest, Wonder:altar of the luonnotar, Wonder: purge the unfaithful, Civic:religious discipline
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Fanaticism [requires monarchy]- Building:castle, Civic:nationhood, Civic:crusade
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Malevolent Designs [requires way of the wicked]- eidolon
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Rage [requires iron working]- berserkers, Building:bear totem
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Righteousness [requires way of the wise]- paladin
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Religious Law [requires code of laws]- Wonder:twisted spire, Civic: organized religion
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Theology- Unit:high priest, Wonder:hall of kings, Wonder:temple of temporence, Civic:theology
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Divine Right- Unit:inquisitor
[tab][tab][tab]Way of the Wicked
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Infernal Pact [requires knowledge of the ether]- founds the ashen veil, Unit:savant, Building:temple of the veil, Wonder:infernal grimoire
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Corruption of Spirit- Civic:sacrifice the weak
[tab][tab][tab]Way of the Wise- Civic: protect the meek
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Meditation- Unit:monk, Building:monastery
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Orders from Heaven [requires code of laws]- founds the order, Building:temple of the order
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Unquestioning Obedience- Building:basilica, Wonder:winter palace, Civic:social order
Crafting
[tab]Masonry- Bonus:marble, Bonus:stone, Wonder: pyramid, Building:walls
[tab][tab]Construction- Building:siege workshop
[tab][tab][tab]Sanitation- Wonder:aquae Sucellus, Building:aqueduct, Building: public baths
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Medicine [with education]- Building:infirmary, Civic: public healers
[tab]Mining- Building:gems, Building:gold
[tab][tab]Bronze Working- axeman, Bonus:copper, Building:barracks
[tab][tab][tab]Smelting- Building:forge
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Iron Working- Unit:maceman, Bonus:iron
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Metal Casting- Unit: pikeman, Building:drydock
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Lames- Unit:shield wall, Building:armorer
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Mithril Working- Bonus:mithril, Building:weaponsmith
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Divine Essence [requires theology]- Unit:immortal
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Mithril Weapons- Unit:spartiatoi
[tab][tab]Way of the Earthmother [requires mysticism]- founds runes of Kilmorph, Building:temple of Kilmorph
[tab][tab][tab]Arete- Wonder:mines of galdur, Civic:arete
Exploration- roads
[tab]Cartography- Wonder: pact of the nilhorn
[tab][tab]Trade- Building:inn, Unit:chariot, Civic:foreign trade
[tab][tab][tab]Deception [requires way of the wicked]
[tab][tab][tab]Honor [requires way of the wise]- Wonder:heroic epic, defensive pact
[tab]Fishing- Bonus:clam, Bonus:crab, Bonus:fish, Building:harbor
[tab][tab]Sailing- Building:whale, Wonder:great lighthouse, Building:lighthouse
[tab][tab][tab]Optics
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Astronomy- queen of the line [with engineering], arcane barge [with sorcery], Wonder:tower of eyes
[tab][tab]Message from the Deep [requires mysticism]- founds octopus overlords, Building:temple of the overlords
[tab][tab][tab]Mind Stapling- Building:asylum, Building: overseers residence, Building:theatre of dreams, Wonder:tower of complaceny, Civic:slavery
[tab]Hunting- Unit:hunter, Building:hunting lodge, Building:deer, Building:fur, Building:ivory
[tab][tab]Archery- Unit:archer, Building:archery range
[tab][tab][tab]-[tab]-[tab]Bowyers [requires construction]- Building:bowyer, Unit:longbowman
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Precision [requires military strategy]- Unit:marksman
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Celerity- Unit:flurry
[tab][tab]Tracking
[tab][tab][tab]Animal Handling [requires animal husbandry]- Unit:ranger
[tab][tab][tab][tab]Feral Bond- Unit:baron duin halfmorn, Building:grove
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Animal Mastery- Unit:beastmaster
[tab][tab][tab][tab][tab]Commune with Nature [requires elementalism]- Unit:druid, Wonder:genesis
[tab][tab][tab]Poisons [requires way of the wicked]
[tab][tab]Way of the Forests [requires mysticism]- founds fellowship of leaves, Building:temple of leaves
[tab][tab][tab]Hidden Paths- Wonder:yggdrasil, Civic:guardian of nature

Reserved for ideas under consideration.

After dealing with the tech tree for the Lunar mod I wouldn't mind trying to put this one together eventually, unless it needs heavy Python. I can do the drudgery of XML and don't mind spending tons of time of it since I feel it's vital to a great mod.

Here's my latest. Most units, buildings, and wonders are placed.

Updated again. Fixed some teir discrepancies in the civics section, and some repeated wonders and units.

Hey i noticed that monotheism is no longer there. IMO you should replace polytheism with monotheism, because this is FfH, where i'm killing you becuase my god is better than your god.
Seriously, i think monotheism is better in this world than polytheism. Polytheism is generally more tolerant about other religions.

Both of them have been removed, as they are both silly and obvious when confronted with a world where the gods do walk. The religion path has been totally re-worked.

I've started to work on the XML for this, but I'm slower than crap in a glacier. I hate that I can't just magically modify the technologies folder and run the game and see if my grid works.

Lunargent said:

I've started to work on the XML for this, but I'm slower than crap in a glacier. I hate that I can't just magically modify the technologies folder and run the game and see if my grid works.

Click to expand...

I wouldnt worry abotu the xml. Just work on the design, we wont be ready for a formal tech tree for a while yet. The tech tree is always the last part. Besides I will probably create an excel spreadsheet that will write all the xml for me like I do with the other files (I prefer to work out of an excel spreadsheet and dont work out of xml very much anymore).

Ok, that's cool then. It's mostly done for now then, until we start nailing some more stuff down.

I'm mostly curious to see whether or not you want to include all the religions. They'd have a big impact on the design of the tree if they are.

Lunargent said:

Ok, that's cool then. It's mostly done for now then, until we start nailing some more stuff down.

I'm mostly curious to see whether or not you want to include all the religions. They'd have a big impact on the design of the tree if they are.

Click to expand...

No, we still have more detail to add to the religions we have. If any new religions come it it would just be 2-3.

I noticed in the civilizations thread that you gave the elves and dwarves elven studies and dwarven studies as starting techs. I'm going to completely re-do the tech tree later, but those right now are pretty high up the tree for starters. Do you want them moved down to beginning level techs? Maybe even freebie hidden techs such as the seafaring trait tech?

Lunargent said:

I noticed in the civilizations thread that you gave the elves and dwarves elven studies and dwarven studies as starting techs. I'm going to completely re-do the tech tree later, but those right now are pretty high up the tree for starters. Do you want them moved down to beginning level techs? Maybe even freebie hidden techs such as the seafaring trait tech?

Click to expand...

No. They just need new names. As "Elven Studies" it didnt make since for anyone to beat the elves to it. But given a better name it doesn't bother me if they don't start with it.

Ok. I have plans for making it easier for certain civs to get to their religion founding tech easier,and to change the names.

I've been playing around with some other mods, to see how they've done their own tech trees. One things interesting that comes up is in the Ancient mediterranean mod. There it is possible to start a religion extremely early. (like before you have a second city early).... Not sure how good an idea this is, but it's kinda interesting to meet your neighbor for the first time and already have a -3 reaction because they have a different religion.

Added a requirement for techs that allow building of the various mana resource harvesting improvements. They dont have to be techs specific to this purpose but they need to be considered of when and where they will be gained.

I really like the idea of an OO tech. What if there was one for each religion?
Order-whenever a city (not capital) has 1 or less maintenance, some research is added to the tech.
Runes-whenever a new metal is discovered in their borders?
Fellowship-A forest is planted? A forest spreads?
AV-A demon kills a living enemy.

Hmm, yeah, I like the idea of a tech that you can't research normally. It would have to be something powerfull- armageddonish, to make it worth the trouble, but it would give you another goal in game and be cool to boot. Maybe this could even replace the armageddon counter. Combine the different religon counter with a magic specific counter and you'd unlock the various armageddon wonders.

Runes would have to be something else, because new metals are discovered only a few times per game. Maybe everytime they make a golem.....I dunno. To continue my idea above- make 50 golems as a civ with earth magic and unlock the mithril golem.

Perhaps you could change the line in the OP that says that a preliminary tech tree hasn't been put together yet?

Lunargent said:

Hmm, yeah, I like the idea of a tech that you can't research normally. It would have to be something powerfull- armageddonish, to make it worth the trouble, but it would give you another goal in game and be cool to boot. Maybe this could even replace the armageddon counter. Combine the different religon counter with a magic specific counter and you'd unlock the various armageddon wonders.

Runes would have to be something else, because new metals are discovered only a few times per game. Maybe everytime they make a golem.....I dunno. To continue my idea above- make 50 golems as a civ with earth magic and unlock the mithril golem.

Perhaps you could change the line in the OP that says that a preliminary tech tree hasn't been put together yet?

Click to expand...

Will do.

Lunargent said:

Hmm, yeah, I like the idea of a tech that you can't research normally. It would have to be something powerfull- armageddonish, to make it worth the trouble, but it would give you another goal in game and be cool to boot. Maybe this could even replace the armageddon counter. Combine the different religon counter with a magic specific counter and you'd unlock the various armageddon wonders.

Runes would have to be something else, because new metals are discovered only a few times per game. Maybe everytime they make a golem.....I dunno. To continue my idea above- make 50 golems as a civ with earth magic and unlock the mithril golem.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I was worried about that for runes. What if it were everytime a treasure trove was discovered? ie: mines find a resource, find a dragon's treasure, get gold from a goody hut, etc.

Kael said:

Need 3 techs (good, neutral, evil) that will allow harvesting of mana nodes (maybe even broken down more granuarly than this):
1. Good tech allows improvements for: Law, Spirit, Creation, Sun, Enchantment and Life.
2. Neutral tech allows improvements for: Force, Metamagic, Nature, Earth, Water and Air.
3. Evil tech allows improvements for: Body, Mind, Entropy, Chaos, Dimensional, Shadow, Fire and Death.

Click to expand...

What if you started with the one for your civ's alignment. Then research would go to the other ones if a variety of ways:
a) if you were worshipping a religion you could research the tech for its alignment.
b) getting a holy city for a religion gives you that religion's alignment's tech.
c) once you had researched all 5 of the religion founding techs you could research any of the alignment node techs.

All of those are pretty rare, they certainly won't rack up the kind of counts that the others would get, and they also have the dis-advantage of being entirely out of your control.

Maybe....some combination of number of times that you build a golem plus number of mines that you dig with your dwarves? The mines wouldn't hve to neccesarily find anything (which is out of your control, and rare to boot), but you can cover every hill inside your borders that you want with a mine- it doesn't even have to be within any city's fat cross.