Rat12 - Team Challenge AWN

the game setup:
standard great plains with only 6 Civs, 3 teams,
Raging barbs since we have only 6 Civs
AWN, Civs all random



start game and we turn out to be Cyrus working with Monte

our starting position


and our teammate



Roster
ThERat
Immaculate
Landmonitor
open
open

2 open spots, any takers?

lurker's comment: I'm in too many SG's at the moment, but will definitely lurk.

Lurkmode ON!
This looks fun, I might have to try it in a single player game, never even thought of it before this!

start game and we turn out to be Cyrus working with Monte

our starting position

and our teammate

Click to expand...

I must say that i am pleased.
1) Cyrus doesn't get played much and needs the love.
2) Look at all the lumber!!! We can leave it all in place and be SO HEALTHY.
3) River!!! Cha-ching! Also, easy transport of our (horse) resource.

Military: We have a strong ancient era Unique Unit. Our ally, Monte, does also (well, maybe not strong, but at least its ancient era and he will probably try to make them early). Perhaps we should consider trying to eliminate one team-member from each of the other two teams with early immortals (we do have A LOT of trees that we could use to feed soldiers and horses). That would leave us in a position to tech up twice as fast since we would have a team-mate and they would not. The net effect would be a tech slow-down for all teams, something a human player can recover from more easily i believe (especially if they still have a strong team-mate and others do not).

Tech: Am i right in thinking that we start the game with persian hunting, persian agriculture, aztec mysticism and aztec hunting? (blow-darts and poison dart frogs AND spears- the barbarian animals don't stand a chance.) Two techs that i think will be important for our early game would be animal handling (for horse pastures) and bronze working (we have a LOT of woods and woods on hills are better served as mines while woods near the river are a waste of commerce- although the others can probably be left for a bit maybe). With all the barbs out, immortals would serve us well as a rapid-response force. Monty's research is additive to ours too isn't it? He is likely to concentrate on religion or war techs early. I don't think that even with mysticism there is too much to be gained by trying for an early religion (watch me have to eat those words) BUT if monty is trying for budhism or hinduism out of the gate, we may want to help him research it to get the lock on that particular tech before the AI teams do. We have not seen the entirety of our starting area- we may decide that we need mining much more quickly for example if we determine there are gems or gold around. Alternatively, we may wish to get pastures more quickly if we have cows or pigs.

Starting position: Woods, hills and a fertile river. No food resources visible yet (sorry Landmonitor- doesn't look like its gonna be cottage country unless we find a couple food resources). It DOES suit my style of play though. I like the farm/mining combination for strong hammers in my capital city and there is a great potential for that here.

Opening moves: Pop the hut with the scout for greater chance at better goodies? Then move north-west to be one tile west of the settler? This would provide a greater idea of what the lay of the land is and can help us decide if we want to move our starting settler. A food resource at our capital would be really nifty- thats right- i said it.



Anyway, thats my thinking.
Immac



EDIT: Woot! 5 posts!

good thoughts here, I agree with early tactics, we need animal husbandry and bronze and then get some immortals out to oppress the AI. Maybe noble will be too easy for immortals.

Anyway, will play 30-40 turns tonight (this is epic speed) and then you all can play 20, but I would love to see 2 more players join

save

1. 4000BC
us: do as suggested, get scout to hut
well we get a map, settle Persepolis on the spot and starts a warrior
go for mining now
Monte: settles on the spot and goes for mining as well taking it down to 7 turns
he also starts a warrior in 3 (he apparently gets a 12hammer bonus from the start)

2. 3960BC
us: scouting
Monte: scouts south and spots a hut

3. 3920BC
us: scouting
Monte: pops hut and gets another scout

4. 3880BC
us: scout west and spot a hut
Monte: as both scouts move into almost the same direction

before


after


5. 3840BC
us: pop hut for yet another map, which reveals Bejing, but we have no contact since its within the FOW
Monte: goes for another warrior, scouts

6. 3800BC
us: scouting
Monte: he runs 1 tile off a hut, which he could have clearly reached this turn

7. 3760BC
us: scout and run into the northern limit of the map
Monte: he must have gotten money from the hut and runs into Saladin and we are at war with both
Saladin and Bismarck

8. 3720BC
us: scout
Monte: he has 44gpt and makes 1gpt, changed warrior to rax and the warrior isn't even in the queue?
he gets mining first and goes for archery

9. 3680BC
us: make the decision to go for BW in 29
Monte: scout almost runs into Saladin warrior

10. 3640BC
us: we get our first warrior, go for another until we grow for a worker
Monte:

11. 3600BC
us: scouting
Monte: grows to pop 2

12. 3560BC
us: scout spots a hut in the northeast
Monte: grows to pop 2, he works the proper tiles IMHO

13. 3520BC
us: pop hut and get experience
Monte: scouts

14. 3480BC
us: woodsman 2 for our scout, swap to worker now since our city grew to pop 2
Monte: scouts

15. 3440BC
us: scouting zzz
Monte: shows dumb scouting pattern as both scouts almost cover the same area, how dumb is that?

16. 3400BC
us: zzz
Monte: I now realize that Monte has 89gold and runs at 90% science, really smart

17. 3360BC
us: zzz
Monte: a scout is wounded badly

18. 3320BC
Hinduism gets founded in Beijing
us: zzz
Monte: scouts

19. 3280BC
us: spot one more hut
Monte:

20. 3240BC
us: how much stupid can it get, 2 maps and now the 2nd exp from a hut, we have a 10exp scout
Monte: scouts both hurt badly

21. 3200BC
us: scouting
Monte: grows to pop 2

22. 3160BC
us: scout near hut near Monte
Monte: check Monte's city since he has pop 3 now, this is interesting, he gets rax and goes for settler though
he has only 1 warrior, is he waiting for archery before switching to archer?

23. 3120BC
us: pop hut and finally get some cash, 64gold
Monte: zzz

24. 3080BC
us: zzz
Monte: scouts

25. 3040BC
us: spot yet another hut near Saladin
Monte: gets archery but doesn't start a new tech???

26. 3000BC
us: oh man, we get our scout to exp 15 with the hut
Monte: Monte switches to BW shortening the research to 5 turns, good boy

27. 2960BC
us: we have our first worker, go back to warrior in 3
Monte: Monte gets more gold from hut

28. 2920BC
us: start camp to connect deer
Monte: scouts

29. 2880BC
us: zzz
Monte:

30. 2840BC
us: we get 2nd warrior go for rax for now

BW is ready in 2, would go for animal husbandry next so we now where to settle
we got plenty of forest around for chops
if we have immortals we can get after the AI which is VERY close


I am curious whether Monte really sends out a settler without any escort, too hard to believe

our city


Monte's capital, note the research rate

Roster
ThERat - just played 30 turns
Immaculate - up for 20 turns
Landmonitor
open
open

this juicy game has still 2 open spots, do not hesitate and join

Not a sign-up...

... but I don't think I've ever seen a 15exp scout before

I will play

Rat, Greebly (my girlfriend would laugh at your name- she loves that word), and Landmon, what do you three (and lurkers too of course- always want to hear from as many as possible) think of trying to chop out a settler before the barracks are finished (say in about 2 turns when BW comes in) to get a second production city up before we even know where horses are) then maybe get our third city to a horse tile (if the first two don't serve)?

This would provide a greater number of immortals in the short-medium term but may adversely affect our research rate.

The tiles to the northwest of our capital seem to have more river plains with hills to supply a nice stream of immortals while also providing a floodplain for a cottage (are you happy to hear that landmon?). Alternatively we could farm the floodplain and work more hills earlier. This could be a mostly production, some research city. I'll have to get home and check out the map more closely but the more i think about it, the more i like the idea of doubling our production by the time that immortals are available. Two cities may translate into 2x as many immortals in the short-medium term. Or it may not.

Also, any ideas on what tech to grab after animal handling. Do we want pottery for cottages ASAP?

Lets hope for copper near our capital for the production boost. More hammers=more immortals.

Also, some noob questions about the always war option: Are the other two teams going to declare war on each other automatically? Will members of one team declare war on one member of another team and remain peaceful with the second member of the team? Will they delcare war on Monty too when they declare war on us?

Thats some interesting behavior on the part of the AI. I don't understand the 90% research thing. Why would they want a money buffer at this stage of the game (unless he is making sure he will have money to be able to upgrate the warrior he has already put some shields into- even if he did abandon it). Is this a monty thing or a general AI thing? And the settler before escort seems off also. Maybe he is pre-building most of it before the escort. oh well, i am sure it will all fit together; i just need to be patient and keep watching.

I can't "got it" yet 'cause i am at school, but i will will tonight and probably play over the late-night, early morning and post by tomorrow.

Got it (10 characters)

Pre-turn:

First thing I did was check out Monty’s city:


He has barracks and one warrior in his capital and is building a settler (due in 9). He has quite a bit of cash accumulated (I would guess that he popped some money huts).

I then checked out our city:


We don’t have the barracks that Monty does and we are smaller but we have one thing he doesn’t: a worker. I think I would rather have the worker then one more size and a barracks. Tile selection looks great.

We are producing two more culture/turn then Monty is. Thank you creative trait.

I then started to think about the military situation. Here is the zoomed-out view:


With the always war option enabled, we can expect company sooner rather then later I would suspect (but am not sure- never played that option before).

Lastly, my first intention is to found a production city ASAP. Here is a look at the terrain and the bonuses available:


Based on what I see here, I think that health resources (especially considering that we are expansionist) will be quite adequate but that happiness resources may be a little bit in short supply. Hopefully we will control Bejing by the time Monarchy comes around and we will be able to control their wine. At least we have furs.

And, in a long list of first, here is my first attempt at a dot-map (at least the beginning thereof). Unless someone says something I will be building:



Beavers do not excite me terribly (and we will expand to control that tile for resource-control purposes later anyway), so I am tempted to build on purple to allow for lots of food resources from the wheat. This will let Landmonitor cottage the flood plains and the grasslands, while allowing me to build some mines so we can get two production based, barrack-ready cities for early production of Immortals.

I think purple is fine, I also agree to chop some forest for a settler, but I had to wait for BW. After BW go for AH.

AW means that we will be at war as a team against the other 2 teams. However, team 2 will not be at war with team 3, so we have to fight the other 2 teams while they only fight us (as a team). If we can we might want to help Monte if he is in trouble at times.

Roster
ThERat - just played 30 turns
Immaculate - up for 20 turns
Landmonitor - please check in
Greebley - welcome
open - one more spot here available

1st Turn (2800BC):

We have made contact with Mansa Musa/Qin Shi Huang and declared war on them. Soon you will taste Immortal steel pinkie.


Because we will be getting bronze working next turn I get into position to chop a forest:

Press Enter.


2nd Turn (2760BC):

We develop copper and see that we have two sources in the area. The pig/copper combination to our northeast now appears like a nicer and nicer area to settle.


And Monty:

I want to slap this stupid maniac. Fishing? Fishing? FISHING? FOR ONE TILE? K- I hope you are about as attached to researching fishing as you were to producing a settler. You’ll notice that he is now making an archer. Tile selection remains the same as it was previously. I think fishing will make researching writing a bit more efficient (but am not sure) but besides that I don’t think there is a heck of a lot to be gained by researching this technology on this map.


I am going out to visit a couple, which are friends of my gf, with the lady, so this will be it until i return. (we are playing settlers which is like the board-game version of civ and is so much fun- i would recommend it to any who like civ)

Making these little write-ups takes longer then i expected but its a lot of fun.
I will play/write more tonight. At this rate it will take awhile to get through 20 turns but not all turns will be as exciting as the development of bronze working. Unfortunately, at this rate, we won't get horsies in my turn so i think i will only prepare the two cities we will have at the end of my turn for some military and hope Landmonitor can get us a horsie-city.

Also, our 17 xp scout is gonna need a name.

You can count me in. Looks like fun.

more Monte fishing

I am sure in this game we can learn a lot about the AI behaviour
What already really puzzled me is why he researches at 90% when he has plenty of cash. And why does he build a settler, then doesn't complete it and switches now to an archer (I hope he is going back to settler as not to lose some hammers)

welcome Talamane, also HOM indicated at the other thread that he is interested, so we play with 6

Roster
ThERat
Immaculate - currently playing
Landmonitor - please check in
Greebley
Talamane
HOM

Purple seems good to me.

I do like going for Pottery early. I also like chopping for settlers.

I think we should irrigate 2 (or so) of the grasslands first and then go with cottages. That way we will have decent growth and start improving toward towns.

I think working the irrigation and cottages while using forest chops so our capitol has shields is best. I would leave some (4?) forests for later though - we can always chop outside the 2 radius if we need more shields.

Agree on town 2 going for shields.

K- i am back from playing settlers. One of the rules is that you have to call the winner, "Your lordship" until next time you play with them. That ain't me. Hopefully i will have better luck with this game.

We obviously are going to need to train some worker functions (pottery, wheel, agriculture) before we start worrying too much about these improvements. We can build mines though. I think we should go for road after animal handling. This provides:

a) roads to connect horsies and copper
b) IMMORTALS!!!

Also, my pictures are turning up as small baby pictures and not the big ones like 'thERat' pics. Can anyone suggest what i am doing wrong?

Agree that Immortals are probably highest priorty. Agriculture and Pottery follow (in that order).

Why agriculture before pottery? For earlier use of mines?

On with the game.
I got to say this is pretty fun. Very creativesque.

I continue our last turn:

I also rename our super scout because he’s a toughie.



3rd Turn (2720BC):
Looks like Monty will get a hut next turn. I checked his money and he has 143$. I hope he gets a tech for us.


Am I wrong or would this picture indicate that a trade route would be available from us to Monty if we were to bust the unmapped dark spots I have circled in this picture. Also, I propose the 3rd city placed here (x) so we can get the copper hooked up earlier rather then later. We don’t KNOW we will have horses close and either way, axemen need copper. Also the river will connect this city with our capital. An active trade route available right away might be worth pursuing, so much so, in fact, that this may make a better 2nd city.


Now, I know that the initial reaction to this city isn’t that positive because we lose a line of 3 tiles both between it and purple as well as to the north due to the end of the map. None-the-less, it provides some very immediate benefits and will help us in the short term quite a bit. Landmonitor says I am sprinter and he is a marathon runner when we play CIV4 (based on very limited game-play, but whatever), but these short-term benefits are not bad.
It provides:
a) a very early trade route without investing a road.
b) copper
c) nice production with a river for a BIT more commerce. I would rather be working a mined hill near a river then a mined hill without any commerce, which is what you are looking at here due to the river.
d) food we can use! One of those is that it allows us to use the technologies we have already learned. We have knowledge of animal handling soon; lets make use of it and pasture the pigs. This will allow more mining (and more immortals). The purple city needs agriculture to grow and we don’t have that yet. Lets use what we can now- this game is about exponential mathematics after-all (but don’t ask me to explain it- I have no exact ideas).