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Old Mar 06, 2006, 07:48 AM   #1
luckynick
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emperor queshuarush starting

i was wondering at wich highest level i could acheive a queshua rush early city grab.

i have to say it work in emperor, standard map, marathon speed (not tried yet on immo/deity)

Research mining then BW

Build 2 additionnals queshua while researching, use them to scout out but don't send them far away.
Begin barrack.

Try to max science in your city, anyway you should always try to works tiles that give the most output (ie oasis are great since they give 3 food and 3 commerce and don't require fishing)

walk your way with your scout, try to level up 2 queshua by hunt animals (not bears) doing this by defending in forest/jungle or best forested hills.
Anyway avoid losing troops at all cost, you can withstand one loss if you manage to level up the 2 other.
Promote them with cover.

once you now who is your closest open (capitolwise) position one quesh near any worker that is improving a tile (patrol around your ennemy capitol to found one).

Then things can begin to warm up. calculate time you will need to bring a captured worker safely to your own grounds (i mean escorted) and try to synchronise with the time needed to hit BW in research.
BTW do not allow the worker to go out of reach. If it will finish his impro next turn and you guess there is no anymore work for him to do go capture ihim right now.

Once your newly aquired worker is at his new homeland, chop rush a second one but let your pop go to 2 before if possible. then chop your still unfinished barrack, then chop rush 4 additionnal quesh. gather your 6 quesh near ennemy capitol and pick it up.

During the time needed to gather your small army near ennemy land, you have to continue to chop rush at least 2 more quesh. If you discover that the ennemy city is on a hill, bring them too while pillaging any mine/farm (but no other impro since you will not be able to rebuild them soon) with your 6 man rush army. at 8 guys pick the capitol on a hill.

Regarding the surely-by-now-settled-second-city of your ennemy you should conquer and keep it if the distance from your main city isn't too long (i mean more distant than your recently captured second city)
Otherwise raze it (one guy less)

Recovering from conquest : if you decide to raze the city, you will need to chop rush a settler for a 3rd city (use your remaining quesh to guard worker/cities and produce some more if needed)

After BW you should beeline to pottery then writting, only exception is having a fair amount of coastal square workable, if so get fishing first as it's cheap and let you get research while your cottages get planted.

As you guess once you have 3 city and 3 worker, start spamming cottage to get back to decent science rate (i mean not 150 turn to get writting )

If yu feel angrier, you can try to fight more. but remember raze and genocide any attacked opponent as their city would be too far away to keep them.
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 04:27 AM   #2
Heeringas
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Yesterday I tried small map emperor game with Huyana...queshuas are actually really good, but only short time and only against enemy without copper, iron. So speed is a key. I chopped about 8 queshuas, but I already sended 5 first to capture Cyrus capital. I only build one city ( I played with 11 opponents in small map so no space for me to settle own cities...Cyrus was dead in few turns and I had 4 cities. I decleared war on Mao and captured two of his cities, but then he was able to build swordmans...too bad...I really was behind in techs...huh...well it was my first try on emperor...11 civs makes a map little too crowded, but at least there are some capitals really close to yours...I haven´t finnish that game yet and maybe won´t...
But one question. What is the best promotion for queshuas? I gave them city raider or +25vs. archers, later if left them to protect the city...
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Old Mar 07, 2006, 03:51 PM   #3
luckynick
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for promotion always use the +25 vs archer first, because it works anyxhere not just when you attack cities.
Of course when you get new promos it will be city raider 1 then 2 then 3 if it happens.

Regarding followup of the starting, you basically have 2 choices but choices are made for you by the situation usually.

1 . you have muchas trees and easy access to copper (near your capitol or one city you captured) then you can go for a war stomping machine using axemen.
You want to make the decision when you want to go to iron working and swordsmen. Usually if you are lucky with gold/gem/silver you can go for IW directly from wheel otherwise get pottery first. I would get pottery first because when your cottages are planted and worked they will grow auto bringing more research for latter use.

2. you do not have easy access to copper then you have to stop warfare for a while. go for pottery then spam cottage (don't forget to get enough workers if you play on marathon because improvements are very slow to make (12 turns for a cottage IE). depending of your situation, either go for writting next or IW directly. It all depends of your research capacity and aggro from neibourghs. If you don't have access to iron (even by settling) then you are in bad shape but it's very rare, especially when you have 2 strating sites in your bag. You can try to get archery but i don't think it's a good tactic because research is very long in marathon and you need to get hunting first.

If things are going well then you can go to alphabet and cross trade missing small techs (do not trade alphabet if possible, and more : NEVER trade alphabet to mansa moussa, because he trade frenetcly with everyone, even his worst ennemy). Then after tha get drama or maths, usually maths to get currency next.
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 11:20 AM   #4
Pete2006
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I've never had a successful game using the quecha rush. I focus too much production on building quechas and spend to much on their upkeep and supply cost when at war. I can always get a capital or two but am then pretty far behind in tech compared to the other AI.
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 11:28 AM   #5
Heeringas
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You might be right pete, I didn´t play that game long enough to see If I have chences to rebuild my economy, but atleast after the rush I was really badly behind in tech...
somehow axeman rush works better, they come little later, so you have time to build your basic economy and then start the war, but quequas you need to start building right in the beginnnig or they are not so succesfull fighters anymore...This at least happens in harder difficulty levels...But I guess any technique work lower than prince...no matter how your start goes...
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 03:10 PM   #6
luckynick
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2 things :

if you don't play marathon, forget about queshuarush

if there is no capitol in a 20 tile circle from your own one, forget it too


and more :
if you think you can get and keep 2 caps you re not following this strat.
You keep one, raze the others if you manage to conquer them, and if you are able to do so then it mean you re able to reap out 2 opponent at start since i ve said before, : don't let an attacked one alive, he will recover, and he will remember !
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Old Mar 26, 2006, 03:46 AM   #7
Gumbolt
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Not tried this strategy yet but if the capital is not close would captured civic costs be a huge headache?

Has anyone won a game using this strategy on emperor?
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Old Mar 27, 2006, 02:03 AM   #8
luckynick
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if the nearest capital is too far away you will know it early on enough to switch back to regular choprush fast rexing.

The key to every game is to adapt yourself to the situation. It is pointless to stick up on a strat when you know it will fail.
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Old Apr 19, 2006, 02:12 AM   #9
joyodongo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete2006
I've never had a successful game using the quecha rush. I focus too much production on building quechas and spend to much on their upkeep and supply cost when at war. I can always get a capital or two but am then pretty far behind in tech compared to the other AI.
Me neither. I play Monarch, pangaea, standard, normal speed. 20/30 tries. Never succeded. I must say I'n not very good at monarch yet, but with the praetorian rush I succeded the 2nd try. So, something doesn't work. I also think that you waste a lot of time at the beginning ang your economy never recovers.

Saludos.
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Old Apr 19, 2006, 08:56 AM   #10
Zombie69
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Quechua rushes also work on Immortal even after the new patch. I've done it in my current game. I don't know about Deity. The AI at that level gets so many bonus units. It probably still works though.
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Old Apr 19, 2006, 08:59 AM   #11
Shadowsong
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I just submitted a 3780 BC Deity Duel Conquest in HoF.

Last edited by Shadowsong; Apr 20, 2006 at 04:42 AM.
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Old Apr 19, 2006, 09:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joyodongo
Me neither. I play Monarch, pangaea, standard, normal speed. 20/30 tries. Never succeded.
Quecha rush works best in Duel maps, Praetorian rush works best in Larger maps.
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Old Apr 19, 2006, 01:15 PM   #13
joyodongo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowsong
Quecha rush works best in Duel maps, Praetorian rush works best in Larger maps.
Definitely. I struggle on monarch and I succeeded with no problem on my first attempt with incas in Emporer-pangaea-duel-normal speed. The thing is, I want to win with incas in standard maps-monarch.

Saludos.
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Old Apr 19, 2006, 03:23 PM   #14
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Then you should try a Terra map. It's basically the same as Pangea, but on a smaller land mass. Just ignore the other continent and conquer everything.
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Old Apr 19, 2006, 07:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbolt
Has anyone won a game using this strategy on emperor?

Here is my story of an emperor win:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=158823

It was on normal speed, 1.52 and I never chopped any quechuas.
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Old Apr 20, 2006, 04:45 AM   #16
Shadowsong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joyodongo
Definitely. I struggle on monarch and I succeeded with no problem on my first attempt with incas in Emporer-pangaea-duel-normal speed. The thing is, I want to win with incas in standard maps-monarch.

Saludos.
Here is an entry from HoF http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game...hp?entryID=541. It was won by SpikeSpy , Incans, Huge and Domination. Look at the logs and the saves for research .
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Old Apr 21, 2006, 04:01 AM   #17
Kalleyao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowsong
I just submitted a 3780 BC Deity Duel Conquest in HoF.
I'm not suprised. I look forward to see your logs.
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Old Apr 21, 2006, 06:24 PM   #18
Gumbolt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playshogi
Here is my story of an emperor win:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=158823

It was on normal speed, 1.52 and I never chopped any quechuas.

*waiting for part 2 of story*

The science hit seems a big issue but i guess targeting certain technologies works around this. Go for what you need rather than every tech on the board

End of day Queshua rush is a good idea for its bonus v's archers but cause you need a lot of them its a costly strategy. If 5 of them fail to take a city it adds another costly dilema too. Still what war doesnt have casualties. Still not bad for a early cheap UU that needs no resources to build. You can still get free techs from peace agreements.

Opportunity cost at start of quechas v's settler/workers. Might be more valuable building units to capture workers and cities instead of building 3-4 cities. I guess it depends on closeness of AI/ Barbarian cities and location of cities.

Hmmm i think i will try this strat next game after i finish off my French game.
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Old Apr 24, 2006, 09:59 AM   #19
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I tried this strategy. I was able to take out the Mongols capital boxed in by the sea. Then went on to attack the Chinese and Japan. Although i did not fully wipe them out i was able to capture stone henge and another few cities. I managed to get Ironworking from a hut but beyond that the Americans were 2-3 techs ahead till 1200ad. I was able to use the Romans to declare war on Japan/America in later game play although 6/7 Religions were not found on my island.Managed to nab Islam come 1200ad.

Up to about 17 cities although my GP farm is desparate for a religion.

Archers in the open are easy prey. I was happy to produce queshua instead of axemen for a bit but in the end i used them to mop up weakened archers. i got one up to level 6 after it got extra experience from a hut.Now upgraded to a macemen

My only issue on this game was china/Japan were 14 squares away from capital. Mongals 11 squares away. Not ideal in terms of stealing workers and keep troops close together. Still it was fun trying this. 3 other civs left to find and 3 more on island to destroy.
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Old May 14, 2006, 08:42 PM   #20
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i'll have to try this on my next game. thanks from a builder turn warmonger.
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