The Quest for Culture (QfC) - An ex-n00b Production

Well, here we are again, fellow friends. Let's rehash the game settings:

Map: Terra
Diff: Prince
Map Size: Standard
Our Civ: The Indians - Gandhi (Spiritual/Industrious)
Game Speed: Epic
Victory Type:

All other settings as per normal/default.

The Roster:
Sadan
Beef
Pling
Chriseay
Admiral Kutzov

The Roster is Closed.

Team, do we want to have another 1 or 2 players join us? If so, we'll open the gates and see who arrives... I personally think 4 would probably be enough but 5 might be good too... (in total; I don't mean another 4 or 5 more )...

As promised, here is a listing of our various starting locations. Let's discuss which one we'd like to go with first.

First Start Location


Second Start Location


Third Start Location


Fourth Start Location


Fifth Start Location


My thoughts

I am tempted with starts 1, 2 or 3. Start 1: We have wheat, clams and sheep in extended radius if we settle as is. Stone is in view, possible for the second city. Handy for those early wonders to get the culture show on the road. The fish I think dont really come into play unless we want to move the settler to the goody hut... The warrior probably shouldn't pop that hut. I was thinking that maybe we could move the settler 1S onto the forested hill, and even though this may delay us a turn, we will block whatever it is that is down further south. However, maybe settling where we are is a better choice... Probably preferred...

Start 2: Wheat, Stone and fresh water within city radius make this a decent start for me. We can also settle on a hill which I think the importance can possibly be easily understated. A few forests but jungle down south

Start 3: Lux's, river tiles and a pig. Only downsides are the desert tiles, although maybe not all that bad with the oasis. The wait is also a negative, technology-wise, until the lux's come online. Not bad.

I'd probably give my vote to start number 1 as I don't think 4 and 5 are that good really. There is probably something I've missed there. What do you folks think? Lurker comments welcome too

-- Sadan

I've not really got any thoughts on the roster - I'm happy enough with just the four of us, or with an extra 1 or 2. So I'm not much use there.

For the starts - I too don't like no. 5. I think 1 & 4 have the advantage of being on the coast, given we're were talking about trying to get established in the New World as well as win via culture On the other hand 3 looks food-rich, and a possible Great Artist farm? And it's got river round three sides of the potential city, which is always nice

I think my favourite is 1 (settling in place would be my preference), with 3 as second choice.

Incidentally, do we have all victory conditions turned on?

pling said:

I've not really got any thoughts on the roster - I'm happy enough with just the four of us, or with an extra 1 or 2. So I'm not much use there.

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It'll be interesting to see what Chriseay says as he is playing almost every open SG at the moment My own opinion: I think leaving it at 4 is probably good enough just the turns will come up quicker but that shouldn't be a problem.

pling said:

For the starts - I too don't like no. 5. I think 1 & 4 have the advantage of being on the coast, given we're were talking about trying to get established in the New World as well as win via culture

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Very good point in my eyes. I think I am even more sold on #1.

pling said:

On the other hand 3 looks food-rich, and a possible Great Artist farm? And it's got river round three sides of the potential city, which is always nice

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We are going to need plenty of surplus food however in the 3 cities we choose to race for legendary status for spamming artists- obviously the capital should be one of them due to the culture of the palace from the beginning.

pling said:

Incidentally, do we have all victory conditions turned on?

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Yep . This will give the AI something to aim for... Like the spaceship. Chriseay wanted the deck stacked and I think it is only fair we give the AI a chance to win too; which means we can have fun trying to stop them.

Stack the deck? I guess I did make it a littler harder with the terra suggestion! I like start one or two the best. My main problem with one (while I still vote for it) is that it will probably become our best food city. And since it's the capital and will have some wonders, it will be hard to focus it on artists as might be helpful for culture. All in all though, this doesn't matter I don't think. It's a very good spot.

Spot two I like because of the stone, but we can have stone pretty quickly in the first start too, so I think it may be moot. We shouldn't need stone for Stonehenge (haha, stoneless stonehenge) but if we go for pyramids, hanging gardens, etc it will be nice.

On the roster, I think a try with 4 is a good idea. If we end up thinking that's not enough, then maybe adding one or two more is good. Let's stick with the way it is for now though.

On second look at that first start, I think we can get those fish if we settle where the hut is. I always play with the grid turned on, so I have trouble deciphering tiles with it off, but four food resources would be amazing. Also, that would definitely put us on the coast, while it looks possible that where the settler sits is not (though it probably is). Thoughts on moving?

lurker's comment: IMO the first start would make an excellent great artist producer. You’ve got three sources of food within your fat cross. I’d suggest settling in place for the resources. Build only wonders that produce artist gpp’s and you’ve got a great artist factory.

#3 would make a great commerce city. Settle in place and turn this spot into a science city. Putting cottages on flood plains is my preferred method IMO.

Edit: Signing in on lurker status.

I'd pick three but move the settler NW to pull the wines after expansion. 2 wines, 3 FP, and pigs for plenty of food.

As was recently pointed out to me, in another thread, establishing a game plan early on is important.

Three cities are key and need all the bells and whistles. IIRC, the confucian academy (or equivalent) gives +50% culture in the city if confucianism (or equivalent) is your state religion. I'm not sure about this and too lazy to look it up. So three academies will be needed. Three science academies would be nice too. So would a plethora of holy cities. and...nevermind.

What's the plan for the city build pattern? tighter than last time?

If ya need a fifth...

this is a fresh game from the rest of the successions going for conquest.
Mabye they're trying to imitate cuban isolationists?
I'll just lurk this one.

p.s. sorry for the rant

AK does have a point with the multiple flood plains in three. I hadn't taken that into account. I think I still like one though.

It's very true you need a plan for culture! It's hard to just fall into it if you aren't going for it the whole game. Many religions (not necessarily founded by us) is a must. You are correct AK, on the cathedral buildings. For each religion we have three temples for, we can build 1 cathedral building (+ 50% ). This means 9 cities with temples of each religion we have is optimal.

AK, I think you have an open invitation if you want to play.

chriseay said:

On second look at that first start, I think we can get those fish if we settle where the hut is. I always play with the grid turned on, so I have trouble deciphering tiles with it off, but four food resources would be amazing. Also, that would definitely put us on the coast, while it looks possible that where the settler sits is not (though it probably is). Thoughts on moving?

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Problem with settling there is that we'd get a lot more desert in the city radius - dunno if the fish really make up for it. And we'd get more sea too, which I don't think'd be as good as the river/plains we'd lose out on. (It is coastal as is, btw)

Admiral Kutzov said:

I'd pick three but move the settler NW to pull the wines after expansion. 2 wines, 3 FP, and pigs for plenty of food.

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That also sounds good - the only reason 1 still edges it out IMO is that 1 is coastal. But I may just be being over-obsessive on that point

pling said:

Problem with settling there is that we'd get a lot more desert in the city radius - dunno if the fish really make up for it. And we'd get more sea too, which I don't think'd be as good as the river/plains we'd lose out on. (It is coastal as is, btw)

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In light of those facts, scratch moving. You're right, the fish don't make up for the desert.

Why do you want coastal so much if we're going cultural? The river gives an auto road as well.

we're

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and it appears I've just committed to this game if you'll have me.

Admiral Kutzov said:

Why do you want coastal so much if we're going cultural? The river gives an auto road as well.

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When we'd been talking about what we wanted to do for the next game (at the end of the SGn00b thread), chriseay had suggested stacking the decks a bit & making it a terra map - I was assuming this was with the implication that we should also try & get in on the New World ... so coastal now saves having to fanny around getting a coastal city later. But I'll freely admit to over-obsessing about coastal cities in general

Admiral Kutzov said:

and it appears I've just committed to this game if you'll have me.

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Cool

Just an opinion, but I'd rather have the first city landlocked so we can get production from all the tiles if we need to. Awful long time til we needs the boats (unless we're Gilligan or Lost)

I'm fine with whatever the team wants as a start. We should discuss the research path.

Admiral Kutzov said:

Why do you want coastal so much if we're going cultural? The river gives an auto road as well.

and it appears I've just committed to this game if you'll have me.

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I tend to have an over abundance of love for coastal cities. It's good to have someone out there trying to push us in the other direction.

Welcome AK!

Admiral Kutzov said:

I'm fine with whatever the team wants as a start. We should discuss the research path.

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Given we're Ghandi & start with Mysticism, are we going to try & get 1 or possibly 2 of the early religions? Then mop up the worker techs starting with whatever we need for the resources when we've picked a starting point?

I think trying to get both of the early religions is a good idea however as has been stated, we don't necessarily need to get the religion to make use of it for our aims (however it would obviously be better if we did). I think the reason why I am going to find this game so exciting is the fact that I don't normally use religions at all, preferring to let the other civ's get the religions (unless I am in a position where I can get a religion-tech for free from a GP). I would then normally use no religion to stay on reasonable terms with most of the other civs and if it came to it, choose a religion later in the game to get in with the 'in' crowd if necessary...

Sorry for my absence. My combo CD/DVD drive has decided to die on me (I think largely due to StarForce but that is another discussion for another time). I have to get a new one this weekend as obviously I cannot play Civ4 without the DVD in the drive. Sucks huh!? If we are thinking about starting this game ASAP, I'll gladly pass the game to the next player to start whilst I am out a CD/DVD drive... I should have another one within 48hrs anyway.

Welcome to the game, AK . I've added you to the roster. The roster is now closed. I don't think we should go above 5 players as we'll be waiting too long between turns.

Talking about the roster, has anyone seen or spoken to Beef in the last couple of days? I might PM him as I haven't noticed him around or checking in.

Ak makes a very good argument for taking map/game 3. Moving that settler NW would make a very good start location. I'm constantly reminding myself that we are going to need a lot of food in the latter game for artist spam to boost our culture. Moving that settler NW obviously gives us the wine but the selling factor for me is the floodplains. Compared to the first save, where we probably would have to move the settler 1SW (pop the hut) and settle there to get the fish and clams with the sheep. However, as pointed out, we then get the desert tiles. Damn. I'm leaning towards AK's plan now. Even though we cannot see over those hills to the W, I'm willing to go with it. Does this make any sense?

pling said:

Given we're Ghandi & start with Mysticism, are we going to try & get 1 or possibly 2 of the early religions? Then mop up the worker techs starting with whatever we need for the resources when we've picked a starting point?

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I reckon we should go for Polytheism. The A.I will usually go for Buddhism straight up (if we have any other civs that start with Mysticism) so we would probably be a sure thing to get Poly. Plus we get the Parthenon to build (Great Artist chances increase in terms of GP).

Methos said:

Signing in on lurker status.

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Great I definitely want some lurkers to keep an eye on me. I need the pointers and tips. The team is usually too polite I also agree with the cottages on the floodplains methodology.

MasterShake, if there is anything you can add, please do. I like participation

Edit: One more thing, I think I'll add a quick list of must-have Wonders to try and build to help us along in this game (no particular order):

Broadway (+50% in city)
Hollywood (as above)
Rock N Roll (as above)
Stonehenge (Free Obelisk in each city)
The Oracle (not really necessary but would be nice for the free tech...)
The Parthenon (more likely to produce a great artist)
The Sistine Chapel (+2 culture per specialist - more likely to product a Great Artist)
Notre Dame (once again, maybe not a must-have but produces more Great Artists)
The Kremlin (as directly above)
The Taj Mahal (as above + free Golden Age)

The chances of us getting all of these on Prince difficulty are probably remote at best but what do you all think? Some of these are definitely attainable.

I'm alive - was in Nottingham on wednesday to see the Mighty Boosh. I like the first start methinks.

Sadan01 said:

Edit: One more thing, I think I'll add a quick list of must-have Wonders to try and build to help us along in this game (no particular order):

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lurker's comment: When I go for a culture victory I stop research at either Liberalism or Mass Media. I usually stop at Liberalism.

What I do when I hit my research stopping point is set my slider to 100% wealth and cash rush any remaining culture producing improvements. Once all the improvements are done I set the slider at 100% culture and manipulate things diplomatically.

Being that this is an SG you may not want to stop at Liberalism, and stop at Mass Media instead. Would probably keep everyone's interest more. I'm just giving suggestions.

Methos said:

Being that this is an SG you may not want to stop at Liberalism, and stop at Mass Media instead. Would probably keep everyone's interest more. I'm just giving suggestions.

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My preferred stopping point is actually somewhere in the middle there, around industrialism (if you need better defense) or biology (more food for more artists). You do have to stop somewhere, it's really a question to decide in game based on circumstances.

I think if we are going to go for Polytheism then we she also go for Monotheism. If we go for Meditation, then we should follow it up with Polytheism. Two quick religions would be a great start for us....I'm tempted to go for three, but since we need 9 cities for the correct amount of temples I fear that would slow our growth too much.

In the end, my vote is start 1 or 3 and poly, masonry, mono - then worker techs as necessary.

I'm agreeable to going for 2 early religions with the caveat that we break for bronze at some point. I'd also like to use the oracle to grab the CS slinger which would involve us getting CoL (religion #3). Keep in mind holy cities generate commerce even they're not our state religion.

RE the wonders, don't forget the spiral thingy