[MODCOM] Sniper Mod - Teaser Pic

Alright guys, I am working on a new mod comp and wanted to give a very early teaser image. Note the "Special Abilities" section.

Looks interesting. I'll stay tuned.

Roger Bacon

oooooooooooo ahhhhhhhhhh goodie!!!!!! I cant wait to see what you end up doing with this!!

Image remove, see thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=169665

The icons are funny (particular the shot groupings), but I'm not sure snipers make sense in civ 4 given it's level of abstraction :/.

Belizan said:

The icons are funny (particular the shot groupings)...

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Thanks, I was trying to go for the hey look how good at shooting I am.

Belizan said:

I'm not sure snipers make sense in civ 4 given it's level of abstraction :/.

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Well if that was the case then do Great Persons make sense in Civ 4 given it's level of abstraction?

This mod sounds pretty sweet. I can't wait!

Woah! This is gonna be good

TheLopez said:

Well if that was the case then do Great Persons make sense in Civ 4 given it's level of abstraction?

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Yes . Although one could take a great deal of exception with how they have been modelled . What effects are you envisioning snipers to have?

Do you mean by modelled meaning the physical .nif model? For effects do you mean what will the sniper do?

Modelled as in the effects they will have in game. I've been thinking about it, and I've managed to come up with a couple of effects you could grant them, but... What did you have in mind, anyway?

So far there are two:
1) Take shot, basically the player presses the "Take Shot" action button and they are allowed to select a unit to try to damage or kill. The XP they get depends on if the hit was successful, how far away the shot was and if they killed the unit in question or not. This fully consumes the unit's move.
2) Harass, basically it is like sentry but if an enemy moves into the snipers range they will automatically attack the enemy with a greatly reduced chance of hitting them.
As far as implementation goes, I am trying to make it as generic as possible so other people can add in their own type of snipers. I will embelish on that later once I am closer to releasing the mod.

Man Im busting to see what you do with all this TheLopez!! Maybe when you have completed this Modcomp you can release all your works in one big mod! I know I would be one of the first inline to download it!

TheLopez said:

So far there are two:
1) Take shot, basically the player presses the "Take Shot" action button and they are allowed to select a unit to try to damage or kill. The XP they get depends on if the hit was successful, how far away the shot was and if they killed the unit in question or not. This fully consumes the unit's move.
2) Harass, basically it is like sentry but if an enemy moves into the snipers range they will automatically attack the enemy with a greatly reduced chance of hitting them.
As far as implementation goes, I am trying to make it as generic as possible so other people can add in their own type of snipers. I will embelish on that later once I am closer to releasing the mod.

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Well, so in the scale of most mods, though, this doesn't make sense. Snipers don't take out entire companies of infantry. They harass. They do spotting. They work with other infantry to do coordinated actions.

What I had thought you might be thinking would be to model the arbitraged effect of a sniper. For instance, if you had a fortified sniper, any unit in his los-1, say, (or same stack if you prefer) might be able to get "Sniper Support", granting him a strength bonus on attacks.

You might also be able to set a sniper to demoralize a unit or attempt to pin a unit down, causing a unit to either take a strength penalty, or lose movement points.

Now, if you were using great generals, you could allow snipers to attempt to take out said GP, as they represent individuals. Also, you could model dueling snipers as saying that if a sniper unit attempts to use one of his active powers (pin down, demoralize, or assassinate SpecialUnit_Person) on a unit that has sniper cover, then a sniper duel occurs first.

Of course, working out the logic of all this for the AI is going to be a headache. But you have that same problem, really, in your version, just fewer options I suppose :/.

I don't just a few thoughts, but the best excuses for modelling snipers that I've come up with so far. I don't really feel it makes sense to have snipers taking out units at range. That just seems... I don't know... silly, I guess.

Belizan said:

Well, so in the scale of most mods, though, this doesn't make sense. Snipers don't take out entire companies of infantry.

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With enough time a sniper could take out an entire company of infantry, but the likelyness of that is very, very small.

Belizan said:

They harass.

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True, that's why I making it an action

Belizan said:

They do spotting. They work with other infantry to do coordinated actions.

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I agree, no arguements here.

Belizan said:

What I had thought you might be thinking would be to model the arbitraged effect of a sniper. For instance, if you had a fortified sniper, any unit in his los-1, say, (or same stack if you prefer) might be able to get "Sniper Support", granting him a strength bonus on attacks.

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I don't know about this. I was envisioning more of a unit that would go ahead of a main force to kill off special units like great generals, etc.

Belizan said:

You might also be able to set a sniper to demoralize a unit or attempt to pin a unit down, causing a unit to either take a strength penalty, or lose movement points.

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Hmmm... thats an interesting idea. Maybe force them to move back a square away from the sniper automatically?

Belizan said:

Now, if you were using great generals, you could allow snipers to attempt to take out said GP, as they represent individuals. Also, you could model dueling snipers as saying that if a sniper unit attempts to use one of his active powers (pin down, demoralize, or assassinate SpecialUnit_Person) on a unit that has sniper cover, then a sniper duel occurs first.

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Ah, you are starting to see the potential for this unit. So yes, a sniper could take out any of the units with one entity. How about doing the same in a city? Taking out specialists, citizens, etc.?

Belizan said:

Of course, working out the logic of all this for the AI is going to be a headache. But you have that same problem, really, in your version, just fewer options I suppose :/.

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Why? I can just reuse the code developed for the harass action.

Belizan said:

I don't just a few thoughts, but the best excuses for modelling snipers that I've come up with so far. I don't really feel it makes sense to have snipers taking out units at range. That just seems... I don't know... silly, I guess.

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It might not make sense to you, but there is demand for a unit who can do this.

This looks intriguing to say the least Lopez. Can't wait to see how it works out.

Nice ideas. Would be nice for other units to have harass too. Like the machingunner (and sentry towers).

Well, that's why I am making the code modular .

My hope is that you will basically be able to take the HarassUtils.py file and its corresponding CvHarassCustomEventManager.py file and apply it to other units/buildings. I might even release the harass functionality as a separate mod comp like I did with the random unit naming mod.

Keeping my eye on this o_O

TheLopez said:

So yes, a sniper could take out any of the units with one entity. How about doing the same in a city? Taking out specialists, citizens, etc.?

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Well, a citizen represents literally 1000s(+) of people, so no. You could allow it to target a super specialist, but that would be pretty seriously unbalanced, especially given the way GP production works. Now you *could* allow a sniper to create temporary unhappiness in the city (like in DC, for instance). but again, the number of people a sniper is going to take out is very small.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll do something interesting with the unit, and people will enjoy it. That's the important thing.