RB16 - The Renny Teamer

[Speaker]

Peter of Russia, in:

RB16 - The Renny Teamer
Map: Inland Sea
Size: Small
Speed: Quick
Sea Level: Low

Now for the fun part. We will team with our good AI pals Victoria and Napoleon against the "Axis of Evil:" Tokugawa, Montezuma, and Genghis Khan. We will show these psychos who is the boss! And we won't stop until each of them are dead.

Scenario: Team with 2 AI (Victoria and Napoleon) vs a team of 3 AI
Starting Age: Renaissance
Difficulty Level: I am thinking Monarch or Emperor for this one, but am open to suggestions

Short roster for this one. It will be a quick game, at most 100 turns I think. Standard 24/48 rules apply.

1. Speaker
2. Bede
3. Yosh-RB
4. Methos



440AD (1): Look at our starting area. Note we start with 2 settlers, 1 worker, 2 lonbgowmen, and 1 explorer.


And our allies.



Look at our city. We start at size 2 with a granary!


We have a bunch of nice civics to choose from.


This is where we are on the technology tree.

[Speaker]

480AD (2): Worker chops his first forest and our next worker is due in 2.


520AD (3): Found St. Petersburg in a nice spot that gets pigs, iron, spices, and marble. It also starts a worker.


560AD (4): Worker finishes in Moscow and we go to work on our first of two settlers.

600AD (5): Two more chops and our first Settler will be complete. We will chop two more forests in the next two turns (for a second settler, and then we will start to grow Moscow.

Contact is made with Tokugawa in the north, so war is automatically declared.


640AD (6): Explorer and Longbows continue to push back the fog.

680AD (7): Religions are handed out on the 7th turn. Since we have researched all the religion techs, all 7 are given out. We are the lucky one who gets two religions!



Taoism is one of the "good" religions because it comes with a free missionary. I send him to St. Petersburg, and prepare to revolt. I will wait a turn because we have another settler ready from Moscow.

720AD (8): I go ahead and revolt to Taoism, as our missionary has reached St. Petersburg.

760AD (9): With Taoism spread to our two cities, I make another civic swap, to Pacifism and Caste System. Moscow has the potential to be an outstanding GP city, and we can do a lot of free research this way.

800AD (10): I make sure Moscow has hired a scientist and set to maximum growth. I also found Novgorod and Rostov this turn.

[Speaker]

840AD (11): I finally find what it is I have been looking for the whole time.


Can you say...."Cossacks?"

880AD (12): Taoism spreads on its own to Rostov--a welcome surprise. This saves us the hammers for a missionary (which we can't even build right now anyways because we are not in Organized Religion), and gives a free border expansion.


Moscow, which grew last turn, is already ready to grow again!

920AD (13): Moscow is ready to grow again!

St. Petersburg trains a worker, and I move to chop another.

960AD (14): Moscow is now very rich in food, so I am able to hire an extra scientist (in addition to our free one from Mercantilism). In fact, even with one citizen unemployed, Moscow will still grow in 1 turn!


Moscow revolts, so I raise the culture slider to 10%. Letting your GP city revolt is a big My exploring Longbow is ready to find a home, which will ease the pain.

1000AD (15): The Rostov governor throws a monkey wrench in my perfectly planned...plan. I had forgotten to micro Rostov when I founded it, and the governor loves to hire extra specialists when there are no developed tiles around. So our first great scientist is born. No matter, that just means we'll only need 1 scientist from Moscow and then we can switch to another type of great person.


1025AD (16): Yawn.

1050AD (17): Work boat completes in Rostov, and we start work on a worker.

[Gogf]

Bah, and here I was thinking this was going to be a multiplayer Pitboss or PBEM game of some sort .

Good luck!

EDIT: Jeez, this reads like a how-to for a MP renaissance teamer. Of course, I'll bet the AI will have an even worse time dealing with Cossacks than your average human .

[Speaker]

1075AD (18): Second GS is born in Moscow.




Moscow swaps over to Great Artist production.


1100AD (19): Yawn.

1125AD (20): This seems a nice point to pass off.

[Speaker]

Questions-

1) What technology will Great Artists give us, and how many will we need to use to get the tech automatically?

2) What is our "ultimate" technology?

3) What should we research next?

4) What will we need to accomplish in the next 10-30 turns?

Renny Teamer

Speaker (played)
Bede (up)
Yosh-RB
Methos

10 turns each please. But let's stratiegerize first.

[Speaker]

Originally Posted by Gogf

Bah, and here I was thinking this was going to be a multiplayer Pitboss or PBEM game of some sort .

Good luck!

EDIT: Jeez, this reads like a how-to for a MP renaissance teamer. Of course, I'll bet the AI will have an even worse time dealing with Cossacks than your average human .

Sorry to disappoint Gogf. Just your regular, run-of-the-mill SG...with a twist.

EDIT- Yeah....my guess is it won't be pretty. I think I will rerun this afterward without using GP for research. At least to give the AI a fighting chance.

But they are the axis of evil. And evil must be punished!

[ChrTh]

lurker's comment:
Bede posted over in CTIV-7 that he's having hardware troubles

[Methos]

Bede will need a temporary skip according to his own statement. So current roster should be:

Roster:
Speaker- Just Played
Bede- Temporary Skip
YoshRB- Up
Methos- On Deck

[Methos]

With the Cossacks as our unique unit I’m thinking it would be best to head for Military Tradition. It would require us to research Nationalism and to get a city near the horse resource southwest of Paris. Rostov will finish its worker next turn so could chop a settler.

I was thinking of placing the city on the grass hill to gain the cows. If we set the citizen as an artist immediately upon settling we can grab both the horses and cows quicker. Here’s an attachment of what I’m thinking.

Attachment 120413

It’s kind of nice having a buffer on both sides between us and the axis of evil. This should allow us to keep a smaller force at home as defense. I’m not used to Inner Sea maps and am curious if the AI’s will attack by sea much. Anyone know? We may have to setup some defenders in our allies’ cities.

How much do we want to expand before focusing on the warfront? There is a large section between us and England that could hold several cities. Here’s an attachment with a few possible city sites.

Attachment 120414

Do we want to expand a little more or should we start focusing on warmongering immediately? I’m thinking that if we go the route of Nationalism/Military Tradition that should give us enough time to get a few more cities planted and get our infrastructure up to start producing Cossacks.

Edit: I was able to locate DaveMcW's article on Technologies and how each great person values a specific tech. I've already shut down the game though so wasn't able to figure out which tech a great artist would research for us.

Edit #2: From looking at his article I'd say Printing Press and than Liberalism.

[Speaker]

I will hold off some comments until Bede and YoshRB can check in with input.

But:

Edit #2: From looking at his article I'd say Printing Press and than Liberalism.

[Methos]

The original question was:

Originally Posted by Speaker

1) What technology will Great Artists give us, and how many will we need to use to get the tech automatically?

According to DaveMcW’s article a great artist has a value rating of 5 for Liberalism and 6 for Printing Press. Whoops, missed the 6 for Nationalism. So then we’re saying that he would value Printing Press and Nationalism equally, with Liberalism following it. So how do you figure which is preferred when the value is equal? By tech cost?

[Gogf]

lurker's comment: I'm not sure how it is calculated, but Great Artists will give you Nationalism.

[Sullla]

Speaker's been playing a lot of Renaissance MP teamers - I'd listen to what the man has to say. I know what he's doing, but I'd rather not give it away. (This is going to be a slaughter, so enjoy it while it lasts!)

[Speaker]

Originally Posted by Gogf

lurker's comment: I'm not sure how it is calculated, but Great Artists will give you Nationalism.

In a 3v3 team game, 3 GA=free Nationalism (with some overflow).

YoshRB and Bede must check in today or I will open their spots. We are waiting for more commentary before we move on.

[Yosh-RB]

See it. I'm at work now, so I'll play tonight when I get home. Sorry I didn't post earlier; I didn't see it yesterday when I left work!

Hmm... looks like we're off to a good start here. I agree with beelining to Cossacks and from there to World Domination (TM)

So I think the strategy for my turns will be:

1) use the GA's to get Nationalism
2) either go for liberalism for the free tech, or go straight to military tradition
3) expand further, founding more cities and getting infrastructure in place - EDIT: hook up horses!
4) prepare the ground for a military buildup after my set of turns

I don't think that we are in much danger of being attacked from the inland sea; AFAIK, the AI does not tend to build ships on those.

EDIT: I didn't think all of the thoughts through before posting. Here are some more:

As Peter, we are Expansive, and we should make use of that trait by expanding out a decent amount more before going to "full war mode"; that way, we will have the economic infrastructure to support our upcoming armies.

Comments?

[Yosh-RB]

Oh, and one more thing - In regard to Methos' city placement screenie with the horses... one option we have is to move the placement due North one tile; thus avoiding the loss of that forest and making better use of that plain; even though the horses aren't immediately in reach of the city, we could use one of our GA's to bomb the place and immediately gain borders over them. I haven't seen the rest of the surrounding area yet, so I don't know if the benefits would outweigh the costs, but it's an option

[Yosh-RB]

Ok, sorry to post 3x in a row, but I looked at the tech tree and here is what I was thinking:

Nationalism by itself is not very helpful to us immediately; it's only a stopping point to mili trad, and to get cossacks we will still need gunpowder. Since Education is on the way to gunpowder and liberalism, one path we could take is this:

liberalism->(free)Nationalism ->economics for the free GM->mili trad -> gunpowder

By taking the economics detour we a) strengthen our econ, b) get a free GP, c) give us a stronger base for when we war

We either save the GM from economics for later, or burn him to help out with nat'l/mili trad/gunpowder (not sure what he would help with)...

The idea being that we have a Golden Age lined up for when we are ready to begin mass production of Cossacks - when we're ready, we switch over to Theo/Vassalage, trigger the GA when we come out of anarchy, and go to town!

Last question - would it be worth it to send a unit towards the axis of evil to start causing trouble? My thinking behind it is that he could keep an eye out on what they're doing, perhaps (carefully) pillage, and if we're lucky, gain enough experience so that we can build West Point sooner rather than later...

[Speaker]

Originally Posted by Methos

With the Cossacks as our unique unit I’m thinking it would be best to head for Military Tradition. It would require us to research Nationalism and to get a city near the horse resource southwest of Paris. Rostov will finish its worker next turn so could chop a settler.

Sound direction for the next 10-20 turns.

I was thinking of placing the city on the grass hill to gain the cows. If we set the citizen as an artist immediately upon settling we can grab both the horses and cows quicker. Here’s an attachment of what I’m thinking.

I like this placement.

It’s kind of nice having a buffer on both sides between us and the axis of evil. This should allow us to keep a smaller force at home as defense.

Yes. We are in the classic "support" position.

I’m not used to Inner Sea maps and am curious if the AI’s will attack by sea much. Anyone know?

I don't think we have to worry, although I would get out a caravel or two for our sentinel net. The AI each have 2-3 cities at this point, and they won't attack by sea until they have enough units at home (if ever).

We may have to setup some defenders in our allies’ cities.

Might not be a bad idea. Then again, probably not necessary as our AI allies will build a lot of troops.

How much do we want to expand before focusing on the warfront? There is a large section between us and England that could hold several cities. Here’s an attachment with a few possible city sites.

After the horses site, we might want one or two more cities. But I probably wouldn't build them from the capital.

Do we want to expand a little more or should we start focusing on warmongering immediately? I’m thinking that if we go the route of Nationalism/Military Tradition that should give us enough time to get a few more cities planted and get our infrastructure up to start producing Cossacks.

This depends on what sort of infrastructure you have in mind?

[Speaker]

Originally Posted by Yosh-RB

See it. I'm at work now, so I'll play tonight when I get home. Sorry I didn't post earlier; I didn't see it yesterday when I left work!

No problem. Nothing like an ultimatum to get some attention.

1) use the GA's to get Nationalism
2) either go for liberalism for the free tech, or go straight to military tradition
3) expand further, founding more cities and getting infrastructure in place - EDIT: hook up horses!
4) prepare the ground for a military buildup after my set of turns

Which is cheaper, MT or Liberalism? How much cheaper? Which will get us MT faster? Is there a risk? How risky is it? How can we tell who will get Liberalism faster if the AI beelines?

As Peter, we are Expansive, and we should make use of that trait by expanding out a decent amount more before going to "full war mode"; that way, we will have the economic infrastructure to support our upcoming armies.

Not a bad idea, but we will want to be ready to build Cossacks the moment we get MT. Exploit your technological advantage!

we could use one of our GA's to bomb the place and immediately gain borders over them.

"Waste" a great artist (~700 beakers of research) to avoid "wasting" one forest? That sounds like a decision to me. Instead, send a worker with the settler and chop the forest before founding. We'll need a worker to connect the horses anyways.