Quick diplomacy tip

If a pushy AI that you'd like to keep good relations with comes to you with a demand, go ahead and give in. Then open up a trade, select that leader's cheapest tech and ask, "Could you spare this for a good friend?" They will usually agree, turning a demand into a trade and boosting your relations with them even more! Not sure if I've seen this mentioned before so I thought I would share.

that doesn't work if they don't have anything you want, which is often the case when you're out front on the tech tree. it always seems like the civs that come begging do so because they're poor.

Frequently, but not always. This works best in the early game when you are determining who you want to war/ally with. As Napoleon, I assaulted Mansa Musa who was next to me right away. When Huayna Capac came demanding tech, I accepted, then demanded one right back. After all was said and done, we both came out ahead, Huayna was friendly toward me, and I avoided getting distracted in another war. I've been in similar situations in the past.

Just to quote what people always say, rubbish! I always try my luck after one of my AI 'friends' (even friendly ones) wants some tech from me and I never get anything back. That's assuming they are not already unwilling to trade because they fear you're too advanced. They usually won't even help me fight a common enemy if I get attacked a few turns later.

Some AIs might give you if you're very friendly, but most won't. What difficulty are you playing at?

I play on Monarch. And no, they're not already friendly. That's the whole point. If you can pull a deal like this off you end up friendly. Of course there's a risk that they won't recipocrate. You have to weigh your options. I just wanted to let people know about this for those times where they don't want to reject a demand, and would like to get something out of it. I imagine it would go far toward a diplomatic victory.

"Rubbish"? What, you think I just made this up and came to the board to post it? Forget about it then. Don't try it. I, however, will continue to do it.

You can always try to ask for gold/tech even if they did not request any thing from you. There does not seems to be any penalty for asking help (not demand though (<Cautious)).

Anyway, rejecting a help request penalty will disappear after a while (Demand reject (<Cautious) will last much longer than help reject (>Pleased)).

I do often request for help when an AI hits pleased. Though, I mostly get gold only since I am usually ahead in score. Highest aid given was ~ 150 gold. I suppose they may be more willing to give help if your score is lower. This last part, I am not sure though since I have not figure how they decide if they want to give help.

i was given a thec by Cyrus one time, just out of the blue....

I just don't see any point in including tech demands in the game if the player is suppose to ALWAYS reject the demand.

Thanks InFlux5 - I was thinking that I need to play this way a bit more. When I reject a demand, they get more pissed, so if I accept a demand they get less pissed. If you want + relations, give in to demands. If it doesn't get you an immediate tech, it DOES at least give you +.

Point taken Qitai. I guess I haven't been paying much attention to the difference between a request and a demand.

I don't know all the details governing diplomatic relations in the game; and frankly, I don't want to. I prefer there to be some mystery to the game. Hours of number-crunching isn't fun to me.

Anyway, I'll just reiterate a couple points. I've been doing this in the very early game, when I'm trying to form strategic alliances. I want to go to war with one of my close neighbors, and to stave off an attack from anyone else during that time. I am in the middle or at the bottom of the score list, as always in the beginning of a Monarch game. The civ that comes asking/demanding is cautious, at best. I give in, then ask for something back, and I end up friendly. The last time I pulled this off it was the Inca I was buttering up, not exactly a friendly civ.

Now, if you are the tech leader, or the high score, obviously this won't work. But coming here and saying "I'm always ahead in tech" says nothing about the strategy. It's specifically for when you aren't ahead, and want to make friends.

Well, if you have not traded with a particular AI before, then agreeing to help not only gets you that permanent +1 for giving aid but also gives you up to +4 for "our trade relationship is fair" (This quote is misleading, since you only get it when you give more than take in trading). Together, you get up to +5 relationship which easily puts you up another notch in relationship (Please when greater than +3, Friendly when greater than +10 plus some internal value ranging from -1 to +2 depending on civ).

So, in short yes, agreeing to help does improve relationship a lot and thus allow you to go on to make a help request which "could" net you something that may be value close to what you have given. And even if it doesn't, it does open up some options previously unavailable to you (E.g. declare war on XYZ).

For me, my consideration is usual this - If I am not already on good terms with the A.I. and it is not critical to hold the tech asked, just give it. The improved relationship more than makes it worthwhile. If I am already on good terms with the A.I., then I "may" reject since the -1 penalty would not hurt me much either. More often than not, I would accept though. In fact, sometimes, I am just begging for them to ask help from me as I really want to make friends with them (only to ask them to go to war with another AI for me).

Sorry. I didn't mean to say you were posting rubbish. It's just my vehemence towards the fact that I don't experience this. For some reason (maybe it's Emperor and, by extension, above) the AIs are a lot stingier in my games lately. Can't remember how it was on Monarch.

Yes, they could be pleased or friendly, but some AIs just refuse to give you anything. I think late game techs are extra hard to get because they are so expensive. So if you are talking about early game the chances of it happening are a lot higher. I remember certain AIs were willing to give me higher-end mid-game techs, like the American leaders and Hathesput. Don't hope Kublai or Saladin will. I hate Saladin. He's so damn egotistical for a non-agressive civ. I think Isabella is in fact nicer.

I'm going for fastest spaceship win in the HOF on Noble, and I have to say, this is a great tactic. So far, they have never failed to give me either:

A) All their gold (up to 280 so far), or
B) Whatever tech I want

In the space race, I give in to every demand except for "stop trading with the <civ>", or "help us wipe out the <civ>". I was already doing this, but not asking for anything in return. This makes a big difference and since I'm often ahead in tech and all they have to trade with is gold, I'm able keep research at 100% a lot more.

After I play several more games I'm going to write a space race victory guide (can't believe there's not one already!). I will most definitely be including this tactic in the guide.

Interesting.
I've never dared ask a tech from another civ since I've experienced the "Arrogant Demand" penalty (once bitten, twice shy ) but I assume proper timing can indeed make a world of difference there.
I'll try it out in my next couple of games, thanks for the tip!

JoeBlade said:

Interesting.
I've never dared ask a tech from another civ since I've experienced the "Arrogant Demand" penalty (once bitten, twice shy ) but I assume proper timing can indeed make a world of difference there.
I'll try it out in my next couple of games, thanks for the tip!

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It only counts as a demand if the text is something along the lines of "We demand this from you in tribute".

If the text says something more like "Could you spare this for a good friend?," it is a *request*.

Generally if you have pleased or friendly relations it is a request, otherwise it's a demand.

Sometimes you will have cautious relations, and giving in to the request will raise it to pleased, which allows you to ask your favor.

Ahh, I wasn't aware of this distinction between demands and requests; I assumed it to be more or less random. I must admit I hadn't paid particular attention to the text difference either.
Good to know, thanks for clarifying that.

i was given a thec by Cyrus one time, just out of the blue....

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Surprised me too. The first time I attempted a cultural victory I was behind in tech (as you often are when going for that victory condition), in fact I was very far behind. But I did have a couple of buddies, and Asoka donated me some big techs (including some military ones) over about 20 turns - cheers mate.

And I won