McCIV-01 Prince McShuffle

Edit: Game Started

No SG's are open right now that interest me so I might as well start one.

I've only been playing Civ IV for a short time and I'll be making the jump to Prince in my single player games when I finish my current game. Because I'm a big fan of random starts, this game is Price level, everything random.

All skill levels are welcome. I still have a LOT to learn about Civ IV. I'm looking to pick up some pointers from this game so hopefully a strong player will join as a training opportunity. Looking for a roster of 5 players.

CIV Version: 1.61
Difficulty: Prince
Speed: Epic
Landmass: Shuffle
World Size: Large
Climate: Random
Sea Level: Random
Leader: Random
All Victory Conditions on ... Any means of Victory acceptable.

Playing 1st start rolled...



And we get Catherine.
I was tempted to re-roll since Catherine is so popular. But it's really against my nature so we'll stick with her.

We'll follow the GOTM rules on exploits.
24 hours to post a "Got it" and 48 hours to play. RL gets in the way for everybody so let the team know if you need a skip or a swap.
Looking for a volunteer to start us off & will then set the roster by time zone. I'm GMT-4.

To be decided: # turns per turnset and anything else I left out.

The roster:

armstrong
McLMan
Paulsy
Thrar
Woobi
Xtream Rockstar

Will post the starting save after the roster is set.

Ill join im usually a noble but i play on prince and monarch alot

Welcome aboard Xtream Rockstar! Glad to have you.

Howdy! I've been lurking here a while and looking to join a SG, and the roster doesn't look full yet... I'm generally a Prince-Monarch player (Prince is often too easy with a good start, Monarch is a bit too rough to be enjoyable for a relaxing game.)

The start looks interesting... so many plains.

I'd like to join. Lately I've won a couple of times on Emperor, I hope that's ok.
We'd just be playing normally, no variants, right?
The last time I played in an SG was when I was relatively new to Civ4, and I found that with the extra amount of thought that usually goes into a 10-turn set, plus the discussion with the others, you'll do a lot better than you expect.

That start...if I could change one thing, I'd take away the lake and make the river run into the sea, then settle where now the lake is. As it is, I'd settle in place and leave the corn for a second city, I think.
Russia starts with hunting and mining, is that right? So first techs to research probably would be fishing and animal husbandry; maybe husbandry and worker first, sheep are worth more than clam without lighthouse. Then go mine the hills while researching fishing.

Welcome armstrong and Thrar.

No variants. Playing it straight.

I thought it was an interesting start too. No way to get all 3 bonuses in the fat cross. I agree with settling in place. I'd build a warrior 1st. Then start a barracks until the city got to size 2, then put the rax on hold and build the 1st worker. Early research is always a problem for me. I would either try for an early religion since we start with mining and can go for BW after getting it to chop the 1st settler. Although going for fishing then animal husbandry makes sense. Seeing where horses are might influence 2nd city placement decisions.

Hi, I've been lurking for quite a while round here and would like to join in. I'm a usually a monarch player, dont always win put but up a fight!

McLMan said:

Welcome armstrong and Thrar.

Click to expand...

And hello everyone!

McLMan said:

I thought it was an interesting start too. No way to get all 3 bonuses in the fat cross. I agree with settling in place. I'd build a warrior 1st. Then start a barracks until the city got to size 2, then put the rax on hold and build the 1st worker. Early research is always a problem for me. I would either try for an early religion since we start with mining and can go for BW after getting it to chop the 1st settler. Although going for fishing then animal husbandry makes sense. Seeing where horses are might influence 2nd city placement decisions.

Click to expand...

Personally, I love the Fishing->Animal Husbandry start - we need too many techs to get our first cities off the ground (Animal Husbandry, Fishing, Agriculture) to chase Polytheism. I think our number one priority is getting those juicy 4 food/3 commerce clams hooked up. If we research Fishing -> Animal Husbandry we'll pop a worker out early, but he can go mine the grass hill in the south while we figure out how to handle the animals. Our city can start on a boat. Then, we can go shear the sheep and let our city grow to size three while finishing the work boat and a couple of warriors. After that, it's settling time!

With the reduced benefit of chopping, I'm not sure we need early bronze, especially since we might be able to find horses (hopefully!) sooner rather than later because of our sheep. Plus, we save the forests for something juicy like the Great Lighthouse.

It looks like you all need another, I'd be glad to join...

I'd rather start working the sheep instead of the clam. Sheep on plains are 4/1/1, while clam is 4/0/3. That extra production will be handy for the work boat later, and the worker isn't consumed making the pasture, as the boat would be on the clam.
Our capital starts out with 8 commerce (palace), so the difference between 1 more or 3 more isn't that big imo...whereas the difference between 1 and 2 hammers total is pretty big.
Then, after building the pasture, the worker could go mine that grassland/hill (down in the fog on the river) for an extra 1/3/1, while building the work boat.

I think if we build a worker first, we'll easily be able to research one tech before he's completed, then we'll need a warrior at some point, and until that guy is done, we'll certainly have fishing to start on a work boat, plus big production (at least 5; city, sheep, hill) to get it out fast.
If we build the work boat earlier, we either sacrifice growth to work the hill, or it'll take forever to build it with 2 hammers.

I say we settle on the spot, and research AH...

Corn can be for second city...

Thrar said:

I'd rather start working the sheep instead of the clam

[snip...]

I think if we build a worker first, we'll easily be able to research one tech before he's completed, then we'll need a warrior at some point, and until that guy is done, we'll certainly have fishing to start on a work boat, plus big production (at least 5; city, sheep, hill) to get it out fast.
If we build the work boat earlier, we either sacrifice growth to work the hill, or it'll take forever to build it with 2 hammers.

Click to expand...

Yep, that's definitely a better plan. Also, if we get lucky and have some horses in our capital, we'll want to corral those before we mine the hill, too.

So, another vote for settle on the spot and Animal Husbandry here.

Well the roster is full. We'll go with 6 with the additon of Paulsy and Woobi.

Many thanks to armstrong and Thrar for the great discussion on starting strategy. Looks like we have a plan.

Nobody posted time zones so we'll go alphabetical.

The roster:
armstrong UP
McLMan ON DECK
Paulsy
Thrar
Woobi
Xtreme Rockstar

Good luck armstrong!

BTW. It's up for discussion, but I think armstrong should start with 30 turns, then we'd finish the 1st round by playing 20 each. 10 turns each set from the 2nd round on.

*****The Save*****

what victory will we go for?

It's silly to decide that ahead of time...

McLMan said:

Good luck armstrong!

BTW. It's up for discussion, but I think armstrong should start with 30 turns, then we'd finish the 1st round by playing 20 each. 10 turns each set from the 2nd round on.

Click to expand...

Okay, I've "got it" and will play 30 turns tomorrow afternoon or evening. For the record, I'm CST in the United States (GM -6 or -7 I think?).

McLMan said:

I think armstrong should start with 30 turns, then we'd finish the 1st round by playing 20 each. 10 turns each set from the 2nd round on.

Click to expand...

sounds good. I'm in Germany, CET, currently GMT+2 (daylight savings time).

Edit: Thanks for the help with the images, McLMan

Oh well, off we go!

The plan is to settle in place, research animal husbandry and then fishing, and explore this Large and frightening world.

Turn 1 - 4000 BC
First off, I name the scout Vladimir. I like to have names for the units, especially early ones, just so I can keep track of them better. Once the war machine gets going, only the highly promoted or therwise special ones get names. Vlad heads west to the corn, and sees some desert...

Moscow is founded, and the sheep jump for joy:



Moscow begins working on a worker... 23 turns! Ah, for some reason I missed this was an epic speed game. Oh well, I actually like epic and normal game speeds about equally. It looks like they fixed the price of unit in epic from 25% more costly to 50% more costly in the last patch - I must have missed that in the patch notes.

We begin researching Animal Husbandry.

Turn 2 - 3970 BC
Vlad explores west, taking a quick look to see how big that desert is.

It's big...

Turn 3 - 3940 BC
Vlad finds a tribal village in the desert and gets 71 gold. We find some more sheep near at the edge of the good lands and the desert.



Turn 4 - 3910 BC
Vlad heads south east to explore around Moscow. He finds some incense.

Turn 5 - 3880 BC
Moscow's Borders expand, grabbing a hut for 35 gold.

Turn 6 - 3850 BC
Vlad explores...

Turn 7 - 3820 BC
...

Turn 8 - 3790 BC
Vlad finds some pigs south of Moscow along the coast. This animal husbandry might turn out to be very useful. In general, the land south/southwest of Moscow is decent, and getting greener - we must be in the northern part of the Northern Hemisphere.

Turn 9 - 3760 BC
Vlad convinces a young man from a tribal village to join the russian empire and become a Scout! He takes on the name Yuri. There is a jungle to our south, which Yuri explores while Vlad moves west.

Turn 10 - 3730 BC
More exploration...

Turn 11 - 3700 BC

And helllloooo!



It's Qin. Here's where we met his warrior in relation to our capital:



That map gives a nice overview of the lands near Moscow as well... not very promising.

Meanwhile, Yuri finds himself face to face with a panther. Fortunately, he's defending in a jungle.

IBT

It really annoys me that you can't see the combat strength of a unit during battles anymore...



Nice work, Yuri! We have our nation's first hero.

Turn 12 - 3670 BC
Vlad continues exploring west, while Yuri climbs up a tree on a jungle
hill to heal. Qin curiously moves his warrior NW? I thought he was coming from the W?

Turn 13 - 3640 BC
Just explorin'

Turn 14 - 3610 BC
The desert to the west is unfortunately a LARGE desert. Vladimir names it the "Vladimir Desert."



Turn 15 - 3580 BC
Vlad finds some more desert sheep.

Turn 16 - 3550 BC
...

Turn 17 - 3520 BC
Vlad moves onto a hill to avoid a fight with a lion, and ends up next to a second one!

IBT - Vlad wins! And...



Turn 18 - 3490 BC
..as you can also see, Hinduism is founded in a distant land - before Buddhism? Now that's rare on a large map.

That reminds me, I go check the Wonders screen to see who we're up against and learn some shocking news:



You can't see the name of the "top 5 cities" until you have met the Civilization. It certainly makes a lot more sense than the previous method.

Turn 19 - 3460 BC
Both scouts are licking their wounds...

Turn 20 - 3430 BC
Yuri is healed and continues to explore the southern jungle (which he names, jealously, the "Yuri Jungle.")

Turn 21 - 3400 BC
We learn Animal Husbandry. Soon, winters will become much more tolerable with wool socks and caps, and our people will breed like rabbits.

We begin researching Fishing next. It will complete on my last turn (unless the few extra commerce from the sheep bump it up one.)

And some great news:



Alright! As long as Moscow holds, our Cossacks will never want for horses. Plus, it's a third strong tile to work. Our greatest year yet!

Turn 22 - 3370 BC
Yuri does some dancing to make sure he's not caught in the open against a lion.

Turn 23 - 3340 BC
Someone in Moscow drops a pin...

Turn 24 - 3310 BC
Another exciting year. Moscow completes our first Worker. I name him *waits for the groans* Papa Serf, and he is immediately instructed to build a pasture for our sheep.

Moscow begins work on a Warrior.

Buddhism is FIADL. It's so odd Polytheism went first...

Yuri finds some Marble to the south west of Moscow, but it's a bit far away. It might be useful when it comes time to build the Great Library, though.

Vladimir discovers Beijing, and begins to take a peek around his lands to see what resources Qin might have.

Here's Beijing in relation to Moscow:

Turn 25 - 3280 BC through Turn 27 - 3220 BC
Vlad and Yuri explore, the pasture's being built... nothing interesting, except for some silk just outside of Qin's borders.

Turn 28 - 3190 BC

Well, hellllooooo there!



It's an all-financial continent so far, as we meet Huayna Capac just south of Beijing. Somewhat surprisingly, Huayna did not found Hinduism or Buddhism (and he had plenty of time to due so.)

Turn 29 - 3160 BC
Yuri sees a bear and panics. Meanwhile, our sheep are finally brought under control.

Turn 30 - 3130 BC
Papa Serf moves into the forest between the sheep and horses to corral the other beasts. Meanwhile, we finish Fishing. I start on Bronzeworking, though I kind of just picked it randomly, as the choice is up to the next person.

Comments

Well, first, here's an overview of our resources and our land:

Food



Luxuries



General



There's some good news and bad news about the map.

First Bad News: Ugh, look at that desert! Because of that, and the fact we're on a peninsula, we're really blocked out of expansion everywhere but south.

Second Bad News: We're really low on hills for production. We have a few grassland hills just outside of our cultural boundaries, but it's pretty slim pickings.

Third Bad News: We've only found two happiness resources, and not only are both calendar resources, but the silk is right up against Beijing, and we won't be able to get it without a fight.

First Good News: The food situation isn't dire, at least. We have a Pigs+Clams site to the south, Sheep near the desert in the west, and Corn to the north (any maybe some fish resources, there's 3 ocean tiles north of the corn that our warrior should probably scout.)

Second Good News: Animal Husbandry is paying off in spades. Not only does it let us work two strong tiles in Moscow, we also have two near city sites with animals, AND it will give us Chariots when we get the Wheel for barbarian defense.

As for a general strategy, I'm a bit at a loss. We need to find some way to fix the happiness problem, and some way to fix the "bad land" problem. As for happiness, Hereditary Rule and (maybe) cheap Theatres/Coliseums could do the job until we can find/trade for more resources. To solve our bad land troubles, we just need to expand south and west towards the middle of the continent.

Since we're going mostly south anyway, it might be a decent idea to just expand southwards along the coast, using the Great Lighthouse + our financial 2F3C coast tiles to keep our economy growing. An early attack on China with horsebowmen is a possibility as well - they're not that far, especially if we built a road through the desert.

Despite having two scouts, and exploring a pretty big chunk of land, we only found three huts. Given that you almost always start with two close to the city (and we did), it's kind of odd there was only one more around us at all.

McLMan, you've got the call on the next technology - there are no beakers invested in Bronzeworking yet. The Wheel gives us chariots and leads into Pottery, though with financial+fishing early cottages aren't so crucial, and we already have Writing opened up. We'll need to get Bronzeworking at some point, and revealing copper might help us pick a better spot for our first production city. Agriculture will be useful when we build a city to take advantage of the corn.

Over to you, McLMan.