Should we keep fighting the Mongolians?

Here is the situation:

We have adequate troops to end the Mongolian Empire. Our economy is not as good as it should be. Our current SoW wants to to have a cease fire then wait the 10 turns and attack the Mongolians. It should be noted that Genghis does not want to talk to us at this moment.

So as the SoS( appointed not confirmed yet) here are the questions I see that need to be answered.

1. IS it better to finish the Mongolians now or wait?
2. Do we really want to commit genocide? Much like the slavery issue from term 1 this is certain to get heated.

If there is any more information that you need let me know and I will try to find that information for you.

In My Opinion( not as SoS but as a citizen)...we should take the other city now (not the capital) and leave Genghis to rot away. I do not favor committing genocide in a war we started. If they would have attacked us then its justified. We let the 2 border cities to his capital build culture to protect their fat cross and we also keep any Mongolian settler from crossing our lands.

i think if were going to bother attacking the other city we may as well go for the jugular, its a game no need to worry about genocide.

I'm not sure why you call it genocide? We are simply merging the two civilizations and peoples under our more evolved guidance.

The capitol would be the more interesting city to capture due to its population, buildings and improvements.

I do not think we will get Math out of the mongols anymore.

Well the same can be said for slavery about the game part...you do remember that great debate.

robboo said:

Well the same can be said for slavery about the game part...you do remember that great debate.

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I think lots of new people (including me) werent around for that one. I think we should get peace ASAP and build/stablize our economy.

I'm kind of confused here. Are we looking to play the game to win, or are we looking to play the game to have fun? You can translate that into, are we here to make game winning decisions, or are we basing our decisions on our personal ethics and morals to have fun. I myself perfer the later, but I'm not sure what to decide on this.

Ice: we're trying to do both at the same time. And neither.

I think we need to end this war and repair our economy. Our National Debt is growing to huge amounts. All rich people should have all of their money taken away. I know they worked hard and made smart decisions to earn that money, but we should take it away to give to all the stupid and lazy people.

Genocide? Is this a joke or something? Citizens... why did we started this war? To conquer! To spread our culture! To get more living space! And now we are wondering is this a genocide?. I think that it is a little to late for that kind of thinking.

About the war...
I want to finish mongols as fast as it's possible to, but peace treaty will give us an opportunity to get a free tech! This is the first reason why I want this peace treaty.
Second reason is that now we have only 3 axes and 1 sword which are ready to fight and near the front line. War chariots and spears aren't very effestive in capturing cities. So we just don't have the force needed to take the remaining cities now. Bringing other forces (which are on the other side of the jungle - axes near Ning-hasi) or healing troops near the front line will take some time. We need about 5-10 turns for regeneration and troops regrouping before we can strike those two left cities. So why not use that time to get math as a ransom ?

robboo said:

In My Opinion( not as SoS but as a citizen)...we should take the other city now (not the capital) and leave Genghis to rot away.

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As long as I am the SoW I see no chance fore that kind of solution. It's just unacceptable.

GeorgeOP said:

I think we need to end this war and repair our economy.

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Best way to do that is conquest... Why? There are three main reasons:
1) We have to many troops, so they must earn for their upkeep. They must fight and die for their country.
2) Money from pillaging those two remaining cities ( biggest and richest among mongol cities ) will feed our budget for some time. And that time we can use to heal our economy.
3) If we left mongols as a free civilization, their conquered cities will jern and that might be a problem.

They have two cities left... only two... what's the point in not capturing them?
After ending the war, we should build courthauses, and then The Forbiden Palace in one of the mongol cities to show them that they are a part of our great society. And ofcourse to heal our economy .

Rihiter said:

As long as I am the SoW I see no chance fore that kind of solution. It's just unacceptable.

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Obviously you did not follow my troubles last term, EVERYTHING must get approved. You are really a figure head...dont take it personally, they did it to me too. The citizens can overrule you at every step.

Of course..my troubles might have been cause by an official having something personal against me. I guess we will find out this term if you ever go to war.

//see you next term for an election...

Rihiter said:

1) We have to many troops, so they must earn for their upkeep. They must fight and die for their country.
2) Money from pillaging those two remaining cities ( biggest and richest among mongol cities ) will feed our budget for some time. And that time we can use to heal our economy.
3) If we left mongols as a free civilization, their conquered cities will jern and that might be a problem.

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A note about number 2...go back and look at the save. We pillaged their capital of everything. All the second city has is a bunch of low yeilding farms. You will not pay for this war by pillaging..unless you let the capital grow and rebuild for a whole lot of turns.

If we plan on capturing those cities, is it wise to pillage them? Don't we want to capture them in tact to help them grow after we control them. You talk of building great buildings for them to show off our great culture, but if you destroy their fields and starve the woman and children before you arive no building will make them like you.

They must fight and die for their country.

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Most of our troops did not join the army to fight in a war. And now you admit that you plan on them dying. What kind of general are you? Bring home our troops now. I have talked to many of our troops and they are injured and yearn to come home. End this war.

I think the right course of action is to have the Secretary of State contact the Mongols and see what they will actually give us in tribute, for letting them live. I'd recommend sending an ambassador though, the Khan can be brutal if he's in a bad mood.

Lets see what we can get in tribute, then go back and take the final 2 cities when the peace deal expires and we're ready to move again.

Right now we cant get anything..they refuse to talk. Remember if you hurt the AI to bad it will not give in to your demands because it has nothing to lose.

robboo said:

1. IS it better to finish the Mongolians now or wait?

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IMO its better to wait and fix the economy first. The Khan is a toothless tyrant who will happily/grudgingly accept a peace deal once he cools off a bit.

robboo said:

2. Do we really want to commit genocide? Much like the slavery issue from term 1 this is certain to get heated.

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Its not genocide, we're merely assimilating their people into our own greater empire. We bring better governance and culture to the mongol people whilst still allowing them to bring the best of their Mongol culture with them (namely Mathematics )

get Math, that's very important, the rest doesn't matter

GeorgeOP said:

Most of our troops did not join the army to fight in a war. And now you admit that you plan on them dying. What kind of general are you? Bring home our troops now. I have talked to many of our troops and they are injured and yearn to come home. End this war.

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Seems that you have spoken only to those who are injured and war is over for them. They will recive many thanks and goods for their great sacrafice.
Since I am The Secretary of War I have visited the front line many times and I have spoken to those of our troops who are fighting the Mongols every day. And belive me, they don't want to go home yet. They have seen mongol cruelty, they have seen women being raped and children being teared into pieces. And they are convinced to stop that once and for all. Ghingis Khan and his troops are wilde animals - bloody beasts, and they must be stoped. I honore our noble troops, because they can see this and they want to fight for the peace and humanity.

What kind of general am I? That kind who sees something more then single lives, who sees nations and ideas. And my army see it with me.

p.s. I know that I have Khan as an avatar, but this is only an avatar :].

If we want to extort maths but they will not yet even talk to us, what could we do until they will talk?

1. Withdraw and fight defensively
2. Don't attack cities but pillage and kill any troops that emerge
3. Continue the conquest taking further cities.

1. Is effectively sit and wait for them to talk. We will have to maintain enough military for defence but we will also be able to start developing our cities rather than just turning out troops. Improving cities on the front will need us to carefully protect our workers or we will lose them and we risk having improvements pillaged.

2. Continues to weaken the Mongols, but I'm not sure what it will do for us other than perhaps persuade them to talk. We'll still be at war and pretty much still in the position of option 1.

3. At the moment we need another 5 or so turns to re-group and heal before we can attack another city we would need to use options 1/2 until then. If by then they still will not talk and give us maths then we have the troops, let's use them. We push the Mongols too far and they refuse our demands - how far can we pusth them before they refuse anything? have we already pushed too far? If they won't talk or give us Maths lets not just sit and wait, lets continue the offensive.