Design: Features and Terrain

%+Ancient Forest (skin and model by Chalid) (Woodelf)- Only grow into fellowship of leaves state religion civilizations. Have a chance of spawning Treants when enemy units enter them.

Maelstrom (Corlindale)- This is a 3x3 tile sea feature. The map script will force exactly 1 on every map with water on it. Then have a chance of destroying ships that go through it (and when we get into "Fire" have it send the ships to hell instead).

+New Forest

What if that water div 2 spell gave immunity from the maelstrom to a unit?

loki1232 said:

What if that water div 2 spell gave immunity from the maelstrom to a unit?

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I like Corlindales idea to make krakens immune to it so the overlords can use the maelstorm to their advantage, but I wouldnt want to make a spell to make ships immune to it (besides that would be an awfully specific spell).

Possible terrain features:

Wastelands - Barren and grey terrain. Yields 0 food, hammers and commerce(perhaps some hammers for AV civs). Plains will have a (small) chance to turn into wastelands in AV empires. Living units standing in wastelands will get health degeneration, but undeads and demons will get defense bonuses. Wastelands might be a terrain type more suited for Hell, though.

Caverns - Can be found rarely in Peaks(which can be traversed with caverns in them) and Hills. Units standing in a cavern square are invisible, and gets defense bonuses if someone tries to attack them(ie: tries to enter the cavern square). Barbarians will often be lurking in unexplored caverns.

I have a question about the Fellowship of Leaves economy, more particularly the lumbermill and ancient forests.

Unless I've overseen something a forest+lumbermill provides 3 hammers while an ancient forest (which can't have a lumbermill) provides one food and one hammer. Personally in general I consider three hammers more attractive than one food and one hammer, and thus when playing a civ with the Fellowship I'd try to build as much lumbermills as possible, and only keep enough ancient forests to let the city reach size 20. So I'm wondering, is it intended that IMO ancient forests aren't very attractive economically?

If not, may I suggest removing the +1 hammer for lumbermills that Hidden Paths give? That way ancient forest (+1 food, +1 hammer) would IMO in general become more attractive than forest+lumbermill (only +2 hammers), and the lumbermill would mostly be useful for non-Fellowships only. Using lumbermills doesn't feel very protective towards forests anyway.

If the current situation is intended though, and Fellowship civs are supposed to use lumbermills a lot, may I suggest moving the tech that enables it to something else more nature-related, eg Survival? Currently it's Iron Working, which more or less is on what feels like a Dwarven tech b-line to me. When I played as the Wood Elves in FfH1, it didn't feel right to me that in order to play the Elves well I had to emphasize a Dwarven tech b-line for a long period.

FWIW, that's a Maelstrom rather than a "Maelstorm".

I found the same thing with the lumbermills as maniac - perhaps a Leaves wonder giving +1 hammer per ancient forest?

I would prefer that ancient forests instead give +2 food and +1 hammers.

I agree with Loki.

You need the Ancient Forests for health reasons, but since they only provide 1 food/1 hammer, it's better in the long run to cut them down, use FoL Priests to cast Bloom for new forests, and then build lumbermills.

Maybe we add some improvements that can only be built in ancient forests later on?
Something like a very slow evolving cottage that give +1 gold and after 50 turns +1 gold an +1 hammer and maybe after another 100 turns + 2 gold and +1 hammer ? Something related to the fabuloes Animals that live in these forests

Considering that you already can build cottages in Ancient forest squares, and after while, with the right civics and techs, cottages become pretty hard core, I don't see why we need a new type of improvement for Ancient forests. Heck, I thought the whole point of ancient forests was that you could build stuff on them! Huge cities allow for loads of specialists, which means plenty of hammer opp's.

I think Ancient Forests should be left alone. Clearing one should potentially spring a barbarian Treant.

woodelf said:

I think Ancient Forests should be left alone. Clearing one should potentially spring a barbarian Treant.

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That would be very nice. Very narnia.

Perhaps the happiness bonus should only apply to ancient forests?

I think Ancient Forests are good enough. As Wilboman mentioned, improvements can be built in them. So the discussion is not really whether 3 hammers or 1 hammer and 1 food is better, but rather whether 3 hammers or 1 food, 2 hammers and 4 commerce(cottaged ancient forest with Arcane Lore) is better. With the additional defensive capabilities of Treants, I'd most definetely choose the Ancient Forest.

Corlindale said:

I think Ancient Forests are good enough. As Wilboman mentioned, improvements can be built in them. So the discussion is not really whether 3 hammers or 1 hammer and 1 food is better, but rather whether 3 hammers or 1 food, 2 hammers and 4 commerce(cottaged ancient forest with Arcane Lore) is better. With the additional defensive capabilities of Treants, I'd most definetely choose the Ancient Forest.

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Can everyone built improvements in them or just the elven civ... have not played with fellowship in this version so i don't know .

I didn't notice being able to build in them with a non-Elven civ the other day, but it might just be that I was assuming they'd be cleared. If you can build in them then there's no issue.

Only Elven Workers can build in forest, I think. I guess it can be a problem if you are Leaves, but not elven, hadn't really thought of that. I almost always play elves when I use Leaves.

As i thought. This is why i would propose a unique improvement for ancient forests for the other races (like above).

We might want to block cottages from growing into towns when built inside a forest/ancient forest. What do you think.

Oh and can we built farms in forests? Might be a bit strong two with +2 food from farm and +1 food from ancientforest. I"d like to reduce this to +1 food and no upgrades for farms in forests. Maybe we add a complete new set of imfrovements for the forets?
Maybe:
Fruit tree forest +1 Food
Treetop cottage/Hamlet/Village +1, +2, +3 Commerce (+1 Hammer with Arcane Lore)
Cultivated Forest +1 Hammer

And for the Non Elven an kind of universal improvement buildable in Ancient forests:
Enchanted Forest or something with +1 C/+1C+1H/+2C+1H

As of .11a if you put a lumbermill in a forest, then that forest becomes an ancient forest the lumbermill is not destroyed and you still get benefit from it. Have not tested yet for .11b.

@ Chalid