German Cannibal guilty of murder - your thoughts?

warpus · May 9, 2006

I'm sure most of you have heard at some point about this. Here are some excerpts (warning: some of this is nasty)

bbc said:
Armin Meiwes, 44, was sentenced to eight-and-a-half years in prison in 2004 after being found guilty of the manslaughter of Bernd Juergen Brandes.

Known as the "Rotenburg cannibal", Meiwes placed an advert on the internet before meeting his victim, 43-year-old computer engineer Bernd Juergen Brandes.

The pair met at Meiwes's home in Rotenburg in March 2001, where they had sex before Meiwes cut off Brandes's penis, which the men then cooked and attempted to eat.

Meiwes later stabbed and killed Brandes, before cutting him to pieces and freezing parts of his body, some of which he later ate.

full story here

reuters said:
Meiwes corresponded with 400 people over the Internet in his search for a willing victim before stumbling upon Bernd-Juergen Brandes, a high-ranking IT manager with German firm Siemens.

full story here

Now, my question is this: Sure, this was very gruesome and a man is now dead - but he was perfectly willing to go through with everything. He was willing to be killed and eaten. Should the cannibal have been convicted and sentenced to eight and a half years in prison?

If a storeowner gives you permission to break into his store and steal whatever you want - and you do - Should you be punished?

If somebody gives you permission to do nasty things to their body - why should it be illegal for you to indulge yourself?

El_Machinae · May 9, 2006

Well - the "I support assisted suicide" part of me thinks that it should be okay.

The "slaughtering meat in a city is not allowed" part of me thinks the guy should have gotten a license first

jonatas · May 9, 2006

I don't think a person should be able to legally consent to be "murdered". Medical issues and euthanasia are another subject altogether IMO.

warpus · May 9, 2006

jonatas said:
I don't think a person should be able to legally consent to be "murdered". Medical issues and euthanasia are another subject altogether IMO.

Why not? It's my body - shouldn't I be able to do anything with it that I want - provided that it doesn't physically hurt somebody else?

.Shane. · May 9, 2006

I bet he'll sign up for kitchen detail.

Oh, and $5 says this thread degenerates into a ridiculous argument that has absolutely no value in the real world. Takers?

thetrooper · May 9, 2006

Mein Teil anyone?

jonatas · May 9, 2006

warpus said:
Why not? It's my body - shouldn't I be able to do anything with it that I want - provided that it doesn't physically hurt somebody else?

You are involving another party, if you are being murdered. Or if you are the murderer, you are doing it to someone else. So it's already more complicated than suicide or doing something to yourself. I think it would be detrimental to society, and I will go out on a limb here and suggest that individuals who involve themselves in such activity are likely suffering from psychological issues and could pose a threat to society at large. Of course we're talking about a very small percentage of society here that would actively pursue this, but it potentially dangerous and abhorrent enought to warrant criminal prosecution IMO.

jonatas · May 9, 2006

.Shane. said:
I bet he'll sign up for kitchen detail.

Oh, and $5 says this thread degenerates into a ridiculous argument that has absolutely no value in the real world. Takers?

I'm just killing a few minutes this afternoon

warpus · May 9, 2006

jonatas said:
You are involving another party, if you are being murdered. Or if you are the murderer, you are doing it to someone else. So it's already more complicated than suicide or doing something to yourself. I think it would be detrimental to society, and I will go out on a limb here and suggest that individuals who involve themselves in such activity are likely suffering from psychological issues and could pose a threat to society at large. Of course we're talking about a very small percentage of society here that would actively pursue this, but it potentially dangerous and abhorrent enought to warrant criminal prosecution IMO.

Sure, but does suffering from psychological issues alone warrant jailtime?

Isn't your body your own posession - I argue that it is. How could it be not? Are you not free to do what you wish with things that belong to you?

ComradeDavo · May 9, 2006

thetrooper said:
Mein Teil anyone?

Exactly what I was thinking!

jonatas · May 9, 2006

warpus said:
Sure, but does suffering from psychological issues alone warrant jailtime?

No, but if these problems ie. a plain desire to be murdered or murder lead to criminal behaviour (murder), then I believe such action should not excused. Imagine you could potentially have someone murder a bunch of willing victims. I would seriously question the sanity of such a person and consider them dangerous to society at large.

IglooDame · May 9, 2006

jonatas said:
You are involving another party, if you are being murdered. Or if you are the murderer, you are doing it to someone else. So it's already more complicated than suicide or doing something to yourself. I think it would be detrimental to society, and I will go out on a limb here and suggest that individuals who involve themselves in such activity are likely suffering from psychological issues and could pose a threat to society at large. Of course we're talking about a very small percentage of society here that would actively pursue this, but it potentially dangerous and abhorrent enought to warrant criminal prosecution IMO.

How about if it was, say, limb amputation rather than consensual homicide? Or just a severe whipping? I'm wondering where the line is for you, regarding where individuals who involve themselves in such activities start posing a thread to society at large.

warpus · May 9, 2006

jonatas said:
No, but if these problems ie. a plain desire to be murdered or murder lead to criminal behaviour (murder), then I believe such action should not excused. Imagine you could potentially have someone murder a bunch of willing victims. I would seriously question the sanity of such a person and consider them dangerous to society at large.

If he only goes through with it with willing victims, I don't really see a problem. They want to die, he wants to kill - everyone's happy.

jonatas · May 9, 2006

warpus said:
If he only goes through with it with willing victims, I don't really see a problem. They want to die, he wants to kill - everyone's happy.

Sorry but I wouldn't trust such an individual. And tell me, should said murderer report his legal murders to his police just for bureaucracy, or can they go legally unreported?

jonatas · May 9, 2006

IglooDude said:
How about if it was, say, limb amputation rather than consensual homicide? Or just a severe whipping? I'm wondering where the line is for you, regarding where individuals who involve themselves in such activities start posing a thread to society at large.

Whipping? No that's ok

I would draw the line at murder as not being a matter of consent, unless there are serious medical issues. ie Euthanasia. Unnecessary limb amputation should also be made illegal. lol Society will have to pay for a self inflicted amputee then.

warpus · May 9, 2006

jonatas said:
Sorry but I wouldn't trust such an individual.

I don't trust bikers or lawyers, but it doesn't mean that they should be all thrown in jail.

And tell me, should said murderer report his legal murders to his police just for bureaucracy, or can they go legally unreported?

The families of the victims should be notified.

IglooDame · May 9, 2006

jonatas said:
Sorry but I wouldn't trust such an individual. And tell me, should said murderer report his legal murders to his police just for bureaucracy, or can they go legally unreported?

Just because he likes ending people's lives doesn't mean he's not trustworthy.

I'd think that he'd want to report his legal murders to the police in advance, simply so that they can confirm it is consensual with the future victim and thereby avoid criminal prosecution down the road.

jonatas · May 9, 2006

warpus said:
I don't trust bikers or lawyers, but it doesn't mean that they should be all thrown in jail.

.

Sure. However if a lawyer commits a murder, then he should be thrown in jail. I assume as a basis that murder for pleasure, even with a willing victim, is still unacceptable and dangerous to society at large. I honestly think individuals who practiced this could potentially beome involved in even greater problems and put others at risk. This is basically my last post in this thread this afternoon though

warpus · May 9, 2006

jonatas said:
Sure. However if a lawyer commits a murder, then he should be thrown in jail. I assume as a basis that murder for pleasure, even with a willing victim, is still unacceptable and dangerous to society at large. I honestly think individuals who practiced this could potentially beome involved in even greater problems and put others at risk. This is basically my last post in this thread this afternoon though

I see your point.. but I still disagree.

I see this as equivalent to sex/rape. If you have sex with a willing victim - no charges are (usually) filed. It becomes a private action between two consenting adults.

On the other hand, if you have sex with someone who doesn't consent - you are infringing on his/her rights and thus breaking the law.

warpus · May 9, 2006

Is the only reason this man is in jail because life is viewed as being sacred, and thus even suicide would be illegal?

German Cannibal guilty of murder - your thoughts?

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