Pasi Meets a God

Pasi Nurminen · May 28, 2006

First off, let me tell you that there are no pictures; photography inside the masoleum is prohibited, and even if it weren't I don't think I'd be disrespectful enough to try.

Anyways, inside a rather monolithic masoleum in Hanoi is Ho Chi Minh's body, preserved as a hero of Vietnamese struggle for freedom and mankind's ability to produce genius every now and then. It doesn't occupy that much land area in the city itself, and the masoleum is not under heavy guard. The only guards were largely ceremonial, elaborately dressed and sporting beautiful but obsolete rifles from decades ago. Security isn't an issue though as the area is right next to the massive Hanoi Citadel military bases.

I would estimate that one only gets to see Ho Chi Minh's body inside his glass sarcophagus for about forty seconds or so. It's difficult to accurately gauge, because when in the prescence of such a man, time sort of stands still while you make your way around the room. Ho looks very peaceful as he lays there, definitely showing signs of the work done on his body once a year in Russia but not enough to take away from the experience of being in the same room as him. It's a true shame that no one in any western country has throughout history come close to being as great a patriot, thinker, and freedom fighter as Ho Chi Minh was, and it's an even greater shame that he did not live to see his dream of a Vietnam free from foreign aggression. But of course in 1975 he was vindicated as his country was reunited, and the millions who make the pilgrimage (almost all of them Vietnamese) each year to see him do so to see one of the greatest men of all time.

I can't wait to see Mao in a Tiananmen Square in a couple of months!

EDIT: Ah, crap, I misspelled my own username in the title. Could a mod fix it?Moderator Action: Sure - Rik

CaptainF · May 28, 2006

Pasi Nurminen said:
First off, let me tell you that there are no pictures; photography inside the masoleum is prohibited, and even if it weren't I don't think I'd be disrespectful enough to try.

Anyways, inside a rather monolithic masoleum in Hanoi is Ho Chi Minh's body, preserved as a hero of Vietnamese struggle for freedom and mankind's ability to produce genius every now and then. It doesn't occupy that much land area in the city itself, and the masoleum is not under heavy guard. The only guards were largely ceremonial, elaborately dressed and sporting beautiful but obsolete rifles from decades ago. Security isn't an issue though as the area is right next to the massive Hanoi Citadel military bases.

I would estimate that one only gets to see Ho Chi Minh's body inside his glass sarcophagus for about forty seconds or so. It's difficult to accurately gauge, because when in the prescence of such a man, time sort of stands still while you make your way around the room. Ho looks very peaceful as he lays there, definitely showing signs of the work done on his body once a year in Russia but not enough to take away from the experience of being in the same room as him. It's a true shame that no one in any western country has throughout history come close to being as great a patriot, thinker, and freedom fighter as Ho Chi Minh was, and it's an even greater shame that he did not live to see his dream of a Vietnam free from foreign aggression. But of course in 1975 he was vindicated as his country was reunited, and the millions who make the pilgrimage (almost all of them Vietnamese) each year to see him do so to see one of the greatest men of all time.

I can't wait to see Mao in a Tiananmen Square in a couple of months!

EDIT: Ah, crap, I misspelled my own username in the title. Could a mod fix it?

That must have been quite an experience! You should also visit the Lenin Mausoleum in Moscow, lemme know how that turns out.

Ho Chi Minh was certainly a great figure in his country's history, and most certainly a true warrior for independence.

Pasi Nurminen · May 28, 2006

Dawgphood001 said:
That must have been quite an experience! You should also visit the Lenin Mausoleum in Moscow, lemme know how that turns out.

Ho Chi Minh was certainly a great figure in his country's history, and most certainly a true warrior for independence.

Yes, I really want to see Lenin as well. It's a shame they removed Stalin's body and buried him next to the Kremlin, it would be a real blast to get to see Stalin as well.

warpus · May 28, 2006

Pasi Nurminen said:
Yes, I really want to see Lenin as well. It's a shame they removed Stalin's body and buried him next to the Kremlin, it would be a real blast to get to see Stalin as well.

Damn, now I can't go spit at him.

PHSikes · May 28, 2006

If you ever get a chance go to Jesus's tomb in Jerusalem, it is really impressive.....and you get to take pictures...

Pontiuth Pilate · May 28, 2006

Haven't they built a sort of ecumenical church around it?

Pontiuth Pilate · May 28, 2006

LOL, of course, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

Yeeek · May 28, 2006

a God?

Are people revering this person as a god? I just this is as an iconisation backed up by the Communist Party of Vietnam wich i would like to add is the only legal party in Vietnam.

C~G · May 28, 2006

The thread title made me think what this is really about at first.

It sounded like "God meets past", like God had suffered from amnesia for a while or has been sleeping and now he should face the past.

Anyway, I have never understood the desire to see these single human beings graves.

Much better idea is like visit the area of Somme and think about the sheer number of graves rather than see these invidual fellows who are lifted up to the pedestal for no reason at all. This goes for all the political and religious leaders of the world.
I don't care about them.
I think they were remembered enough during their life time while these "ordinary people" were forgotten so why still pay attention to these "important persons" after their death rather than those that paid the real price?

Even though I support the idea of remembering everyone's existence during their lifetime rather than after it.

nonconformist · May 28, 2006

Ho Chi Minh a god?

I think not.

Pasi Nurminen · May 28, 2006

nonconformist said:
Ho Chi Minh a god?

I think not.

Well, nobody's accusing you of being right. You'd think differently if you met him.

plarq · May 28, 2006

Well, for Mao in Tiananmen:

I visited the museum of Chairworm (sorry, Chairman) Meow(Mao) when I was a kid of ten. The site of this museum sits perfectly in the N-S axis of Tiananmen Square, which represent the position of "our beloved" and passed away Mao.

The masoleum isn't heavily guarded, but it charges a foreigner more than a Chinese. The funny fact: umbrella is prohibited inside the masoleum. Of course cameras are out of question.

Pasi Nurminen · May 28, 2006

That kind of sucks, Ho Chi Minh's was free to all and sundry.

YNCS · May 28, 2006

Considering that I spent a year fighting Uncle Ho and his Merrie Men, I'd hardly consider him a god. Powerhungry, totalitarian dictators may think of themselves as gods, but that belief is usually not shared by the rest of humanity.

C~G · May 28, 2006

YNCS said:
Considering that I spent a year fighting Uncle Ho and his Merrie Men, I'd hardly consider him a god.

Question is would you visit graveyard solely made for those merrie men and not for their leaders?

If so why, and if not why?

I'm curious.

YNCS · May 28, 2006

No, but then visiting graveyards is not one of my hobbies.

I respect the men on the other side of the war. They had no more choice in the matter than I did. I despise the men, on both sides, who started the war. I have as little respect for Lyndon Johnson as I do for Ho Chi Minh.

Pasi Nurminen · May 28, 2006

YNCS said:
Considering that I spent a year fighting Uncle Ho and his Merrie Men, I'd hardly consider him a god. Powerhungry, totalitarian dictators may think of themselves as gods, but that belief is usually not shared by the rest of humanity.

Ho Chi Minh was not powerhungry, and he most certainly wasn't a dictator. Your post demonstrates nothing more than sheer ignorance about him. And nobody's impressed that you "spent a year fighting Uncle Ho," that adds nothing to this thread.

Bozo Erectus · May 28, 2006

I love graveyards. Unfortunately, the ones here in the States dont go back far enough for my taste. For me its fascinating to stumble across an ancient tombstone, read what it says (or sometimes, try to read it) and contemplate that entire lifetime, that came and went so long ago.

On topic, dead bodies dont interest me. Regardless of who they used to belong to.

C~G · May 28, 2006

YNCS said:
No, but then visiting graveyards is not one of my hobbies.

I respect the men on the other side of the war. They had no more choice in the matter than I did. I despise the men, on both sides, who started the war. I have as little respect for Lyndon Johnson as I do for Ho Chi Minh.

I guess I got the answer what I wanted to hear.

Brothers in Arms, eh?

And quite contrary Pasi Nurminen, YNCS added some flavour to this thread. Which apparently escaped you, which is a pity.

Xenocrates · May 28, 2006

My grandfather in law also fought in Vietnam.

He had the sense to choose the winning side!

The Vietnamese (and their 'helpers') fought like lions and deserve respect. I don't know enough to make any comment about their leader.

PS Highgate cemetary is also good if you get to London.

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