Watch JesusOnEez Play His First Monarch Game & Lose...Badly...

JesusOnEez

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I've never played Monarch, I've only read a few Monarch strategy threads, so I'm pretty much in the dark...I've won at Prince the one and only time I've played that difficulty level, so I though this might be a good opportunity for you to have a good laugh as a fail dismally at Monarch. :goodjob:

I'll be playing a normal size continents map, epic speed, as a random civ :)crazyeye:), and will be winging it all the way.

This is a Warlords game as well, so I'm reeaallly in the dark!

Starting screenshots and initial thoughts to the starting location in a few hours...
 
I begin my first ever Monarch game and third full Warlords game with the settings laid out above.

The random number generator gives me...



Aggressive and Financial will both be handy on this level I should think...a free Combat I and the benfits of being Financial are obvious (if you've got a good amount of grass/floodplain). Have we?



Errr...no. :mad:

What we do have is the makings of a production monster, given that I'd have to farm pretty much every non-hill tile next to the rivers to keep it growing.

I move the Scout onto the Wine...



This yields nothing of any real interest, apart from the fact there's more grassland down there, and upon further exploration may be a good second city spot to get cottages up and running.

Under normal circumstances, I would probably settle in place, but I would gain nor lose much by settling on the grass hill S1 of the Settler's current position for extra defence. I would lose a turn doing this...good idea on Monarch? Probably not.

So, my normal route on a start like this would be to research;

Mining > Bronze Working > Agriculture

My initial build order would usually be;

Worker > Chopped Worker > Chopped Settler > Warrior > Warrior (for escort).

During this build period, the Wheat would be hooked up to speed up Settler production.

Any thoughts?

I enclose a save just in case anyone wants to play along (no spoilers please if you do play). I've zipped the save because the upload system won't yet allow the CivWarlordsSave extension...
 

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Wow, this start stinks... It might be worth moving your settler somewhere just on the chance that there might be better tiles in the fog. You probably don't want to settle in place because your capital won't be able to grow past size 7 or so. It looks like there is some grassland to the east so my vote is to move your settler SE, SE onto the hill and make a decision from there. You might even want to consider regenerating your map.
 
PeteJ said:
Wow, this start stinks... It might be worth moving your settler somewhere just on the chance that there might be better tiles in the fog. You probably don't want to settle in place because your capital won't be able to grow past size 7 or so. It looks like there is some grassland to the east so my vote is to move your settler SE, SE onto the hill and make a decision from there. You might even want to consider regenerating your map.


It's a bad start in the sense that he can't leverage his starting techs here.

If you already have trouble with Monarch games, this'll be pretty challenging for you. I'd presonally settle where you started. You can farm every non-hill tile there and set up a bunch of windmills if you don't have enough food so food isn;t a problem. I personally would cottage all the grassland and farm all the plains and scout for some commerce sites.

I'd also probably build a worker and research Agriculture to start.

What kind of map is this anyway?
 
It's a continents map (stated in the first post).

Not sure about cottages for this site...farming will allow for extra mining along the way...I think I could make this a pretty good production city for an early war...maybe I can steal someone else's much better site.

I'm not one for regenerating...I always play what I'm given!
 
It will definitely be a challenging start. Lots of plains, very little grassland, you're far north with tundra within sight, and it looks like you have desert to your west. :sad: I'd keep my fingers crossed for floodplains over there.

In hindsight, you would have been better off taking full advantage of the Scout's two moves by going 1SW and then 1NW.

Settling 1S on the grassland hill gains you a defense bonus for the capital (a negligible benefit that you should hope to never need). It trades two plains hills for two other plains hills (no change), swaps a grassland hill for one grassland (slightly better), and one forested grassland riverside tile (I think--it's in the fog) for a forested plains tile, a definite downgrade. Not a big advantage, and a lost turn to boot. I think you should stay put.

Based on my limited experience on Monarch, barb activity is much more intense. So be prepared for that, especially since you're so close to barb-generating tundra. Your first "war" will probably be with the barbs; mine usually is. You'll need copper and Axemen ASAP, so get that Scout moving. As well (or if BW reveals no copper), you're one tech from Archery and may want to research it yourself for fog-busters rather than waiting to tech trade for it. The upside is lots of XPs from barb-busting, and you may be able to capture a barb city or two.
 
Disclaimer: I don't have Warlords, yet, so my thoughts may be total nonsense.
JesusOnEez said:
So, my normal route on a start like this would be to research;

Mining > Bronze Working > Agriculture

My initial build order would usually be;

Worker > Chopped Worker > Chopped Settler > Warrior > Warrior (for escort).
I would start by researching
Agr > Wheel > Pottery
with a build order of
Worker > Warrior > Warrior > Settler > Worker (or maybe second Worker > Settler instead)

I would hook up the wheat first, followed by a cottage atop that wine. After Monarchy you can convert it to a Winery if you need the happiness. But, it will be 4 commerce once that cottage completes.

Your wheat will let you cottage 3 plains tiles, or work a grassland hill and a plains hill. Which way to go, I think, depends on the surrounding land.
 
Sisiutil said:
You'll need copper and Axemen ASAP, so get that Scout moving. As well (or if BW reveals no copper), you're one tech from Archery and may want to research it yourself for fog-busters rather than waiting to tech trade for it. The upside is lots of XPs from barb-busting, and you may be able to capture a barb city or two.
Archery is a very good alternative path if you're planning on grabbing land instead of warring on Monarch. Though with Ragnar's traits you're better off getting axemen if possible.

If you don't have copper nearby I suggest immediately researching archery.
 
Soooo many hills and no suprlus food to mine them & work them. It looks from the screenshot that 2W might yield a plains/hills, keep the wheat & wine, & get you on a coast. I don't know what the trading post (unique lighthouse) does as I haven't played these guys yet, but I'd take a flyer and go 2W. If there's no seafood resource from there or the terrain still looks bad it might be time for a regenerate map. It's definately not the worst start ever but I would almost certainly move. It's not worth wasting all those hills to settle in place.

EDIT - Oh, and 2W keeps fresh water and allows for a lighthouse-aided 1 space lake. Yeah, I like 2W.
 
I'd settle in place. The game always give you something reasonable for the starting position. Even though it doesn't look great at the moment, I reckon it'll be a good position in the long run. I expect theres another food resource in the fog somewhere, and it's quite likely there will be either iron, copper or horses in that fat x as well.
 
jimbob27 said:
I'd settle in place. The game always give you something reasonable for the starting position. Even though it doesn't look great at the moment, I reckon it'll be a good position in the long run. I expect theres another food resource in the fog somewhere, and it's quite likely there will be either iron, copper or horses in that fat x as well.

The only hidden square that could contain a food resource is the grassland hill 1 NE 1 E of the settler. The square 2N of the settler probably won't since it is next to the wheat. I don't think the game puts 2 foods next to each other. My vote is to move the settler 1 SE then 1 NE on to the hill. Or perhaps 2 SE since it looks like the is another coast down that way.... perhaps some seafood nearby. Of course this is all a gamble that might not be worth taking on Monarch, as is moving west on the chance that those desert tiles are floodplains. All I know is that the current spot stinks.

Edit: One of the desert tiles to the west is a hill so definitely not floodplains.

Edit#2: On the other hand, the lack of visible resources may indicate a war resource(hopefully bronze) in the "+". This would be helpful for the inevitable barbarian rush that you will have to deal with.
 
Hi, as you mentioned before, this could be a productoin city. How about undiscovered iron or copper resources? the starting locations in Civ IV are fairly balanced, i have yet to get a capital which is lousy :) .. just a thought..
 
I quite like this site, a pity though as you are a sea faring civ and you are not on the sea! I like the 2 grassland under the forests next to rivers.
As an experienced monarch level player, I would move south to the hill. You may get a lot of barbs and that extra defence is handy. Also the extra hammer from settling on a hill would be a big benefit. I would research agriculture and then archery then mining, I would build a worker and then archers. I wouldn't normally gamble on bronze working and nearby copper, its risky on monarch as the barbs will come and either mash your warrior cities or your improvements before you can pump out the axemen. However with being financial and having a lake you can get bronze working earlier and should have time. 2800 BC normally for barbs appearing.
Farm the wheat and mine the wine, use archers primarily to defend hills with forests, use 2 archers to defend bare hills. You want to defend that wheat and also your wine mine. Thats 3 great early squares to work with the lake.
Don't even think about building a settler until you can defend what you have and you have explored the surrounding area.
A lake and desert to the west (from what I can make out) could be promising.
With the civ you are playing though, you really need to find coast and try and build as many cities as possible with sea access - financial and lighthouses = excellent commerce from sea squares.
I would like to play as well, however not got Warlords yet from Sendit:mad:
You are playing normal size, how many opponents do you have?
 
You could check if the desert tiles in the SW corner have fresh water. If so then there are your floodplains you wanted. It would mean loosing out on the wheat but maybe you get some extra resources next to the floodplains. Just a thought.
 
best move for the scout would have been NW, NW giving you a good sight on a potential coast.
Now you can only presume it's a coast.
If it's a coast (i'm not sure now!) you'd be better off with settling 2W, or W,NW. This way you can build your UB, and gain a high food lake. Without lighthouse, a lake is just a soso tile.
 
cabert said:
best move for the scout would have been NW, NW giving you a good sight on a potential coast.
Now you can only presume it's a coast.
If it's a coast (i'm not sure now!) you'd be better off with settling 2W, or W,NW. This way you can build your UB, and gain a high food lake. Without lighthouse, a lake is just a soso tile.


Its a good early tile to work for a starting city, almost as good as an oasis.
 
shivute said:
Its a good early tile to work for a starting city, almost as good as an oasis.

sure
with fishing as a starting tech, being next to a lake is good

in the first turns, you'll work the lake while researching agri, then you'll work the wheat

after that, the lake can still be a good tile if you build a lighthouse (a trading post for the Viking :))

My guess is settle 2W, work the lake, research agri, build a warrior (you have 0 defense right now!) up to size 2, then switch to worker.
 
OK...I played without reading anything after my previous post, but all good points...I, er...didn't work the lake tile. :/

4000BC
I start Archery due to the fear factor of Barbs. I already have Hunting as a starting tech so I can get it fairly quickly. I've settled in place because there was little to gain in moving, and I didn't want to waste a turn. I've started a Worker so my first port of call is to farm the Wheat. Settling in place also revealed Pigs in the BFC, so production monster is definately looking good. I'll probably farm the grass next to the river and cottage the plains tiles and Wine, depending on how the math pans out. The Scout will be scouting in a circular pattern around my town.

Archery - 11
Worker - 23




3880BC
I learn Mysticism from a GH!

3670BC
My Scout hasn't explored as much as I'd like as two Wolf attacks has meant he needed healing time, although he does now have Combat I. Archery has come in and I start Agriculture.

Agriculture - 12
Worker - 12


3400BC
I have been given money from a GH, and also a Warrior! I will use the Warrior for fog busting in the tundra area, although I'll be using Archers for that primarily, once I get some...



3310BC
Animal Husbandry comes in and so does my Worker. He is immediately put to work on the Wheat. I start The Wheel, and an Archer.

The Wheel - 12
Archer - 18
Growth - 17 (Although Farm will be up before that).


3250BC
I meet Izzy.



3100BC
My Scout dies to a Barbarian Panther in the southern jungles.



3040BC
My Farm is complete which boosts the Growth rate. The Worker is sent South to Farm the grass tile.

The Wheel - 3
Archer - 9
Growth - 2


2950BC
Nidaros has grown to size 2 and I start working the Wine tile as it has two Hammers and three Gold. This obviously improves my research rate and speeds up the production of my Archer. I start on Pottery.

Pottery - 9
Archer - 2
Growth - 11






It's going reasonably well I think. Losing the Scout was a pain, but I gained Mysticism for free so I can build Monuments (Obelisks in vanilla Civ) from the word go when a new city is founded. I think I would have been better with Mining straight after Agriculture so I could have gotten one of those plains hills on line. My Worker will have nothing to do after the current Farm is built, and that's never a good thing...although I could get him building a road.

Thoughts before I continue?
 
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