Military Academies

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FullyCompletely

Cheftain. i just cook.
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Does anyone else feel like a 25% boost to military unit production is very inconsequential considering that a) great generals are scarce even compared to other great people and are better used as warlords leading an elite group of crack troops (usually cavalry or tanks) and b) heroic epic gives 4x this benefit.

I think the military academy needs to be raised to at least 50% military production, either this or combine the "great instructor" XP bonus with the military academy.
 
FullyCompletely said:
Does anyone else feel like a 25% boost to military unit production is very inconsequential considering that a) great generals are scarce even compared to other great people and are better used as warlords leading an elite group of crack troops (usually cavalry or tanks) and b) heroic epic gives 4x this benefit.

I think the military academy needs to be raised to at least 50% military production, either this or combine the "great instructor" XP bonus with the military academy.
Click to expand...

No. They are only scarce when compared to all other great people combined. My last game I got 6 great generals. 1 warlord, 1 military academy in my #2 military production city (heroic epic in my #1) and 4 instructors in my heroic epic city.

I have never gotten 6 great merchants, or great artists or great prophets in a game. I have gotten that many engineers and scientists but I tend to focus on them.

So overall i think its balanced.
 
Agreed. I think that the bonus is balanced enough, especially if you are running Bureaucracy. In war time you have your capital & HE city handling your power units and the +25% enhanced city(s) lending a support role designing Siege equipment or counter-their-counter troops.

Any bigger of a bonus might make gearing up for war TOO easy and reward the warmonger too much with even crazier production.
 
I completely agree, I think the military academy needs to be at least +50% military production. The science academies are +50% research, which is huge. So why not give the great generals something more powerful too then? +25% is rather insignificant, and is just not worth wasting a general on. Overall, I think the generals need to be made more abundant and more powerful. And for the person who said he has never had 6 artists or merchants in a game, it is rather easy to get that many if those are the specialists you are focusing on. If you go for a cultural victory, it's easy to get 10+ artists. But near impossible to get that many generals.

So, to Firaxis: Strengthen the Generals and make them much more frequent! They are the purpose of the expansion pack! Don't be so cheap with them!

FullyCompletely said:
Does anyone else feel like a 25% boost to military unit production is very inconsequential considering that a) great generals are scarce even compared to other great people and are better used as warlords leading an elite group of crack troops (usually cavalry or tanks) and b) heroic epic gives 4x this benefit.

I think the military academy needs to be raised to at least 50% military production, either this or combine the "great instructor" XP bonus with the military academy.
Click to expand...
 
Well, in my current game on noble for example, I've conquered 50% of the map by 1500AD and have only gotten 3 great generals, one of which came from researching fascism. I suppose on higher difficulty levels great generals will emerge more frequently, with the increase opposing troops faced.

I'd like to point out that I have indeed had games with more than 5 great prophets, as well diferent games with as many great merchants, it's rather easy with the right wonders. I primarily play on noble, so I can see how the selected difficulty level impacts the emergence of great people.
 
I agree, at the moment there is no real ioncentive to use GGs for military academies.
They´re better used as military instructors or leaders for your frontline troops.

Having +50% instead of just +25% building speed with a MA would increase its use and therefore make it more likely that someone really uses his GG for a MA.
 
In my current game, I have 8 generals (on my way to my 9th) and I haven't even gotten Infantry or Fascism yet (it's around 1898) :) huge lakes, normal speed, noble.
 
At the moment the MA does seem a little weak but I still think it is balanced. Imagine if it was +50% instead of +25%: Just 2 GG could have the same effect as the heroic epic! That seems a little overpowered. Think of how rediculous that would be. Late in the game you could have 3+ HE cities! Or you could put 4 MAs, the Heroic Epic, and with forge, factory and power you'd have +400% production! overkill yes, but still nuts.

I'd say MAs are a little weak but fine the way they are...
 
FullyCompletely said:
Well, in my current game on noble for example, I've conquered 50% of the map by 1500AD and have only gotten 3 great generals, one of which came from researching fascism. I suppose on higher difficulty levels great generals will emerge more frequently, with the increase opposing troops faced.

I'd like to point out that I have indeed had games with more than 5 great prophets, as well diferent games with as many great merchants, it's rather easy with the right wonders. I primarily play on noble, so I can see how the selected difficulty level impacts the emergence of great people.
Click to expand...

Yeah, keep in mind, if you're conquering half the map with only 3 great generals, you simply don't need them, and really shouldn't expect to see many more of them. As difficulty goes up, you will encounter more resistance and get more generals. I've just completed a largely "peaceful builder" game with Wang Kon on emperor where I ended up with four total (one from Fascism), probabably controlling 20% of the map when all was said and done.
 
I think the frequency and effects are ok. Then again, I usually don't bother with the Military Academy - the plus two experience is just too good to pass up, especially when piled on top of each other in my main unit building city.
 
Stuie said:
I think the frequency and effects are ok. Then again, I usually don't bother with the Military Academy - the plus two experience is just too good to pass up, especially when piled on top of each other in my main unit building city.
Click to expand...

Heh, well, here's the thing. In my last game, I was frantically trying to keep up for tech, and that put my production quite a bit down... I actually found the academy more important than the bonus experience, particularly since I was a protective civ producing mostly gunpowder units.

It's definetly situational, but even the +25% production has its role.
 
AfterShafter said:
Heh, well, here's the thing. In my last game, I was frantically trying to keep up for tech, and that put my production quite a bit down... I actually found the academy more important than the bonus experience, particularly since I was a protective civ producing mostly gunpowder units.

It's definetly situational, but even the +25% production has its role.
Click to expand...

And that's the beauty of it - there is a valid choice to make. If that 25% means I'm going to be able to pump out a certain unit in 1 turn as opposed to two, I'll take it.
 
Acceptable_Loss said:
At the moment the MA does seem a little weak but I still think it is balanced. Imagine if it was +50% instead of +25%: Just 2 GG could have the same effect as the heroic epic! That seems a little overpowered. Think of how rediculous that would be. Late in the game you could have 3+ HE cities! Or you could put 4 MAs, the Heroic Epic, and with forge, factory and power you'd have +400% production! overkill yes, but still nuts.

I'd say MAs are a little weak but fine the way they are...
Click to expand...

MAs are not Stackable... that is the basic problem, you can only have 1 per city, since they are only useful when building units and more than 1 pure military city is rarely needed with Heroic Epic, they really aren't worth it compared to a GG settled in the Heroic Epic City

Perhaps make them 35%, and give a culture boost.
 
I agree the buildings should be better. 50% seems to high, 25% is too low, I like the previous posters recommendation of 35%. As it is, I can't see a compelling reason why I shouldn't just use the generals as their +2 xp in the town with the Heroic Epic.
 
Krikkitone said:
MAs are not Stackable... that is the basic problem, you can only have 1 per city, since they are only useful when building units and more than 1 pure military city is rarely needed with Heroic Epic, they really aren't worth it compared to a GG settled in the Heroic Epic City

Perhaps make them 35%, and give a culture boost.
Click to expand...


Hmm... I wasn't aware of that they weren't stackable, that's good to know. In that case they are definately on the weak side, but I still believe 50% to be a little much.

35% seems like it could make them a little more even with the other GG bonuses
 
Hmm, I never used a GG for a military academy. My HE city can produce enough units, and somtimes captured AI cities have military academies.
I usually have two warlords, and the rest joins the HE city as a great instructor.
 
Does the instructor exp stack if you have more than one? Or is it like having theoc and vassalage civics?
 
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