Alter the way you get religion(s)

Instead of acquiring religion through the tech tree, it might be a beter idea to make them all available (or in groups of 2-3) from the start. You would then have to put a city, on the religion mode (like for wealth, culture, research) and choose from a list of religions. After a city has started this proces, it will reach a point where it's religious level is high enough to discover the chosen religion. The more cities that or on this quest, the faster the religion will be 'born'.

You could put several cities on different religions. The actual "religioning" process could go straight forward, like it is now, or it could work parallel to the city/cities production, in such a way that you can build units/buildings, at the same time as you're trying to acquire the religion. The cities that took part in the researching of the religion would then automaticly acquire the new religion upon completion. With a minimum number of turns to qualify as being a co-"religioning" city.


This is ofcourse just one possible way of altering the concept.
If you've got any thoughts on the subject ...


The main thoughts are :

1. Separating the techs, and the religions
2. Enabling the possiblity to fetch a religion by using a scout (JonnyB )
3. Enabling the possiblity to choose/select your religion after leaving the paganistic state (ProfessorK )
4. Adding several forms of paganism before actual getting a 'major' religion (Fiend777Fits)
5. Giving cities religious slots to add religions. This own or foreign percentage could decide about the city productivity.
6. Give the non state religions a harder time to add themselfs to your cities (religious slots)
The difficulty level to add another religion should rise each time one is added.
7. Allowing the possiblility for a (religious) crusade. Perhaps because that nation also has the shrine of your religion, but hasn't adopted your religion.
8. A religious victory ? When your civs state religion has reached 65% of the global population for example.

+ If each religion had some kind of bonus to offer, it would motivate players to get it first.
Just like wonders give bonuses for building wonders.

+ They should become available at the same time, in groups of two or three, to avoid that every civ automaticly has it's own religion.
Once a religion is acuired (for Buddishm by meditation, for Christianity by prayer, ...), it'll be replace by the next one in line, based on their time of appearence in human history. In order to keep the religion racing afloat.


Similar or Related Threads :

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Modpacks :

True Prophets : needs a Great Prophet to found a religion (Bast)

i'm not sure each civ having its own religion is a good idea

Its good, im tired of having to go through a million religious techs to gain access to so many others later on

PMabey said:

i'm not sure each civ having its own religion is a good idea

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The idea is not to give each civ it's own religion, but to give them an equal opertunity to do so. They can still race to get to a religion first.

If each religion had some kind of bonus to offer, it would motivate players to get it first.
Just like wonders give bonuses for building wonders.

They should become available in groups of two or three, to avoid that every civ automaticly has it's own religion.
Once a religion is acuired (for Buddishm by meditation, for Christianity by prayer, ...), it'll be replace by the next one in line, based on their time of appearence in human history. In order to keep the religion racing afloat.

All Civs already have equal opportunity to found a religion.

Unless there is one civ that researches it's tech fast enough to monopolies most of all of them.
( I've actualy done this several times, just to see how the AI would react. Having set my religious civic to theocracy, to prevent any non state religion to spread. The AI cheated and spontiously started to acuire different religions in cities all over the globe. )

But the aim of this suggestion is to detach them from the tech tree, and to have more civs with different religions in the beginning of a game instead of at the end.

Pitboss said:

Unless there is one civ that researches it's tech fast enough to monopolies most of all of them.
( I've actualy done this several times, just to see how the AI would react. Having set my religious civic to theocracy, to prevent any non state religion to spread. The AI cheated and spontiously started to acuire different religions in cities all over the globe. )

Click to expand...

That's not a cheat. Theocracy prevents YOUR cities from acquiring any religion other than your state religion.

It has no impact on how religions spread to other civs.

On a different note....

So, you don't fully understand how religion is implemented in Civ IV, but you're suggesting changes to it?

gdgrimm said:

So, you don't fully understand how religion is implemented in Civ IV, but you're suggesting changes to it?

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I might have misunderstood the part about theocracy, but that doesn't stop me from understanding the rest. Besides you don't have to know every detail to make a suggestion. The idea is to get criticsm on the idea not on what I know or do not know. Although I like to get criticated on the idea, it's the ideal way to learn and to improve the subject at hand.

So thanks, but remember this idea and my knowledge are to separate things.
How about telling me, what you feel might be wrong with it ?
And thanks again for clearing up my mistake.

edit : Theocracy Effects: Units produced in cities with state religion receive +2 experience, no spread of non-state religion
It actually doesn't mention the effect on your neighbouring civs. (page 81 of the civ manual)

edit : Perhaps my rebuttal is best explained in a compartif example. For instance :
When talking about a democratic system, do you need to comprehend all political parties ... ?

One change I've been thinking of is to be able to have scouts/explorers visit a holy city for several turns and morph into missionaries. As another way to acquire an ally's religion.

Sounds like a nice improvement, and it creates yet another reason to open your borders to other civs. I'll add it to the first post.

So, you're suggesting that religions be "bought," or researched like techs, only separate from the tech race?

Bying a religion wouldn't make any sence, and no I'm not suggesting it. Unless you want to include scientology

And yes, researching them ... but not like techs ... rather like culture.
But instead of becoming a city with a legendary culture ... you've got yourself a freshly founded religion.

The difference with the tech tree is that you could put more cities onto that religious quest, that would result in an even faster increase of your civs religious ratio for that particular religion.

You could put several cities on different religions.
The actual "religioning" process could go straight forward, like it is now, or it could work parallel to the city/cities production, in such a way that you can build units/buildings, at the same time as you're trying to acquire the religion.

The cities that took part in the researching of the religion would then automaticly acquire the new religion upon completion. With a minimum number of turns to qualify as being a co-"religioning" city.

The main thought is, that a religion has to grow before it actually becomes one.
Like a seed that needs spiritual water, to flurish into the teachings of a religious philosophy.

None of the religions are "technologies" so why are they in the tech tree? Just because you "discover" Monotheism, doesn't mean you automatically found Judaism. I totally agree that you should found them a different way.

That's my point exactly. Why should you include something that isn't a tech in a tech tree.
Seems more like an easy way to include religion into it.

Perhaps I should alter the titel into : Why should the religions be kept in the tech tree ?
And at least I'd know why all those no voters are so opposed to it.

But since it does need changing, it seems like the right time to suggest further improvements, to the whole concept.
Choosing what city in your empire has created the new religion perhaps ?

No, the Holy City should still be random. Whatever founds the religion should remain either empire-based or city-based but not easily controlled (I'd reccomend the former, possibly with a bit of the latter to decide the founding city once the former is achieved).

Well, you could keep it random, and just say that it should be in one of the cities that were "religioning" it.
Or you could could put just one city on the job, and then you're rather sure it'll come in there.

Ofcourse it could be left totaly random, but it would be a loss to reason.
Perhaps if there where a limit of one or two founding religious monuments ...
Although Jeruzalem has got 3 in real life : Islam, Judaïsm, Christianity

Pitboss said:

You could put several cities on different religions.
The actual "religioning" process could go straight forward, like it is now, or it could work parallel to the city/cities production, in such a way that you can build units/buildings, at the same time as you're trying to acquire the religion.

Click to expand...

Islam and christianity almost have no point in this game unless you miss monotheism, hinduism, conficuism and buddhism at the start of the game, you need so much for those 2 religons and there are no benefits for them either. I agree with you for adding benefits to religons.

They actually still do have a point, since they add some extra culture and happiness.
But they just seem to enter to game way to late to play a bigger role.
Don't forget Taoism btw.

That's why they should become available after one of the elder religions has been formed. And since the civ leaders have certain traits they might have more of a religious preference based on their leader traits. But without disallowing any religious - leader traits combination.

I'm with Pitboss and feel exactly the same way and expressed it a while back:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=175239

Just a word of encouragement so that you know you're not alone ;-)

Cheers,
Zenithilos

Hehe, thanks
It's nice to hear that other people think it should be adapted too.

I can understand that people like it the way it is now, because they don't think of the possibilities that are ahead.
But I never understood why people in general are never to enthousiastic to change certain things, unless they're going realy badly.

On the other hand, ... whining doesn't get you to far either, so convincing people by solid arguments, that don't diminish the gameplay of civ should be the way to go.
That's why I'ld to see some disagreeing people replying to this thread as well.

Cheers,
Pitboss