Lust for Gold

mice

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Strategy competition to see who can get the most shrine gold per turn by 1600 AD.

Leader : Isabella
Build : Vanilla , so uploading/opening saves is easier, and to not exclude anyone
Difficulty : Prince
Map : Continents
Size : Standard
Speed : Normal

If you feel so inclined, play from this start until 1600 AD. The winner is he/she who has the most shrine gold per turn, with any number of religions/shrines.

Here's the start

Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg



A classic Spain on a crab. Isabella with crabs ?


Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg



Strategies? Probably can't get both Buddhism and Hinduism. Stonehenge, Oracle, prophets , mid-game religions.... theocracy... optics..
could be a good building game with a bit of conquering where necessary.

Feel free to post your strat ideas, and thoughts on the start. Sometime this week, post your save with your shrinegold/turn result at 1600. Put any big spoilers in a spoiler tab

Good luck!
 
"Love makes the world go 'round... Love of gold."
- Heist

I hope I have time to give it a shot during the week. I'm also testing the Great Wall-Pyramids tactic with Gandhi, so this might be an interesting change from when I'm bored with those tests. :) And you know what? I've never played with Isabella. :grin: Now THAT sounded ten kinds of wrong. ;)
 
Just had a quick stab at this and I've got a few thoughts (put in a spoiler tag as it's a brief summary of the game)...

Spoiler :
It's perfectly possible, given this sort of start on Prince, to take the Cuban Isolationist approach and go for BudHinJewism in Madrid. Based on the assumption that you go workboat first and only work water tiles initially, and on the assumption that the AI tends to prefer Buddhism as an early religion, a research path of Meditation > Polytheism > Masonry > Monotheism is very likely to bag you all 3 early religions.

After that went well, however, I then got a bit carried away. I squeezed out a second city and built the Oracle to bag CoL and Confucianism, then popped the first prophet from Madrid for Theology and Christianity too, giving me 5 religions founded in my first two cities.

The main problems with this approach were that going for 5 religions instead of just 3 stunted early growth even more than usual and left the empire in an extremely weak and vulnerable state. Given that, the best idea seemed to be to allow the AI to invest hammers and time in founding plenty of other cities on the continent whilst I churned out missionaries to keep us one big, happy familiy all united under one true faith, and relied on the positive relationship modifier from religion to keep me safe. This was working pretty well until I built my second shrine, which took spread of one of the other religions out of my control, prompting one neighbour to convert and declare war on the same turn, which pretty well derailed things unfortunately.

On reflection, 5 religions definitely seemed like too many to shoot for. I'm used to playing on small maps due to having a PC that isn't quite powerful enough to run CIV and the increased continent size and city number meant that I was never going to be able to spread all of them everywhere by 1600 (especially as it gets progressively harder to squeeze subsequent religions into cities). I was also far too cavalier with my attitude to military. Normally I favour a bit of warring, but neglected that to my detriment. It would have been a much more sensible approach to let the AI invest hammers and time into founding cities and then liberate them with axes. After all, as far as shrine income's concerned it doesn't matter who actually owns the city.
 
I took a cut at this, with the additional handicap of treating it as a "one city challenge" of sorts.

Spoiler :

One city, 5 religions (Missed Judism deliberately, Christianity by 4 turns), 4 shrines: 24/15/14/6 = 59 gold for Shrine income.

Basic approach was Spain on a Lake to grab the cheap religions, then running priests to score Code of Laws and Civil Service. Took a GP break for an academy while working up the tree. Lost too much time working up towards Divine Right for no reason at all, then switched the city over to a production configuration and started spamming missionaries. Spent most of the game parked in Pacifism trying to squeeze the geepeeze.

Eventually, I put a settler on a galleon to start a spam factory on the other continent, but didn't get there in time for it to matter.

Failing to build the Oracle was a big mistake, both for the lost tech and for the free prophets. I also could have sped things up with more judicious tech whoring.

I may take another swing at this, without including Polytheism in the main run.

 
Hmm, second attempt wasn't a whole lot better

Spoiler :
63, with one additional conversion on the 1600 AD turn.

Closer, but I think the statistics are telling: 230 turns, and I only managed to build 57 missionaries, which must be part of the problem. There's room for about 25 cities on the continent, so I ought to be able to hit 75 in gold without Astronomy.

Skipping Hindu didn't help much here - Mansa grabbed that, Julie Judaism, Vicky eventually scored Islam. I managed to keep everybody except Mansa Buddist most of the opening, and when I finally cut over to the other continent, Asoka still didn't have a religion, so was able to convert him as well - although he wasn't willing to help on his own.

I've got a few ideas left to try for one more run
 
Is this net shrine gold (before modifiers for market, bank, wall street etc) or after modifiers?
 
do we have to play with the exact setup you gave us or can we play with a different ruler. i prefer spanish anyway. but i just thought i would ask
 
pigswill said:
Is this net shrine gold (before modifiers for market, bank, wall street etc) or after modifiers?

Opps, I didn't think about that. I just thought to look at the city screen figure. Shrine gold as seen next to the shrine name in the city screen
 
I give up....

Spoiler :

28+24+15 = 67 is the best I was able to manage 1CC (although this time I culture grabbed a second city. Since I wasn't willing to punt the three points, I kept it.

This run, I just focused on OrgRel and Drama, using the Oracle to pick up Alphabet and score some useful techs along the way. I managed to prevent holy war by converting Mansa in time. The other continent arrived with no religions - everything founded locally. Just not enough commerce to get things going though.
 
@Patagonia. I tried 4 religions and came unstuck.
Spoiler :
I got thumped by Victoria who was an era ahead of me. Ouch. I still have hope that I can take Mansa's Buddhist city before 1600, and I'll have to because everyone has converted to Buddhism.
 
Dude...why is everybody wasting time and resources founding religions? To get shrine-gold, all you have to do is control the holy-city by 1600AD.:mischief:
 
Founding religions is basically a matter of beelines and slingshots; depends on your strategy which techs you find useful; CoL for courthouses is popular; philosophy also potentially useful as prereq for liberalism and pacifism. Spreading religions gets more expensive but at the same time you get the loot to fund economy and keep research slider higher. Certainly pinching holy cities is a legitimate tactic (as long as the shrines are built, so may need a couple of Prophets stashed away just in case).
 
Hans Lemurson said:
Dude...why is everybody wasting time and resources founding religions? To get shrine-gold, all you have to do is control the holy-city by 1600AD.:mischief:


With this advice I tried for the fourth time. Build axes and catapults, founded Hinduism to keep all the religions on this continent if poss. Mansa founded Buddhism, and my plan was to storm his capital just before 1600 and reap all that shrine gold.
But...that frump Victoria declared war on me twice. The game became a homeland defense that was actually quite fun.

defenceMadrid.jpg


Mansa of course jumped on the bandwagon and sent stack of horse archers. I gave him Barcelona to go away, after just building the Heroic epic there.(note to self:Heroic epic cant defend).

After beating off Victoria I built up and declared on Mansa, sending a stack of axes and catapults deep into his territory. I was confident that the axes would do the job instead of waiting for maces . By-passing his other cities to attack the shrine city/capital they took some attacks from horse archers. On a hill outside the city the stack took attacks from defending catapults, and the axes were heavily damaged. I made the last attempt on the city with attacking catapults, because to attack with axes would have left only catapults to move into the city.The catapults were gettng 90% odds after the first two, and I took the city and moved in 4 sick axes.

Unfortunately, Mansa had only a measley 8 shrinegold/turn. With closed borders I had no way to increase this number.
:sad:

Bismark founded Judaism on the other continent and Asoka adopted it. Big shrine gold over there I bet.

Grand total at 1600... 24. 12 Hindu,4 confusian, 8 Buddhist.

Not even close to VoiceOfReason's 67.
 
The idea was that you conquer the world and as a side-effect of that, you will control many shrines. Or is this a 1-city-challenge or something? No...It can't be if you conquered the Buddhist Holy-city.

Looking at your screenshots...WHERE IN THE NAME OF HAPLOID ARE YOUR TERRAIN IMPROVEMENTS?? Did they seriously all get pillaged?:eek: And where is your Empire? Where is your MAP? Where are your gunpowder units?

You can't just sit on your ass the entire game and then expect to waltz off to a victory. The best way to be in control of an enemy's shrine by 1600AD is to conquer it in 600AD along with several neighbors, not pull a late-game anabasis with obsolete units to conquer a solitary city in the heart of a hostile empire.

But at any rate, since I've criticized your gameplay, it's my duty now to put my money where my mouth is and play the challenge.
 
I've also taken up the challenge. Got up to 200bc so far; just got taoism thru philosophy slingshot (religion#3). Time to take over the world.

In terms of founding/conquering religions. if you establish a religion the holy city is accessible. On a continents map several holy cities could end up on the other continent and its challenging to mount a major oceanic invasion by 1600ad.
 
Hans Lemurson said:
You can't just sit on your ass the entire game and then expect to waltz off to a victory. The best way to be in control of an enemy's shrine by 1600AD is to conquer it in 600AD along with several neighbors, not pull a late-game anabasis with obsolete units to conquer a solitary city in the heart of a hostile empire.

.

Ouch, but it's the only way I'll learn. The tile improvements were completely pillaged. When Victoria attacked for the second time I knew it was all over. I only attacked with outmoded units becasue it was my only shot at any shrine. Even though I built units from the word go, Vicky attacked. Same religion too. I dont know why. The power graph wasn't too different. Yeah it turned into a survival and then mad attack game. Not one of my best.

The number to beat is 67. Hard I think.
 
Meh, I think this is the only time i'm ever going to tell someone to stop focusing on warmongering-

If you have ANY diplomatic skill at all, you don't need to go to war, and yes, can essentially play a OCC with 3/4 religions stuck in there (i've gotten all 7 playing OCC) and spam missionaries all game. WHOSE cities has the religion is not important, what matters is that they have your religion(s).

But, as Hans so profoundly stated, let's put our money where our mouth is, and do this thing.
 
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