News: GOTM 10 Pre-game Discussion

GOTM 10: Qin Shi Huang

This game MUST be played in patch version 1.61. We will NOT accept any games played under any other patch versions, and you can't play it in warlords!

We also hope to release a HOF mod version of this game - to be confirmed in the next few days.



Game settings:
Civilization: China (Leader: Qin Shi Huang; Traits: Financial & Industrious)
Rivals: 6
Difficulty: Immortal
Map: Archepelago (snaky continents variant)
Mapsize: Standard
Climate: Temperate
Water level: Low
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: EPIC
Victory Conditions: all enabled

Qin Shi Huang:
Qin Shi Huang is Financial and Industrious; starting with agriculture and mining. Financial allows +1 commerce on any tile producing 2 or more. Industrious allows +50% wonder production, as well as double production speed of forges.

Unique unit: Cho-ko-nu:
The Cho-ko-nu replaces the crossbowman. It has strength of 6 and costs 90 hammers. The main benefits of the cho-ko-nu are 2 first strikes (one more than the standard crossbowman), and the fact that it does collaterol damage. Like the normal crossbowman, it has +50% vs melee units.

The starting screenshot is here:


Adventurer Class bonuses:
To be confirmed. Note that it will be substantial, to help with the increase in difficulty level


Challenger Class Equalisers:
To be confirmed.


Finally, for those of you concerned about the immortal difficulty level - we will start the first Warlords game on the 15th - this will be at a gentler difficulty level!

Settle in place, research Fishing, work Cows, build Warrior then Workboat? Seems right to get the fish going, then use the high food output for a quick worker for the cows.

P.S. This makes five consecutive GOTMs with mapsize Standard (ok) and water level Low (not my preference). I wish we could have higher water levels sometimes, for faster games (less territory).

Just a quick note to commend Ainwood on the settings - this is just the game I've been waiting for.

Firstoff, I'm glad we are playing Immortal - a real challenge, but archipelago and epic, plus chinese Quin with his financial trait and excellent versatile UU (collateral damage ho) should make this considerably easier than most of the games the computer will roll up for you.

Looking forward to a great learning experience.

DaviddesJ said:

Settle in place, research Fishing, work Cows, build Warrior then Workboat? Seems right to get the fish going, then use the high food output for a quick worker for the cows.

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Sounds about right I'd say. A healthy food surplus, combined with poprushing has been key in my few games on Immortal so far. Have yet to win one, but don't see how you can survive without the whip. So after fishing, bronze working would seem wise.

Considering this is archipelago, worker (or settler) first might also pay off, since you will likely have the island to yourself and can grow and expand without fear of getting clobbered early on. Have the worker build a mine, then use the shields to get out the workboat and warriors. With fish nearby, I find it pays to focus on shields first, as you will make up in growth once the boat is out.

Super-early workboat exploration also pays off in most archipelago games, since the AI doesn't do it and you can leverage your many partners when trading tech. Tech path further out would therefore be alphabet, via AH which you can use anyway.

ainwood said:

Huayna Capacis Financial and Industrious;

Click to expand...

Ctr+C Ctrl+V?

I'd prefer settling on the riverbank for the extra health. And with the financial trait having more riverbank tiles in range pays off also.

I'd probably move the warrior 1SE to the hill to get a better look to the east. It looks to me like there is a mountain range east. That would limit the workable tiles to the east. But I also want to see if there are any resources to the east.

Unless there is something juicy to the east justifying a move to the riverbank, I'm inclined to stay in place to ultimately be able to work the two fish and the cows for the food and do a lot of poprushing.

Wow, talk about a challenge. Wonder if this means GOTM9 was getting a higher proportion of victories than GOTM4, the last emperor level one, got?

Can anyone who's familiar with immortal games offer a few pointers on what differences between emperor and immortal you tend to find, for the benefit of those of us (like me) who've never attempted immortal before?

Moving the settler 2SW could definitely be right. Keep one fish and the cow, and good chance of picking up some other resource. I'd do this without thinking if it were a plains hill. But it's a blind guess; no way to get any useful information before deciding. (Unless the warrior on the hill reveals something, of course.)

Perhaps some kind of premonition, i'm playing a monarch game with Qin Shi, now.
In my civ career i've played 1 or 2 Immortal games, but with VERY good start position (edited in WB), with a sort of "miracle hill" (a plains hill with flood plains and gold), stone and marble in range. I was able to win, but not so easy.

I suppose i'll lose this time, but i'll try to do my best .

No doubt to start research fish, where to settle will depend from what the warrior will see from the hill.

The leader traits are the best for this level, perhaps with Mansa Musa, another of my favourite leaders.

karlis said:

Ctr+C Ctrl+V?

Click to expand...

Yeah - although at lest I fixed the financial trait descriptions.

Wow! The challenge we have been waiting for! Thank you ainwood!

BTW, it is a bit weird to nick Qin Shi Huang to Qin Shi. Shi stands for "first" in Chinese, Huang stands for "emperor", and Qin is the name of the dynasty. So Qin Shi Huang means "the first emperor of Qin", Chinese sometimes call him "Shi Huang" or "Shi Huang Ti"(means the first emperor, since he sorta invented the word for emperor in Chinese). However "Qin Shi" will be somewhat elusive in meaning.

Glad to see a step up in difficulty--should be an interesting game. I think I lean towards 2sw with the settler--I think big to get some river squares w/financial. I'm generally more willing than most I think to risk a turn or 2 to try and get a better spot

Lawrence said:

BTW, it is a bit weird to nick Qin Shi Huang to Qin Shi. Shi stands for "first" in Chinese, Huang stands for "emperor", and Qin is the name of the dynasty. So Qin Shi Huang means "the first emperor of Qin", Chinese sometimes call him "Shi Huang" or "Shi Huang Ti"(means the first emperor, since he sorta invented the word for emperor in Chinese). However "Qin Shi" will be somewhat elusive in meaning.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the learned pinpoint, but i think i'm just lazy .

Anyway it was good to learn something.

Man... Us lower end guys are sure going to get some learning experience. Luckily, I did NOT make the over the median score last month, and can atiill use the crutch!

Regardless. These games have done wonders for my play. And I thank the staff and the guys turning in the "lessons" every month. Huzzah! I lift a pint to you all!

Mastiff - Who actually did win last month... (And got a booby prize!)

I agree with Redbad- settle on the riverbank. How much food do you need? And how long do we wait until we can effectively utilize a 3-food-bonus site? The river would probably pay off sooner.

This game will certainly be interesting. I've never played Immortal before, and before playing the GOTM-games, I thought loading up such a game was pure madness. Perhaps it still is, but I hope to learn new things :-O

I'll aim for a domination victory, and try to be nice to as many AI as possible (until I backstab them of course), which means that I will not go for a religion (I agree with Jorunkuns post in these matters) and skip the Oracle. Happiness will be a major concern for me though...

I plan to research Fishing, Bronze Working, Animal Husbandry in that order, then go for alphabet. Productionwise I'll go for Warrior, Work Boat, Work Boat, Worker, Work Boat (for exploration).

I don't think there is any optimal sequence though. The worker can only build mines and farms from start, and will then be idle. Preferably the worker will be ready in time to first mine the hill, and then build the pasture (once AH is researched). The cow is very nice, but aiming for building the pasture as soon as possible is too costly.

Researching B.W. from start is not preferable either, since there's no real advantage of whipping too small cities. Fishing is not really optimal to research early either since the forest is better to work until work boat is ready (same 2 food, 1 hammer instead of 3 commerce).

The immense food production will enable us to whip two population each time, so both the barracks and the library will be painted red...

I don't plan to do a worker theft, unless the AI is very close. I'll try to be nice and aquire the alphabet as soon as possible, then go for Metal Casting and the Colossus. As far as I'm concerned, research is top priority, more important than crippling the nearest neighbor.

As soon as the warrior steps to the south-east, everything may change though ;-)

I'm also inclined to move the settler SE and settle beside the fresh water river.
Losing one fish will hurt, but I think the health bonus will be needed more. My
guess is we are alone on this island. Sailing and Masonry are not normally
techs I go for early in the game, but in this case we may need galleys. I have
also (recently anyway) gotten away from wonder building in favor of a stronger
early military. I just pick one - usually the Great Library, but maybe I'll try
the Great Lighthouse in this one to do something different.

Yikes - Going adventurer for sure. Didn't get around to finishing Gotm9, or really any of the recent gotms for that matter. This one could and probably will finish me off much quicker.