RB23 - Alex the Decentral....

[Qwack]

Welcome to the sequel of RB22 - Huayana Capac the Despot.

Leader: Alexander of Greece
Map: Fractal - random climate and random sealevel
Difficulty: Emperor
Speed: Epic

Variant: Cannot ever change civics

Roster:
Qwack
TheRat
darelljs
Greyfox
Ozbenno

RB succesion game rules apply: http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/sgrules.html

Here is the settings we got:



Anyways, the start I rolled once again requires discussion on whether to move or not . Move our scout 2 SW onto the hill and heres what he reveals in the shadows:



Moving 2W onto the forest hill gives us pigs/stone and corn in our 21 tile radius and gives us more production than the current spot. But we lose spices and coast. I definately think we should move and pick up the pigs/corn/stone spot instead of the current spot. Thoughts?

[berserks01]

lurker's comment: I'd definitely move since it looks like some floodplains will also be in your BFC

[Mutineer]

Lurker comment.

In any other game I would considered to move. In this one I would not.

With your wariant you want as many shield that produced normally as posible.
In current position you have a lot of shield ties (Hills, forests) and enoght food to work them. If you move on hill you would loose a lot of potential shields production.

[ThERat]

hmm, not so easy to decide here....I like Muti's argument, but the other spot looks good too...

maybe settle on the spot and try get another city to grab those asap...

[FuRRie]

Good luck with the game, I enjoyed following RB22

[mike p]

Lurker says:

I'd move. The spices are nice as undeveloped tiles because they give 1f2h1c or 2f1h1c right off the bat. With Calendar, spices are nice, but not amazing and by the time you have calendar you'll already have built a city just north of the spices anyway. With the river you can get the same or better results as soon as you have mining and agriculture by mining the grassland hill (1f3h1c) or farming a plain along the river (2f1h1c).

Since there are no seafood resources in range, the only reason to found in place would be if you needed the extra commerce from the spices right off the bat to chase a religion, but that's not likely to happen since you don't start with Mysticism. You will much better off with your first city being able to work the pigs, stone, corn and a mine along the river. Much quicker settlers and workers will do a whole lot more to accelerate your production.

[GreyFox]

While I agree that production is more important in our variant than normal, I don't agree that moving 2W is losing us "a lot" of production. The two sites differ in only the coastal tiles, AFAICT.

But what is important is the initial turns. Settling on site, we can (A) work on the forested grassland by the river which gives a decent 2F1H1C, or (B) work on the 3F corn and start a worker build.

If, OTOH, we settle 2 W, we do not have any immediate high food tiles to work on. Its either 1F1H1C or 2F1C or 2F1H for the initial 15 turns until the border pops.

I am undecided whether to move not to move ... ...

@mike: I am confused .. you say spice are good, but you say "I'd move".

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[darrelljs]

I would move 2W. We'll have 3 hills and stone inside the city radius, and two food resources to boot. Giving up the Coast sucks, but we're not losing any immediately useful resources, just one turn. Besides, Stone inside the city radius with a Philosophical leader? That can be pretty powerful. Oh wait

Happiness looks like a big concern, but I don't see chasing an early religion as a good move without Mysticism. Fishing and Hunting are useless techs, I guess we should start on Agriculture. Then either Mining -> Masonry or Animal Husbandry next. Bronze Working should also be a priority of course. Scout first or Worker first?

Darrell

[Qwack]

The 2/1/1 tile from the getgo is the only reason I would not move. I think We are gaining production by moving, in the form of the monster 1/4 stone tile. Wouldnt we need to chop those spice forests eventually anyways? And farmed plains are the same as grassland forest.

The one thing the might happen is we lose horses by moving :P. Remember last game, we moved 1N and ended up founded on top of the copper, theres a decent chance the grassland in the south houses either horses or iron. If we do found 2W, I think the best initial move would be worker first because we dont even have a 2 food tile to work from the start, and working a 1/2 tile is just not optimal if we dont go worker first(IMO). we would have to wait 8 turns for a better tile :P.

Tech path I would say... agriculture -> mining -> AH -> BW or Masonry if we move, another possibility is going AH first, and putting agriculture where AH is currently. Animal husb is more expensive but can save us archery if we find horses near. If we dont move, Agriculture -> mining -> BW. Ill let Ozbenno post something before I play the turns.. Ofcourse we would need to stick archery in there somewhere if we dont get any resources nearby..

[mike p]

Spice is good. It gives extra commerce right off the bat. It's one of the best unimproved starting tiles. But you can't improve it until Calendar.

The pigs and the stone will help with initial expansion and possible to chase Stonehenge. I think that you'll be better of in the medium term moving west to settle because that site will help you expand faster.

The spice will make you better off until you get a worker and some worker techs, but it's not as strong as a site for your initial city in my opinion because especially early while the happiness cap is low you really need to maximize your tile yield, and masonry, husbandry and agriculture will come along a lot quicker than Calendar.

[Ozbenno]

Its a tough call whether to move or not. I'm slightly leaning towards not moving and using a second city to grab those resources but happy which ever way it goes.

If we don't move Agriculture --> BW. If we do maybe mining/BW or AH first?

I'm out of town until Thursday night so see y'all then.

[Dicorion]

Lurker´s comment:

2W will also make your capital less vulnerable against any early aggression. Moreover your UU gets starting bonus of being on the hill, so you can use it well!
As you can see I am keen on strong city locations and good defence

BTW good luck 2U all

[mihau]

Moving 2W would net U stone for PYRAMIDS

[Atlas]

2W

The reason is because you will need 2 additional cities to grab the stone and pigs later. 2 more cites is of course $ and you want those cities placed as well as possible, not stuck somewhere just to grab pigs or stone. I think it unlikely that both of those 2 additional cities would allow of ideal placement and still get your resources. Settling 2 tiles of the ocean is not serious when there is not visible resource.

[Akuma-sama]

Lurker's comments
Atlas has a good point; no sea ressources and no lakes means that at most, those sea tiles will be 2f2c tiles, and remain that way for a looong time. It also nabs you pigs and corn, perfect for whipping when you'll get sla--
oh wait.

Should prove to be an interesting read on the importance of proper civic usage...

[Qwack]

Was kinda busy today. But ill play tommorow for sure.

[Qwack]

Ok, played 30 turns...

I decided to move and set research to agriculture first. Our scout moves to the hut and pops another scout... Scout #2 moves north headed for hut which was revealed by founding athens

Next turn, Scout #2 moves to hut #2 and pops mining. Sweeeet!



3760, we find Victoria towards the west. And our scout meets his doom 2 turns later from a bear.. 3520, Kublai's scout finds our capital. He came from jungle in the north. Buddhism FIADL in 3370. After Agriculture, I set research to animal husbandry. Which comes in 3070 BC. We have no horses nearby.

So anyways, our worker is currently farming the corn. In terms of moving forward, AI is extremely far away, so I think a good option here might be to go the safe route and archery next, build stonehenge in capital, and expand peacefully until victoria starts getting closer. We have some pretty good locations near our capital and alot of hills for production, although food is a bit of a concern atm until we can chain irrigation. Heres the land around us, anyone want to make a dotmap? Im feeling somewhat lazy .

Our island looks quite big, although this is low sea level and we have only met 2 AI's so far. Victoria is near those 2 silks in the west..



And the save:

[GreyFox]

Woosh, there are some pretty good sites. We need to settler west quickly to block off the south. All those gold and silver ...

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[ThERat]

agree we should settle SW next to secure the horse/incense/gold there to block off the south for us to keep

Silver and gold will give us the much needed happiness...
do we have mansonry yet? We need that for the stone, so I prefer to get masonry first before archery...

[ThERat]

came home too late and don't want to rush the turnset, will play tomorrow...maybe someone can come up with a dotmap