Kael has asked me to update the civ strategy tags from my old Manual thread into 0.16. I'll do my best with it, but as I'm just one person and don't actually get to play FfH very often, I thought I'd ask you folks to suggest your best civ-specific tips for the best coverage. Do Bannor have a neat synergy with the Ashen Veil? What is the best way of playing the Malakim? Have you just the sneakiest strategy ever for abusing the Kuriotate Settlements? Post it all here, and I'll pick the best parts for inclusion into the "Dawn of Man" strategy texts.
Post your favorite civ-specific strategies here
- Thread starter Xuenay
- Start date
Sureshot
Goddess
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2006
- Messages
- 3,771
Well for Bannor, I find an early grab of Runes then Bronzeworking then Festivals can get you the money to maintain a decent sized army (Guardsmen, their Unique Unit for Axemen, will help lower city maintenance costs as well) and large empire, not dependent on peaceful relations. Once the empire is solidified you can usually pump out commerce enough to do a quick founding of the Order. Another good method is to get mysticism followed by education, and if you're lucky you can be the first to get writing and grab philosophy or code of laws with the free tech, and then work your way to an early founding of the Order.
The Khazad are a slow growing civ, you want to make certain that your gold reserves are able to take another city without your vaults being empty. As such they are a good choice for a turtle style of game play. Make a beeline to Way of the Earthmother for Runes, education for the cottages, festivals for markets. After you have your money making trinity up and running you should be able to be running at 90-100% science and still be making at least a little profit. Always be making a profit
The key to success with the Khazad is your vaults, overflowing vaults will give you +25% Great People, +3 Happy, and +40% Hammers per city while empty vaults will give you -2 Happy per city. The formula for your vaults is amount of gold divided by the number of cities. (thank you FFH wikipedia)
* 000-049 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Empty): -2 Happy
* 050-099 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Low): -1 Happy
* 100-149 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault: No effect
* 150-199 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Stocked): +1 Happy
* 200-299 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Abundant): +10% Hammers, +2 Happy
* 300-499 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Full): +25% Hammers, +2 Happy
* 500 or more Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Overflowing): +25% Great People, +3 Happy, +40% Hammers
This has the downside of making the Khazad player naturally unwilling to spend gold to hurry production in a city, since rushing in one city can mean a loss of production in _all_ cities. To conteract this you have to have a pretty good idea of how much money you can spend without lowering your vault level.
Your biggest advantage is production. Your cities can get a bonus of up to 115% production with overflowing vaults, a machine shop, and a dwarven smithy with iron, copper, and mithril. If your opponents make the mistake of letting you get past your somewhat weak opening game then you will be able to crush them in the mid to late game with the amount of troops that you can pump out.
Your biggest weaknesses are magic and the lack of the archery line for cheap city defense.
The key to success with the Khazad is your vaults, overflowing vaults will give you +25% Great People, +3 Happy, and +40% Hammers per city while empty vaults will give you -2 Happy per city. The formula for your vaults is amount of gold divided by the number of cities. (thank you FFH wikipedia)
* 000-049 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Empty): -2 Happy
* 050-099 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Low): -1 Happy
* 100-149 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault: No effect
* 150-199 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Stocked): +1 Happy
* 200-299 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Abundant): +10% Hammers, +2 Happy
* 300-499 Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Full): +25% Hammers, +2 Happy
* 500 or more Gold in treasury per city: Dwarven Vault (Overflowing): +25% Great People, +3 Happy, +40% Hammers
This has the downside of making the Khazad player naturally unwilling to spend gold to hurry production in a city, since rushing in one city can mean a loss of production in _all_ cities. To conteract this you have to have a pretty good idea of how much money you can spend without lowering your vault level.
Your biggest advantage is production. Your cities can get a bonus of up to 115% production with overflowing vaults, a machine shop, and a dwarven smithy with iron, copper, and mithril. If your opponents make the mistake of letting you get past your somewhat weak opening game then you will be able to crush them in the mid to late game with the amount of troops that you can pump out.
Your biggest weaknesses are magic and the lack of the archery line for cheap city defense.
Chandrasekhar
Determined
I believe I left a short paragraph in the wiki under the Malakim. Will that be satisfactory, or should I expand it?
Hypnotoad
Prince
I just started trying to play the Khazad -- boy it is hard to expand with them! Interesting challenge. How about this for the Calabim (expanding on what you had):
Calabim:
You wont get vampire units until the midgame. With Code of Laws you can build Governors Manors and then, with Feudalism, you can build vampires in cities that have Governors Manors. Nonetheless, some special abilities give the Calabim a strong start. You can build a breading pit to help your cities grow quickly. You capital also starts with a Vampire Governor, which gives you a boost in your capital from the very beginning.
Vampires can feed on your population to gain experience or on other units in order to heal. So you may want to set up some cities that grow extremely quickly (or would, if you werent eating them just as quickly). Since you are creating large populations anyway, this Civ works well with the Octopus Overlords and Ashen Veil, since these religions allow you to sacrifice population to finish production.
Vampires also have access to body and death magic, so you should try to create a death node as quickly as possible (your palace starts with body mana but not death).
Calabim:
You wont get vampire units until the midgame. With Code of Laws you can build Governors Manors and then, with Feudalism, you can build vampires in cities that have Governors Manors. Nonetheless, some special abilities give the Calabim a strong start. You can build a breading pit to help your cities grow quickly. You capital also starts with a Vampire Governor, which gives you a boost in your capital from the very beginning.
Vampires can feed on your population to gain experience or on other units in order to heal. So you may want to set up some cities that grow extremely quickly (or would, if you werent eating them just as quickly). Since you are creating large populations anyway, this Civ works well with the Octopus Overlords and Ashen Veil, since these religions allow you to sacrifice population to finish production.
Vampires also have access to body and death magic, so you should try to create a death node as quickly as possible (your palace starts with body mana but not death).
Worth to mention on Calabim is also about the Moroi.
The Moroi replaces Axemen, and have the same stats but come with a self-cast version of Burning Blood. Moroi can alos be granted Vampirism at level 4, instead of level 6 that most units have to have to be granted Vampirism. So it can be a good strategy to mass produce Moroi, while having a fewer amount of well experienced Vampires to lead the pack. Grant Vampirism to all level 4+ Moroi.
A unit with Vampirism can eat other units for health, it can feast on population for experience, and it gets +10% Strenght and +x% extra heal in all territories.
The Moroi replaces Axemen, and have the same stats but come with a self-cast version of Burning Blood. Moroi can alos be granted Vampirism at level 4, instead of level 6 that most units have to have to be granted Vampirism. So it can be a good strategy to mass produce Moroi, while having a fewer amount of well experienced Vampires to lead the pack. Grant Vampirism to all level 4+ Moroi.
A unit with Vampirism can eat other units for health, it can feast on population for experience, and it gets +10% Strenght and +x% extra heal in all territories.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
I'm pretty sure that the vampire's spells don't depends on your mana, so you should build other nodes for your mages, you'll get death for free.
slithy
Chieftain
Doviello:
The Doviello don't get many buildings, and are poor tech racers. Therefore, the best strategy is to keep your opponents weak right from the beginning - you should ignore religions and head for Bronze Working, only filling in low cost builder techs as necessary to keep your cities growing. You should also look for opportunities to take weakly held enemy cities while still in the very early game, either to raze (usually) or to add to your empire (if they are in very good locations that are easy to defend).
Generally, I will create a small core of high-production cities and then develop them, rather than expanding. I will try to found Pact of the Nilhorn so that I can get the Giants, to use as siege machines. Other than that, I'll only create Markets and Courthouses - everything is subordinated to military production.
The idea is, let your opponents do the hard work of founding cities, religions and the like - you will take what you need over the corpses of their troops. You need no fancy Civics - go cheap cheap cheap as otherwise maintenance costs will cripple you. You need no Adepts or Priests. What you need is melee units, and plenty of them.
Once I have Bronze Working I will have one of two choices:
If I have Copper in my borders, hook it up and start cranking out Doviello Axemen in every city. (Because you do not need a Training Yard to create them, all your cities can join in the fun right away).
If I don't have Copper, I need to get it as expediently as possible. I start building hordes of whatever my best unit might be (usually Hunters) and take it.
After Copper is hooked up, almost constant warfare is the theme. I attack the most powerful enemy civ first, and use units up almost constantly - your economy is weak, so it is better to fling your units into the fray, rather than nurse them up to high level. Dead units cost no maintenance
I will attack at low odds, if I am reasonably certain my second attacker will finish off the enemy - not to say you should be reckless, but your first concern should be killing the enemy, not protecting your own.
Once you have taken 1 city from your enemy, decide if you want to raze it or keep it (usually raze). I generally raze about 2-3 cities for each one I keep - there is a great danger in over-extending yourself, so you want to grow slowly, and keep your opponents growing even slower.
You want to head to Trade now so that you can demand techs from your defeated foes. As soon as one war is done, start another with the next strongest opponent. Don't let the AI sit and build its military strength - you want to have it so that even if 2 or 3 of them gang up on you, they do not have the offensive forces to threaten you with defeat. Once some of your units have survived a few battles and gotten powerful, set up a strong reserve near the centre of your kingdom that you can use to kill pillagers - promote these units up a few levels, then rotate them out and use them as mop-up troops behind your hordes of fodder.
Sometimes there will be a weak Evil civ you can induce to assist you in your wars - do so, but don't neglect the opportunity to stab them in the back if they have something you need, or if you're just feeling frisky. Make sure to demand tribute whenever you can - check every 10 turns or so to see what the other civs will give you.
By the early mid-game you should have an empire at least twice as big (more likely triple the size) as your nearest opponent. By demanding techs, you should be still in the middle of the pack as far as science goes. Now head to Iron Working, and use your Battlemasters to conquer everyone - just keep pushing them out and out and out, always attacking, isolating one opponent at a time if you can. Get siege weapons and build the War Machine last, and use it to finish off whoever is still alive, although by this time you are usually so far ahead you can afford just to overwhelm people with stacks of veteran killers.
The key is that you must never stop warring - if you are at peace for more than the 4 to 6 turns it takes to redeploy your armies for another offensive, you are not being aggressive enough. You want to win by domination by no later than the late middle game, before your rivals completely outstrip you technologically.
In summary, play them as the barbarians they are, and you will be rewarded. If you don't, you will be marginalized and beaten.
The Doviello don't get many buildings, and are poor tech racers. Therefore, the best strategy is to keep your opponents weak right from the beginning - you should ignore religions and head for Bronze Working, only filling in low cost builder techs as necessary to keep your cities growing. You should also look for opportunities to take weakly held enemy cities while still in the very early game, either to raze (usually) or to add to your empire (if they are in very good locations that are easy to defend).
Generally, I will create a small core of high-production cities and then develop them, rather than expanding. I will try to found Pact of the Nilhorn so that I can get the Giants, to use as siege machines. Other than that, I'll only create Markets and Courthouses - everything is subordinated to military production.
The idea is, let your opponents do the hard work of founding cities, religions and the like - you will take what you need over the corpses of their troops. You need no fancy Civics - go cheap cheap cheap as otherwise maintenance costs will cripple you. You need no Adepts or Priests. What you need is melee units, and plenty of them.
Once I have Bronze Working I will have one of two choices:
If I have Copper in my borders, hook it up and start cranking out Doviello Axemen in every city. (Because you do not need a Training Yard to create them, all your cities can join in the fun right away).
If I don't have Copper, I need to get it as expediently as possible. I start building hordes of whatever my best unit might be (usually Hunters) and take it.
After Copper is hooked up, almost constant warfare is the theme. I attack the most powerful enemy civ first, and use units up almost constantly - your economy is weak, so it is better to fling your units into the fray, rather than nurse them up to high level. Dead units cost no maintenance
I will attack at low odds, if I am reasonably certain my second attacker will finish off the enemy - not to say you should be reckless, but your first concern should be killing the enemy, not protecting your own. Once you have taken 1 city from your enemy, decide if you want to raze it or keep it (usually raze). I generally raze about 2-3 cities for each one I keep - there is a great danger in over-extending yourself, so you want to grow slowly, and keep your opponents growing even slower.
You want to head to Trade now so that you can demand techs from your defeated foes. As soon as one war is done, start another with the next strongest opponent. Don't let the AI sit and build its military strength - you want to have it so that even if 2 or 3 of them gang up on you, they do not have the offensive forces to threaten you with defeat. Once some of your units have survived a few battles and gotten powerful, set up a strong reserve near the centre of your kingdom that you can use to kill pillagers - promote these units up a few levels, then rotate them out and use them as mop-up troops behind your hordes of fodder.
Sometimes there will be a weak Evil civ you can induce to assist you in your wars - do so, but don't neglect the opportunity to stab them in the back if they have something you need, or if you're just feeling frisky. Make sure to demand tribute whenever you can - check every 10 turns or so to see what the other civs will give you.
By the early mid-game you should have an empire at least twice as big (more likely triple the size) as your nearest opponent. By demanding techs, you should be still in the middle of the pack as far as science goes. Now head to Iron Working, and use your Battlemasters to conquer everyone - just keep pushing them out and out and out, always attacking, isolating one opponent at a time if you can. Get siege weapons and build the War Machine last, and use it to finish off whoever is still alive, although by this time you are usually so far ahead you can afford just to overwhelm people with stacks of veteran killers.
The key is that you must never stop warring - if you are at peace for more than the 4 to 6 turns it takes to redeploy your armies for another offensive, you are not being aggressive enough. You want to win by domination by no later than the late middle game, before your rivals completely outstrip you technologically.
In summary, play them as the barbarians they are, and you will be rewarded. If you don't, you will be marginalized and beaten.
Kael
Deity
There is some great information here. But Xuenay as you go through it look for general strengths/weaknesses and new features that you can mention at about a paragraph length. Anything more specific is pushing the the players to play a certain way, which defeats the point.
Chandrasekhar
Determined
I'll save the update for when .016 comes out.
Amurites:
1. Easy spell lv3 = Druid + Govannon.
Teach your druid death, body or chaos then upgrade it to lv 3.
2. Easy combat5 movement3 lv3 summon = Druid + wizard/conjurer + cave of ancestor.
Create Combat5 + SpellExtensionII using wizard/conjurer + cave of ancestor, then graft flesh with Druid.
3. Easy combat5 SpellExtensionII wizard/conjurer = wizard/conjurer + cave of ancestor.
Create Combat5 + spell you like using wizard/conjurer + cave of ancestor, promote another SpellExtensionII + MovementI + spell you like using wizard/conjurer + cave of ancestor, then graft flesh them.
4. Deathbow = Firebow + Govannon.
Teach your Firebow death then learn deathII
1. Easy spell lv3 = Druid + Govannon.
Teach your druid death, body or chaos then upgrade it to lv 3.
2. Easy combat5 movement3 lv3 summon = Druid + wizard/conjurer + cave of ancestor.
Create Combat5 + SpellExtensionII using wizard/conjurer + cave of ancestor, then graft flesh with Druid.
3. Easy combat5 SpellExtensionII wizard/conjurer = wizard/conjurer + cave of ancestor.
Create Combat5 + spell you like using wizard/conjurer + cave of ancestor, promote another SpellExtensionII + MovementI + spell you like using wizard/conjurer + cave of ancestor, then graft flesh them.
4. Deathbow = Firebow + Govannon.
Teach your Firebow death then learn deathII
Thanks to everyone who suggested strategies, I incorporated some of the stuff into the new strategy tags. A lot went unused since I needed to fit into a short space and couldn't be too specific. But advice from this thread did go in there.
Love
Deity
Well, i play on a low difficulty(chieftain(im a noooob))And with elfs but i think every one cand do my stategy, in the beginnning i have problems whith orthus and i go for writing, BUT do not dicover it, then i go for runes, when getted runes, i go for writing and use the free tech for arete and create bambur, the orthus slayer
Silverkiss
NekoChan
Well, its a good strategy but you won´t be able to do it on Prince+, you will miss or writing or the runes tech if you do this.
richieelias
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Messages
- 42
On even a medium diffculty if you dont make a beeline for Writing AND get a few free techs along that line from goody huts, it's likely that writing will get discovered by someone other than yourself.
At least thats how it is with Marathon speed.
At least thats how it is with Marathon speed.
Love
Deity
I play with normal...but marathon snt bad, you earn A bit in it, the units got the same move, anarchy is thesame and so on
Silverkiss
NekoChan
Ya I always miss writting, and need to go STRAIGH for a religion or ill miss it too...
Edit: I play on normal
Edit: I play on normal
You may want a death node, but it won't help your vampires; they start with Body I, Death II, Channeling I, Channeling II, and Sorcery regardless of your resources. The primary reason to get your first death mana is to allow your arcane units to gain Death I. Also note that Body II does not have the resource restriction that Body I has; Body II only requires (Sorcery or Octopus Overlords or Runes of Kilmorph) and Body I and Channeling II.Hypnotoad said:
This means that your Vampires are just as effective of spellcasters without mana as with mana.
