Europa Europa Deluxe: European Empires Mod 1525-1800

Europa Europa Deluxe: European Empires Mod 1453 - 1800
For Warlords 2.08

Intro
Well, due to its success and the constant requests for a Warlords version of EE3, I've decided to announce the following:

The production a Warlords version of EE3 (while also working slowly on the 19th century Europe mod).

Progress will be slow because I'm very busy right now, but, come December, production should speed up. This will be completed before the 19th century mod, because it actually requires less work.

Time Period
1453 - 1800
Note how this is different from the thread title

Civ List (24 civs)
Austria
Bohemia
Burgundy
Denmark
England
France
German Minors*
Hanse Leauge
Hungary
Italian Minors*
Lithuania
Netherlands
Ottoman Empire
Papal States
Poland
Portugal
Prussia
Russia
Russian Minors*
Scotland
Spain (it would be unified in 30 turns anyway)
Sweden
Switzerland (maybe replaced with Savoy?)
Venice

* Minor civs unplayable by player.

Map
I'll probably use a modified version of Arne's map again. It's standard sized, so it'll be faster with 24 civs.

Colonies
Will use the same colony and trade monopoly concept from EE3.

Tech Tree
Unique tech tree for the period. Ideas for tech are certainly welcome.

Dynasties
Changing historical leaders. Still unsure if possible or if it will be included.

Modding
Will probably use the CoreProject mod, once it comes out for 2.08.

Events
Spread of Protestantism. Spread of Calvinism. Unification of Brandenburg & Ducal Prussia. Revolt of the Netherlands. Suggestions welcome.

Religions
Catholicism
Protestantism
Orthodox
Islam
Reform
Religion spawing will be controlled by event so as to get better religious wars and spread than EE3. Not sure if I will use missionaries or not for religion spread...

Civics
Civics will be varied and some options will vary by nation. (e.g., Papal States will never be able to become secular, etc).

Suggestions on civ choice, techs, or anything else are certainly welcome (and needed).

How about vassal trading? I'm thinking specifically of Norways situation after the Napoleonic wars.

I've said it before, tell my friends, and will say it again: You're the best !

Are you a university professor ? Your love of history and accuracy is unmatched here at civ fanatics... you realize that...

Gonna have to have this development page my homepage now...notwithstanding the need to check the web more often for the completion of this amazing project...

I'm sitting here shaking my head...keep up the amazing work AG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ah, finnally the production of a great mod is coming to warlords soon. This is great news, since you are busy working on this, and you could get irritated if I ask the release date, so all i am going to say is to keep up the great work on production this wonder mod for warlords.

ArneHD said:

How about vassal trading? I'm thinking specifically of Norways situation after the Napoleonic wars.

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This will end before the Napoleonic wars.

Amazing Game said:

Are you a university professor ?

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Actually, in training. I'm glad you liked my past work. Hopefully this will be great as well.

darkedone02 said:

This is great news, since you are busy working on this, and you could get irritated if I ask the release date, so all i am going to say is to keep up the great work on production this wonder mod for warlords.

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That question doesn't irritate me... but my answer to it may irritate you: I don't know when it will be done .

Hm I rlike rather playing with Bohemia or Hungary than pupil german states, but its historical accurate and make more original...

However I dont see point of Poland and Lithuania, they were in personal unionin 1569-1795 era

REDY said:

Hm I rlike rather playing with Bohemia or Hungary than pupil german states, but its historical accurate and make more original...

However I dont see point of Poland and Lithuania, they were in personal unionin 1569-1795 era

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I am also flirting with the idea of bumping the date to 1450 (near the end of the 100 years war). I'd keep Spain and France unified for ease, make the minor German states just a single unplayable civ, and add in Bohemia & Hungary...

What do people think? I've got to think it over some more...

Sounds similar to my mod, roughly from the years 1350 to 1750.

Well done AG, great to see this fantastic mod being updated to Warlords. Just one thing, though, does this mean you didn't need my Fusion mod?

Aussie_Lurker.

Shqype said:

Sounds similar to my mod, roughly from the years 1350 to 1750.

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It is my understanding that your mod is more Eastern Europe.

Aussie_Lurker said:

Well done AG, great to see this fantastic mod being updated to Warlords. Just one thing, though, does this mean you didn't need my Fusion mod?

Aussie_Lurker.

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On the contrary... the 19th Century mod will use it straight up (although, it needs a 2.08 update). This (current thread mod) will use your work which is will all be included in the Core Project mod (or so I read from that thread). Thanks again for your help .

No problemo AG. As I said before, doing this has been fantastic practice. You can read and hear all about C++ modification but, until you really do it, it don't really mean a thing . As soon as I have released all of my 2.08 updates-and sent the modified C++ files to Impaler-I am gonna start work on allowing trade to modify commerces. This is a massive oversight on the part of Firaxis IMO.

Aussie_Lurker.

Aussie_Lurker said:

As soon as I have released all of my 2.08 updates-and sent the modified C++ files to Impaler-I am gonna start work on allowing trade to modify commerces. This is a massive oversight on the part of Firaxis IMO.

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That would definitely be a nice thing as well... trade routes would mean so much more.

I know Switerland was famous for it's mercenary pikemen but not necessarily for their culture or great leaders. I would be more in favor of Savoy as a playable civ in that region. Also, for the sake of playabliy the many German states should be combined to just two or three. What would a European mod be without the rise of Prussia? Italy was just as fractured so Venice, Savoy, Papal States and Naples would do. I like that you are thinking about add Hungary or Bohemia. That part of the map generally seems to be empty. What if they became vassles of Austria or were conquered by the Ottomans. Good historical stuff!

About maps. I think with the latest Warlords patch huge maps are working much better. I haven't had any troubles since updating.

As to units. The Cho-Ko-Nu could serve as Condottieri as UU's for the Italian civs, some kind of upgraded pikeman as Swiss mercenies for the Netherlands. Were you thinking of giving the Spanish the Tercio for a UU instead of Conquistadors? If so maybe the Swedes should have the Musketeer to model their more mobile shot and pike units dominance over the slow moving tercios. France could have an upgraded Grenadier. I've always had a problem with longbowman being a universal unit in Civ4. Perhaps you could fix that. The Austians a Hussar and the Prussians the Fussilier. Maybe some of the minor but playable states don't get a UU thus they would more likely get swallowed up by their more powerful neighbors as they were historically.

Just my thoughts. I'll play you mod no matter what you do anyways. Can't wait!

I like many of your ideas, danbenbak, thank you! I'm not sure how I could fit Savoy in, unless I dropped Switzerland, as you point out... actually I may do that.

Here's the civ list for a 1450-1800 time range. I like this a lot better (the map looks less sparse and things are more interesting with bigger civs instead of 6-8 minor german/italian states), so I'll probably end up doing with this in the end... suggestions, comments?

Austria
Bohemia
Burgundy
Denmark
England
France
German Minors*
Hanse Leauge
Hungary
Italian Minors*
Lithuania
Netherlands
Ottoman Empire
Papal States
Poland
Portugal
Prussia
Russia
Russian Minors*
Scotland
Spain (it would be unified in 30 turns anyway)
Sweden
Switzerland (maybe replaced with Savoy?)
Venice

* The minors would probably be unplayable by human players... they'd be pretty weak, too (getting bad civics).

The 1450-1800 sounds like a great idea to me, Bohemia (to me) is necessary, not just because I consider myself a bit Bohemian in style, it provides me a good city to rush when Prussia.

I must admit, I have no idea what the Hanse Leauge is.

Will minor alterations be made to your (IMO) awesome civics or will they largely remain the same?

The Dynasties option sounds interesting, however I admit I am not familiar with the SDK that would allow it, so I suggest you go with the easiest option and possibly add it after the mod is released.

Also, how would Barbarians be handeled? It is my opinion that they should be minimal, if put in at all.

On the Missionary issue, maybe random spawnings would be preferable to straight natural spread or only using missionaries, so a mixed economy of religious trade would be better, because while the cultural spread of a faith is often random, it can be deliberate, such as the efforts to convert people in the land of milk and honey.

One way or another I look forward to this mod.

(Also, the idea of a professer assigning an hour or two of his own mod as homework sounds quite amusing, if ficticious)

Leif,

Random spawning of missionaries may be good... I'll have to test that. As you suggest, the dynasties thing will be done after the release (unless I figure out how to easily do it).

Leif said:

The 1450-1800 sounds like a great idea to me, Bohemia (to me) is necessary, not just because I consider myself a bit Bohemian in style, it provides me a good city to rush when Prussia.

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Every civ needs a whipping boy.

Leif said:

I must admit, I have no idea what the Hanse Leauge is.

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The Hanseatic Leauge was a leauge of quasi-independent and independent trading cities on the Baltic (e.g. Lubeck, Visby, Hamburg, Dorpat, Tallin, Bremen, etc).... by 1450 they were in decline (to be surpassed by traders in Holland and England).

Leif said:

Will minor alterations be made to your (IMO) awesome civics or will they largely remain the same?

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There will be historically applicable civics. I'm brainstorming that tonight. Expect heavy influence from the origional EE3.

Leif said:

Also, how would Barbarians be handeled? It is my opinion that they should be minimal, if put in at all.

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There won't be many at all... probably only in Grenada and N. Africa.

Some questions about techs. In none of the four versions of Civ have they ever had the bayonet as a tech that can be researched. IMO one of the most important evolutions in military tactics. Early muskets just weren't that reliable or acurate. Prior to the use of the bayonet, musket infantry had to be protected by armoured pikemen who were the main melee force. Even after the baynet was introduced linear tactics had to be developed (most notably by Frederick) to maximize the firepower of the musket. They essesially lined up at about 60 yards apart and blasted away at each other. The less disciplined force broke first but casualities were high on both sides. Small highly trained forces were the order of the day.

Metal casting also seems to be marginalized. Prior to monks developing the process to make church bells, artillery had to be cast into a single long tube and the barrel drilled out. Only iron was strong enough to withstand the pressure from long narrow barrels. Canon (even the name comes from a bell size) were heavy and expensive to make. The ability to cast a mold of bronze along with some improvements in metalurgy revolutionized tactics as artillery could actually be moved on the battle field during the battle!

With the growth of nationalism soon huge armies were possible and with more mobile, lighter and more standardized artillery along with the developement of the column, tactics changed again. Combined arms were more successful. I think that is what really attracts me to this time period as a Civ player. You start out at a time when Fuedalism is starting to crumble as the highly trained and expensive mounted knights are defeated by easy to train and relatively cheap to arm pikemen, crossbowmen and arquebuseirs. Banking is developed so mercenary troops become an option. Then these armies are trained and organized and tactics are developed (Gustavos Adolphus). He even reintroduces the use of cavalry as shock troops. The bayonet is developed and you're back the begining of my post.

I'm very interested in how all these developements will be handled in your mod. Will you be posting your tech tree any time soon?

Great news about civilizations included. May you publish link to map? In many scenarios its hard make Russia balanced with others superpowers. I think that Russia has to fight with some barbarians, or they will not have opponents...however I dont know what were Russian minors, but it may be good solution...

also Ireland - will be barbarian, empty or English?

@davbenbak
I like those ideas for techs, and hope to incorporate them into the tech tree. As for the tech tree itself, expect a rough draft in a week or two. Thanks for the suggestions .

@REDY
Russia will be tempered by the presence of the Russian Minors (at least for a while...). So far, the map I am using is Arne's Europe map that I used for EE3 (with modifications). See the link to EE3 in my signature for it.

I haven't thought about what to do with Ireland yet. I would tend to lean towards barbs (Ireland had to be conquered).

@Everyone
I updated the 1st post with the new time scale and civ list.

How about 1453 so that the Ottomans have Constantinople?