Abandoned Stars - Discussion and Poll Thread

Vote on whatever issues you want in each category...

  • -----Bait option. Ignore or vote as you like. :rolleyes: -----

    Votes: 7 23.3%
  • *Tech* - single stat

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • *Tech* - multiple fields

    Votes: 9 30.0%
  • *Tech* - branching tree

    Votes: 18 60.0%
  • ----If you like pressing options but you don't have an opinion, press this!---- :)

    Votes: 7 23.3%
  • Galaxy size - ~20 stars

    Votes: 3 10.0%
  • Galaxy size - 25-30 stars

    Votes: 7 23.3%
  • Galaxy size - 35-45 stars

    Votes: 8 26.7%
  • Galaxy size - 50-60 stars

    Votes: 11 36.7%
  • Galaxy size - LOTS of stars!

    Votes: 13 43.3%
  • :crazyeye: *** spacing option between the previous and next category ***

    Votes: 7 23.3%
  • Units - Numeric

    Votes: 13 43.3%
  • Units - Classic

    Votes: 15 50.0%
  • Elvis Presley lives again! :D

    Votes: 10 33.3%
  • Specialization - freeform, by stories only

    Votes: 11 36.7%
  • Specialization - +1 trait

    Votes: 2 6.7%
  • Specialization - +2 strengths / -1 weakness

    Votes: 5 16.7%
  • Specialization - choice of +1 or +2/-1

    Votes: 14 46.7%
  • Specialization - +2 traits

    Votes: 4 13.3%

  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .

Erik Mesoy

Core Tester / Intern
Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Messages
10,959
Location
Oslo, Norway
Template is found here, for easy reference.
Briefer from preview thread.
Erik Mesoy said:
I intend to do a space-based NES, reminiscent of Darwin420's Stars! which died early and had no clear successor as Darwin left for myspace. It will feature various groups of humans recolonizing the galaxy.

World of Magic will continue to stumble along in its current zombie-like fashion, updating whenever enough orders for an update accumulate.

An outline of the premise: FTL travel was discovered. In order for it not violate causality, shells of unobtainium were built around the star systems with habitable planets, and handwavium-powered gates transported people directly between one star system and the next. The unobtainium-enclosed superspheres had their own time regions separate from outside causality, and also protected against meteor strikes and the like.
Also, AI was discovered, grafts became common, as did cyborgs, and eventually the man-machine distinction blurred. Minds were discovered to be fully reproducible.
However, suddenly all great AIs, the most advanced cyborgs, every independent ship, a great number of cloned humans with memories restored from original bodies, simply vanished. Only a few groups of 'raw' humans remained, stumbling as though awakening from a dream, finding that the supports of their life had been taken away.
And a desire for expansion now lies in each of these groups. Some believe that they, too, will be raptured away if only they rediscover what the Machines knew. Some wish to conquer the galaxy in the absence of robotic peacekeepers and enforcers. Some are desperate for contact again. Some are adapting to the new way of things and plan to grow rich by trading information and artifacts to those less up to speed. Some are motivated by other ideologies.

The NES will take place on something resembling a grid of stars connected by handwavium gates. Each star will have any number of habitable planets nearby (with a minimum of one, obviously). Each planet will have some artifacts in the form of middle-order machinery deprived of function, as higher-order computers and the like were subsumed in the Event, and lower-order gross mechanical objects are still working.

Each player will play a unique group of humans. You may choose one general direction for your people, or two general strengths and one general flaw. Write a story when applying, and I'll give you exact bonuses and stats.

I'm still considering a good unit and combat system. Feel free to suggest one. I have drafts for three.

Planets will be statted by "re-industrialisation", meaning the degree to which you've got them colonised and working again. Each planet has a limited capacity in this way. Multiple groups can 'colonise' the same planet in this way.

There will also be a cradle-type hidden map: Each player starts out knowing his own star system and how many handwavium gates there are out of it. With the AIs gone from both gates and ships, most of the starting ship designs won't be able to move through the gates. Only a few ships, those run by diehard perfectionist nostalgists who did things "their own way", will be exploring in the beginning.
Just getting the poll up for the moment, will add in comments and history and stuff later. For reference to the last thread, humans only, no aliens, no cyborgs, any ideology is fine, as is playing a faction of genetically modified humans with an extra arm. :p

Tech
Option 1 - have a single stat, similar to Education, which generally improves various things.
Option 2 - have multiple fields, the way StDarNes was, such as Robotics and Construction.
Option 3 - have a branching tech tree.

Galaxy size
(The following assume around 6 players; the final size may scale depending on interest)
Option 1 - around 20 stars, which I think is the minimum required to avoid players warring as of turn 2 from space constraints.
Option 2 - 25-30 stars, empires will be fairly small.
Option 3 - 35-45 stars, large enough to explore, small enough to meet up.
Option 4 - 50-60 stars, meaning there will be exploration.
Option 5 - 70-80 stars, very large, for the players who like exploring and enough space so they don't have to go to war.

Units
Option 1 - Numeric, as described previously, simple amounts of fleets and armies that represent what you want
Option 2 - Classic, multiple "breakpoint" types of units which all factions use because they're optimal approximations to a type

(I removed the Modular option, as I realized it would be a nightmare to keep track of once players had more than about three ship designs each, not to mention that it was micromanaging at a ridiculous level; after all, you don't equip this tank with armor-piercing shells and that one with explosive shells and the third one with incendiary shells and the fourth through twentieth one with something else, not when you have hundreds of tanks.)

Specialization
"Freeform" means that no factions have inherent bonuses, but differentiate themselves by ideology and stories.
+1 means one positive trait, +2 means two traits like in Civ, +2/-1 means two strengths and one weakness.
 
Symphony D. asked for more history. Well, much of it involves HANDWAVIUM and is therefore classified. (read: do not question the plot devices of the moderator, for he is violent and not all that subtle.)

Start with a space elevator, asteroid belt mining and the like, leading to space-based VVVLAs that could identify planets with greater ease and determine their composition. Travel there was inevitable, albeit at slow speed. It accelerated as previously rare minerals from the asteroid belt were used to develop engines that could reliably maintain accelerations above 10ms¯² over several days. The first three colony pods, all headed to sectors near Earth, were mandated to enforce racial diversity. Due to shortages of volunteers from certain groups and strictly enforces quotas, early emigration was slow. It took off once the extremist religious group JEU (Jesus to the Ends of the Universe), covertly funded by multiple denominations probably including the Catholic Church, sent about 14000 people to the sixth nearest habitable star, which at that time was not yet planned for settlement. This fait accompli caused the UN to disintegrate as another dozen spaceships from independent parties raced to settle the four next most available planets. A few more made their way to the three originally settled planets, setting up bases on other continents.

About at this time, records become sketchy due to the development of yet the next generation of computers. The famous Handwavium Bubble technology which allowed FTL travel within limited areas of space was discovered a while later, unifying mankind to a degree, as the productive output of multiple planets (Earth, by this time, was inhabited by less than a billion people) was required to produce one bubble. Colonization came up again in a new wave of compromise, settling the stars known today.

The government prior to the Great Disappearance was in name a loose Imperial Republic governing all inhabited worlds, with a democratically elected Emperor wielding near-absolute power to prevent bureacratic turmoil. In practice, only about half the worlds had voter turnout above 30%. Most of the other worlds formed smaller, closer alliances and fought what were termed "civil wars of the Imperial Republic" time and again. Some were independent, paying only lip service to the Emperor, while two and threes considered themselves "provinces" with loyalties first to one another and second to the Republic, and one edge was completely independent.

It's hard to know which worlds were which, though, with the deletion of all AIs and the records they kept.

Each faction will start in its own "cradle", having a general idea of the Republic's layout from the monuments to it. You'll meet one another soon. Communication through handwavium gates is instantaneous, while travel takes a while to negotiate the correct protocols with the monstrous dinosaurs still manning the gates. As long as all stations along a line are manned, empires any distance from one another can communicate.
 
Tree, 35-45, Classic, and +1 or +2/-1. More later.
 
Erik said:
no cyborgs
Cyborg is a pretty widely defined term. What's the limit? ID implants? Mind-Machine Interface? Prosthetics? Or just plain humans with no chips or metal in them whatsoever?

Also, biotech is still in? You've got genetic engineering and cloning--what about things like longevity? Given the technology has little bearing on equipment, it would've have just disappeared if it ever came about. Are there people several hundreds of years old walking around?

On another note, what is the definition of "Low Level" and "Mid Level" machinery? I guess that would be settled by the Tech Tree, but still. Also, how much "flex" will there be in each Tech, if that option gets chosen? Anything we can imagine it being applied to, or some strict set of ideas?

Erik said:
(Earth, by this time, was inhabited by less than a billion people)
Sounds highly unlikely for logisticial reasons. Even if you have a system of instantaneous travel to other star systems in (relatively) near space, the point remains that it's still in space. Even with multiple space elevators running transport, it produces an extreme bottleneck on the amount of people and material that can get off planet. Even if each transport has as much capacity as say, an Airbus A380 (853 economy) it would take several days to both ascend and descend the elevator, and transports would need to be spaced out to perform loading and unloading.

Even with several elevators operating and high capacity / efficiency transports on them there is no way a cable system could outmatch, say, the airline system. At most, a multiple-cable system would be able to handle a few million people per year. Most population growth would be domestic from initial settlers - "emptying" Earth into other planets as solution for overpopulation is more or less a logistical impossiblilty without hundreds if not thousands of years of work. Kim Stanley Robinson made pretty good use of this fact in his Mars Trilogy.

Erik said:
As long as all stations along a line are manned, empires any distance from one another can communicate.
Sounds sort of like the Ansible is built in. As an aside, what's the state of "off-road" travel? Other questions to be asked later.

Dis said:
lots of stars (but with a lot of non productive systems, just to increase the amount of strategic thinking required)
I'd be willing to go with lots of stars presuming many of them were uninhabited. I was sort of under the impression that only habitable stars were going to be displayed (why link dead systems when travel is instantaneous?) but I suppose for mining and such there could be systems with only outposts or mostly barren or gas worlds. That would add something of a strategic depth.
 
Symphony D. said:
Cyborg is a pretty widely defined term. What's the limit? ID implants? Mind-Machine Interface? Prosthetics? Or just plain humans with no chips or metal in them whatsoever?
Anything that does part of your thinking "for" you. All MMIs, obviously, and most then-modern prosthetics, since they were plugged into your brain instead of your neural system. Such advanced limbs were regularly better than normal limbs in every way while not being unfamiliar. Basic prosthetics are still around, such as artificial hearts and the like.

Also, biotech is still in? You've got genetic engineering and cloning--what about things like longevity? Given the technology has little bearing on equipment, it would've have just disappeared if it ever came about. Are there people several hundreds of years old walking around?
Yes, but popular opinion turned against longevity and rejuvenation treatments early on, because they were seen as "the rich paying the poor to die for them". Add in some influential religious movements, and you get a self-fulfilling prophecy: Longevity never filtered down to the general classes, but became something owned mostly by the secret elite. A few scandals in which longevitous individuals went into near-cryonic hibernation and let their money grow at a faster rate than what the hibernation cost cemented the idea of longevity as yet another way for the upper crust of society to oppress the poor. It eventually began to spread once again, but backing up your mind (dualism's grave was pissed on a lot once this happened :p) and putting it into a clone with genetic modifications had more fringe benefits, and clones of that sort disappeared.

On another note, what is the definition of "Low Level" and "Mid Level" machinery? I guess that would be settled by the Tech Tree, but still.
The general rule is machines with independent thought or ones directly linked to same disappeared, as I mentioned above. This regressed technology further than one would expect, as it was easy to make something intelligent by sticking computers into it and then using evolutionary programming with human-designed starting points to let the object reconfigure itself. So you start with cheap crap that nobody bothered to stick a minicomputer in, and a lot of derelicts. Homing missiles - nope, steered by AI. Targeting systems - forget it. Lasers - lost focus and lens control. Expect to use guns in space. :crazyeye:

Also, how much "flex" will there be in each Tech, if that option gets chosen? Anything we can imagine it being applied to, or some strict set of ideas?
It looks like the consensus is headed for Tech Tree. Classic units, and specific units will become available with certain techs, or salvageable with other techs. Numeric units, and techs will boost your units or give you free increases from each planet. I'll try to avoid "filler" techs. Not sure what "flex" means, but there will be an option to specialize on one part of the tech tree.


Sounds highly unlikely for logisticial [sic] reasons. <snip> ..."emptying" Earth into other planets as solution for overpopulation is more or less a logistical impossiblilty without hundreds if not thousands of years of work. Kim Stanley Robinson made pretty good use of this fact in his Mars Trilogy.
Yes, it *did* take hundreds of years, with part of the population decline being also due to death by pollution, and that in turn leading to people having fewer children, both because the conditions were worsening and because it might then be easier to get off-world.


Sounds sort of like the Ansible is built in.
With a few hours' delay for propagating the signal within the system, of course.
As an aside, what's the state of "off-road" travel? Other questions to be asked later.
Not possible without projecting out and linking another unobtainium sphere, as it might otherwise violate causality. See Locality and related articles for how some FTL and some locality violations are possible under restrictions that do not violate causality. And to cover your related comment in the PM:
Symphony D. said:
<snip> ...while infrared waste from the shells would make them easily detectable by conventional astronomy...
Preservation of causality strikes again!


I'd be willing to go with lots of stars presuming many of them were uninhabited. I was sort of under the impression that only habitable stars were going to be displayed (why link dead systems when travel is instantaneous?) but I suppose for mining and such there could be systems with only outposts or mostly barren or gas worlds. That would add something of a strategic depth.
Mining systems are "inhabited" for purposes of this NES, as you send people there and get resources out. However, some systems will be "empty" initially in that you'll need advanced tech to reclaim them, and thus they will be of little strategic value until later. You could still salvage ships from them, though, if you have salvage tech.
 
I like specialization, but other than that I will only join if it'll be simple enough, with no technical mumbojumbo.
 
braching tree
50-60
classic
choice of +1 or +2/-1
 
Yes, it *did* take hundreds of years [...]
What is time from present? Not an exact date; those are never good in science fiction, but an approximate time.

[&#8230;] Lasers - lost focus and lens control.
Definitely don't need an AI to cleave someone in half with a laser beam. :p Sounds like most of this will be... exceptionally easy to reverse-engineer.

with part of the population decline being also due to death by pollution, and that in turn leading to people having fewer children, both because the conditions were worsening and because it might then be easier to get off-world.
If modern third-world nations are any indication (pick an African country), people in dire straights more often than not have far more children in order to combat high infant mortality rates. Of course this only perpetuates their poverty since there are insufficient resources to provide for everyone and lots of people die of starvation but it's still a common fact. Pollution and overcrowding also do nothing to stem population booms; one needs merely to look at either China or India for proof.

Even hundreds of years at a few million per year is enough for the remaining population to more than compensate for all those who leave via reproduction. The only way that the opposite will occur is if there is an extreme catastrophe (plague, nuclear war, so forth) that decimates the population base, or something unreasonably unrealistic comes into being (mass teleportation to orbit, say). The former instance would likely affect the rest somehow (interstellar war or outbreak) and the latter... well, doesn't fit in. Depending on when it is, most major planets should have several billions if not tens of billions. Minus whatever the Vanishing took, that still leaves hundreds of millions to billions, again depending (most likely the poor who couldn't afford extravagant modifications).

Not sure what "flex" means
As an example, I get say, Plasma Fusion technology. Theoretically I have some sort of Superconducting Magnet technology in order to get there. In addition to the nice benefit of fusion reactors, can I do something unique, such as combine my existing technologies to oh, say, modify rail guns into plasma cannons, or create magnetic bottle-rounds that hold plasma, and then shoot them at the enemy out of rail guns (thus neatly avoiding dissipation of plasma in atmosphere)? "Flex" is a measure, in my mind, of how a tech can be used for new and creative things by the players that the mod might not have thought of.

Not possible without projecting out and linking another unobtainium sphere, as it might otherwise violate causality.
Never said off-road had to be FTL. ;) I somehow rather doubt all of humanity just stayed inside these protective bubbles; there are always crazies.

Preservation of causality strikes again!
Even if they're within their own sort of space-time loops, by simply navigating the network it becomes a fairly simple matter of determining where the other side is. In fact, since the bulk of the human network is in effect isolated from the universe at large, the positioning of stars within the greater context of the galaxy is mostly irrelevant; everything that matters is inside the network and capable of being reached near instantaneously. Position no longer matters, only the number of nodes required to transit to the destination. The wiggling stars thing just doesn't serve much of a purpose, in my mind.
 
What is time from present? Not an exact date; those are never good in science fiction, but an approximate time.
Approximates. Gotcha. Space Elevator built 2040, asteroid mining gets serious around 2070, VVVLA 2090, planet catalogue 2100, launches take off 2120, JEU bursts onto the scene leaving 2180, arrives 2200, scramble begins shortly after the JEU takes off and lasts for near three hundred years until it's close to stable, AI discovered during that time, Unobtainium Bubbles and Handwavium gates appear fifty years after the colony scramble. Due to the large distances involved and the constant population transfer, agreements between any two world to get spheres and gates set up take a long time, and so it takes another two hundred years before they're seriously in use and the Imperial Republic is born.


If modern third-world nations are any indication (pick an African country), people in dire straights more often than not have far more children in order to combat high infant mortality rates.
That's Demographic Transition Phase One; China and India are in Phase Three where birth rates will begin sinking; this happens after Phase Five. A second factor involved is the further drop in birth rate as memory transplants to clones become common and the urge to have a family declines even more. A third factor is the mentality that spaceship space is at a premium and so it would be better to leave first and have children later, meaning that population growth happens mostly off-Earth.
(How long should I continue this argument before just saying "A wizard did it with handwavium!" ?)


Minus whatever the Vanishing took, that still leaves hundreds of millions to billions, again depending (most likely the poor who couldn't afford extravagant modifications).
The poor could afford modifications and whatever; getting a memory backup was regarded on a level with Social Security. Everyone who had used memory backups to transfer themselves to a new body, even government-issue crappy ones, disappeared. You're left with those who were too proud to do so; those whose ideology forbade it; those who didn't report in; those who were too young to have been transferred yet; those who were miners and the like in out-of-the-way areas; some few who got longevity treatments; etc... Feel free to describe your starting population however you like, really, but it really isn't that big.


"Flex" is a measure, in my mind, of how a tech can be used for new and creative things by the players that the mod might not have thought of.
Sure, do that. I'll try to make it easy.


Definitely don't need an AI to cleave someone in half with a laser beam. :p Sounds like most of this will be... exceptionally easy to reverse-engineer.
What you do need an AI for, or at least someone with exceptional hand-eye coordination (well, probably better to write a targeting program...) is focusing the beam for the distance to the enemy so it's effective, and aiming it so that you don't miss by that one-hundredth of a radian which translates into kilometers at the distance you're shooting. Also, there will probably be three main types of weapons: slugs, missiles and lasers, with the appropriate defense mechanisms being reinforced hulls, point defenses and shield generators. (Rock-paper-scissors.) It's easy enough to reverse-engineer the type you want, but harder to predict what the enemy will be throwing at you.


And as for the wiggling stars, the point was to be able to post a starmap and local maps of the players' surroundings, without everybody knowing immediately where everyone else is, as most of the gates will be unmanned.
 
Remember that the average player (at least me) might not want to play if you added too much useless mumbo jumbo scifi stuff, like AI's and cyborgs etc.

Yeah people are excited about branching tech trees now, but I think if it becomes complicated, many won't have the will or the time to understand how your extremely complicated system would work - including those who now vote for it. They don't understand their limits, or the limits of NESing and moding it.

Which brings me to my main point: making megalomanicly complicated rules will make the NES almost impossible to handle for both players and the mod.
 
Finmaster said:
Remember that the average player (at least me) might not want to play if you added too much useless mumbo jumbo scifi stuff, like AI's and cyborgs etc.
Which is part of the reason why I removed all that. Poof, no AIs, no cyborgs, no memory transfers to a clone of yourself, you're all the way back to using guns in space until you can get stuff working again.

Yeah people are excited about branching tech trees now, but I think if it becomes complicated, many won't have the will or the time to understand how your extremely complicated system would work - including those who now vote for it. They don't understand their limits, or the limits of NESing and moding it.
Darwin managed fields of tech well when that was new; his problem was displaying too much info on the map iirc; I'm going to use spreadsheets, and I will spend a week minimum hammering out the rules for this so I know they'll be simple; they may very well be one level simpler than the majority option in the vote.

Which brings me to my main point: making megalomanicly complicated rules will make the NES almost impossible to handle for both players and the mod.
I'll try to keep it away from the players. Promise. :)
 
branching tech tree.
allows for greater variety without causing the mod too much grief.
will also force players to focous on certain types of know how.

25-30 (voted) or 50-60 planets. dont mind which.

classic units.
players can rename thier types but they will still be "destroyer class" or whatever.
better to keep this simple.

freeform bonii
as all players are basically human, thus same, there shouldnt be any large scale bonous due to a planet you dropped on earlier.
were all up mudcreek :D

we should all have an agreed upon tech level, and maybe a couple of starting techs (diversify, baby, diversify!).
he how weaves a better yarn should get a bonous, but a minor one - as in "you find a derelict destroyer you can salvage" and NOT "you discover a manual for the star-bubble enabling you to research jumps across multiple bubbles"

the timeline specified seems reasonable.
humans can breed almost like rabbits (or rats) when conditions allow.
i presume all planets are rich fertile farm lands with lots of wildlife?

*******

i reserve for myself the faction forvever known ZIB (Zion In Babylon).
worship JAH and his hearty minions!
 
Status of the moment:
"Tech tree" has a 6-vote lead over the two others combined
The galaxy size is sure to be over 50
Classic units lead Numeric units by a mere 10%
And +2/-1 specialization is highly favored, possibly with +1 as another option.

So, time to begin discussing other issues which aren't really as pollable.

Trade: once you make contact with another faction and your ships can travel back and forth in one turn, both of you will start getting bonuses immediately. Any number of you who are in contact can agree to boycott another faction, losing them bonuses. Which brings me to contact: An uninhabited system requires one ship at each handwavium gate to keep contact running. An inhabited system is considered You can block messages going through a system you control, but not falsify or edit them, due to sender signatures. This can be useful for for example preventing two empires on either side of you from allying.
(I'll have to ask you to be honorable and not communicate by PM while censored, but the same goes for not allying with other players before the game starts, really...)

And another thing that goes for all factions: I've mostly settled on Abandoned Stars as the name for this NES, but I could just as well have chosen From the Ashes. This is important: Most of your society has disappeared. Initially, you won't be conquering like in a space novel. You'll be trying to compensate for the losses of things you took for granted.

I'm off to work on the tech tree now. Please tell me all the stuff you think should be on there, so I don't accidentally leave any branches off and have to reverse-engineer them in later.
 
Quick mockup of faction stats, drafty as it is. Lots of stuff missing, but that's OK, as I'm sure people will demand that I add important things.

The Unmartyred
Leader: Genmu Frepits/Erik Mesoy
Home system: Rad-One
Attributes: Religious (Changes to society less likely to result in bad effects due to stabilizing influence), Archivist (start with bonus ships, likely to find usable ships on new planets), Elitist (cannot learn techs from other factions)
Stability: 70%
Production: 125 (60 from Rad-One, 30 from Borhir, 20 from Itsig, 15 from trade with Black Marines)
Travel speed: 2 gates/turn
Known systems:
Rad-One (home system) producing 60/turn, maximum capacity 60, 4 Destroyers, 2 Carriers, 500 Fighters, 500 Tanks, 2000 Drones, 2000 Infantry
Borhir - producing 30/turn, maximum capacity 80, 2 Carriers, 200 Fighters, 8 Scouts, 200 Tanks
Itsig - producing 20/turn, maximum capacity 50, 1 Carrier, 100 Fighters, 2 Scouts, 300 Tanks
Ptic - not yet viably claimed (25/40 required), maximum capacity 50
Rilack - owned by Black Marines
Fennec - unclaimed​
Researched technologies:
Spoiler :
I've tried to make the names easily grokkable. They should be even easier with descriptions in a separate tech list. This will probably also be in "tree" form and more horizontal, saving such a long list.
  • Elerium Drives
  • Refined Elerium
  • Active Shipyards
  • Laser Bursts
  • Laser Aiming
  • Fast Slugs
  • Shaped Slugs
  • Guided Missiles
  • Seeker Missiles
  • Basic Shield
  • Heavy Shield
  • Power Shield
  • Reinforced Hull
  • Point Defenses
  • Shipboard Computers
  • Heavy Salvage
  • Deep Salvage
  • Protocol Recognition
  • Fighter Construction
  • Carrier Construction
  • Destroyer Construction
  • Active Shipyards
  • Trading Economics
  • Genetic Database
  • Medikit
  • Plague Virus


.

Another thing - feel free to start writing stories and signing up and designing your faction already.
 
Imperial Republican control had dragged on and on for centuries on Earth. It had been weak and inefficient, barely able to hold even de jure control over the vast interstellar breadth of mankind, let alone de facto control. Despite this, resistance to it was not easy. It had grown paranoid over the course of the endless rebellions of the outer fringes, and the experiences taught it to guard its home turf all the more jealously. Surveillance was everywhere, and security was strong. But so was resentment. It had no single source; the disaffected on Earth who were tired of the loss of the planet's power and strength; government officials and ex-military who were tired of the incompetence of the system; the peoples of Mercury, Venus, Mars (particularly these latter two, possessing terraformed worlds more than capable of holding vast numbers of humans), and the other worlds and moons of the Sol System, who had always had their own unique mixtures of cultures and had never quite embraced the pathetic Republic. The nearby Core systems, among the first settled, such as Alpha Centauri, had also developed unique expressions of humanity in the early years, and so too began to prepare. At first these efforts were uncoordinated and small, but as time passed, networking and interaction developed, and they grew.

The diversity of the groups was immense, and for all the problems this might (and did) produce, it also yielded a vast catalog of benefits. Supplies and weapon caches were stockpiled, from the simplest of personal weapons to advanced warmachines only slightly below the capabilities of the Republic itself. Small time piracy and theft, over time, accumulated a vast arsenal with scarce notice from the Republic. Records were plumbed, indexed, cross-referenced, and recorded. Old technologies were revitalized and deployed. The longevity treatment was rediscovered, and with the technology base the movement simply began to spread it among its members at no cost; each of them became a sort of living record of the movement and knowledge, ready to fight on until the ends of time. And last but not least, they disappeared off the information net by the thousands, the tens of thousands. All over the many worlds of the core they simply up and disappeared, as far as official records were concerned. They stripped out all but the most basic of implants if not all of them to avoid detection, and took up residence in the remote and wild areas of the many worlds. Near Maxwell Montes on Venus, the great caves of Jaburo in the Amazon and in vast underground bases in the Sahara, the Southern Polar wastes of Mars, on and on. The network eventually became as vast and inscrutable as the very government which it opposed, a whole universe unto itself. And the time to strike was nigh...

Then it happened. One day, no, one moment, the vast bulk of humanity and technology simply disappeared. Alarm klaxons rang out across a thousand worlds, what few were left, and everything was thrown into chaos. The reactions among the revolutionaries characterized those of any other person left alive or indeed, anyone who has undergone a traumatic experience: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and at last, acceptance. It took weeks, sometimes even months for them to finally come to terms with what had occured, even if they couldn't explain it. And as it dawned on them what had occurred, another truth dawned on them as well: they had won. They had won and they had not even had to fire a shot.

Some of their number were gone as well. It seemed to fall on those who had remained heavily augmented and had been their liaisons and spies in ordinary society. Some too of that normal society had survived, and though their stockpiles were likewise mysteriously depleted of some of their higher order equipment, they reacted quickly. With speed and efficiency they mobilized the assets that remained, and within a month the whole of the Sol System was within their grasp, remaining pockets of resistance either quarantined or coerced into joining them in this brave new world.

They moved to secure the Gates. The AIs were all dead and gone, but anything physical can be coaxed with enough time and the right leverage. While the engineers worked on the problem with their remaining equipment and knowledge (the backups were numerous; from print to magnetic tape to optical and solid-state; most was gone, but much was not), the politicians of the factions assembled on Earth, in the empty halls of the old seat of Republican government. They invited representatives of the vanquished to attend as well; it was obvious whatever had occurred transcended mere divisions of opinion. They argued and cajoled, screamed and threatened, debated and postured for months on end as politicians and revolutionaries will. But it appeared they were reaching a consensus of some sort. And then news arrived from the icy fringes of the solar system: "Gates reactivated; contact reestablished."

The engineers had actually had them working for some weeks, but had discovered without an acknowledgement sequence on the other side they simply would not function. So they kept retrying, like clockwork, every four hours, six times a day, for days and days. It had begun to become something of a joke; were they all that was left? Then one day the display flashed "CONNECTION ESTABLISHED" instead of the oh-so-familiar "CONNECTION FAILED."

The Gate flashed open for the first time in months and illuminated before it the gathered deep space military of the survivors; ships either Rebel or Republican. They had marshaled all available forces to the first Gate to be opened, unsure of what would greet them from the other side and taking no chances in the matter. Some had postulated the so-called "Great Disappearance" had been the opening strike by some sort hitherto unknown alien race, though speculation ran rampant and countless theories were put forward. No one on this side was taking any chances in the matter. A historic exchange then occurred...

"This is Sol. You will identify yourself or we will be forced to take a defensive posture."
A long silence...
"This is the Free Worlds League of Alpha Centauri. We bow to no Emperor of Earth."
"The Emperor is gone. The Republic is gone. We are simply Sol. Our intentions are peaceful."
"Let us meet in the Gate then. One ship from each party."

And the connection was broken. From the Fleet was dispatched a single scout ship, and it disappeared into the Gate. The opening exchange was recorded for posterity as was best as was possible. In the exchange it became apparent that the local Alpha Centauri rebellion had met with similar success. The details were relayed to both sides, the politicians wrangled, and eventually a delegation from the newly rediscovered system was sent to Earth too. So it repeated for the other Gates around Sol; even a single Republican holdout at Eta Cassiopeiae acknowledged that the situations was extraordinary and with the seat of the Republican government gone, agreed to send a delegation.

And so the conference swelled. The framework that had already been hammered out was put to all the new delegations, and each added its own opinions to the mix, and it was argued and tweaked and refined and tuned endlessly, until at last everyone agreed to it. It was the framework of a new Constitution, drawn from the best examples of the past; the Magna Carta, the American Constitution, the Dorsa Brevia agreement, even some parts of the Republic's constitution. It was somewhat ad hoc, though it still had measures to try and limit the old corruptions of Earth, and the capacity to be further modified. It wasn't perfect, but it was a start.

And so, in just under a year after the most tumultuous event in humanity's history, the Imperial Republic was dead, and standing in its place was the Commonwealth of Interstellar Domains, or CID. It soon thereafter, through the works of a surviving journalist from Iberia, gained the nickname of "El Cid."
 
Gah, I'm going to attempt to turn the Eldar into some Human Race, with the appropriate Idealogies, (and strengths and weakness's), just need to fix the Direction I want to take them in.

its nice that we have our very own "Fall" event, whereby the Grand Empire the Humans once had has fallen, but the rememnants are no dying out, So I think it will have to be an idealoge thats dying out :/

*sigh* I would also like to have my people on a Low "G" World, or system. Just so evolution can effect them but...the time periods too small :/

Oh Erik, can you give us a brief of the Republic or whatever Humanity existed in prior to the "fall" was like? Idelogies, social norms etc? Or is that at our discretion?
 
Bloody hell, two people apeing WH40K? :p I can see Cleric coming over the hill with Orkish, Morlock-like humans already... Not that hard to make up something new and unique, you know.

Actual statistics to be up later.
 
Bloody hell, two people apeing WH40K? I can see Cleric coming over the hill with Orkish, Morlock-like humans already... Not that hard to make up something new and unique, you know.

*shrug* Of course not, but the Eldar were always my first love...if you know what I mean :p Anyway, it would be impossible to make an exact replica.
 
Symphony D. said:
...the Dorsa Brevia agreement...

Nice :D

Story:

…Jagannatha…the compassionate lord of the world…one of the names of Krishna, the dark-blue one, in Hindu tradition. In part it is an appropriate name for our world I suppose; most of our population is of Indian extraction after all, and it is a deep, dark blue when seen from space. However the ‘compassionate’ appellation is something I would take umbrage with, for the world is nothing of the sort.

A brief history now, from my own skewed perspective of course. Jagannatha and its system (TLC1-AS, now corrupted in the vulgar and refined argot like to “Telcias”) was discovered in much the usual way in the late 2300s by a slow scout ship, its name now lost in the Sublimation, out of Parvati 4, the ship swinging by the hot A2 more out of the need for a course correction than any real hope of finding a habitable planet. However when the dark-blue rocky world was spotted swinging a distant 6.7 AU from the primary the crew were duty bound to decelerate and investigate, and investigate they did. Of course the initial scans didn’t look promising; optical showed an unbroken cloud layer stained dark by storms and a smog of exotic compounds, radar that only a few jagged and mountainous islands projected above a chill and thick world ocean. Lacking appropriate facilities for surface exploration in such conditions, and anyway eager to travel on to better looking worlds the Old Republics arrays had spotted, the scout ship beamed the information, along with a catalog of the systems asteroid belts and gas giants back to Parvati and continued on their way.

The next visitors to Jagannatha were of course the Parvati Mining Corporation some sixty years later. They did not intend to colonize the seemingly inhospitable dark blue marble, but were intending to use its abundant water inventory to supply mining stations and habitats in the asteroid belts, but all that changed when the first landing pods screamed through the cloud deck to land on the storm wracked shore of one of the rocky islets. The sea was dark and purple-black, almost sludgy with cables and threads of material and larger conglomerations like haystacks further out from shore. It was clear they had found that most interesting of chemical reactions – life. It wasn’t life as they knew it of course, instead of squiggly lipid coated bags of protein and DNA life on Jagannatha consists of a strange mélange of chalogen-carbon tubes and carbohydrate like groups, each replicating ‘organism’ being a single molecular structure ranging in size from viroids to Volkswagens. This was something very rare indeed, and as all you businessmen out there know, rarity brings profit. The PMC set up a subsidiary to study and develop commercial applications for Jag-life, and used its considerable clout to get Telcias system declared part of Parvati’s Outback[1].

Jag-life soon proved its worth when techniques was developed to connect to the silicon and nanotube wires of human technology, effectively having the Jag-life become an extension of a processor. This technique was used to convert large nodes in the ocean into molecular factories, able to produce thousands of tonnes of nearly any molecular structure required, including some novel tools that Jags biochemistry had inspired. The next step was logical and inevitable, and the specially designed class seven AI ‘Ganesha’ was connected and ensconced in a node. Ganesha rapidly expanded his node to several kilometres in size using the awesome Manas he possessed. This living mountain was the first of what would be the next stage of Jagannatha’s development, as the great breathing citadels of the Devas-AIs drifted through the world ocean, synthesizing enormous amounts of material. Each supported dense populations fed by the food-weavers, and great research and commercial activity was carried out. The success of this belle époque was such that Jagannatha was able to afford an extensive asteroid exploitation program and even (with Parvatian assistance, the mother world desiring Jagannatha cheap matter craft) construct a Handwavium Bubble; a new and glorious era was at hand…

..or was it? Whilst Jagannatha’s foolhardy government (the pantheon of Devas-AIs and elected officials) was still paying for the HB a grave threat appeared; cheap human designed nanotech was beginning to appear. Jagannatha’s economic advantages disappeared in a matter of years, and although it had other strengths – a novel approach to AI design for one, the economy soon plunged into recession, and the HB stood idle for months at a time. In the end Jagannatha’s commerce turned to a darker path, to the design of strange neurochemicals based on Jag-biochemistry. One of them, “Blue Picasso”, stood out as the strongest seller, and is very important for our current situation. Now no one living, not even a famed risk taker such as myself, has ever had Blue Picasso, despite the immorality of its production, taking it without significant augmentation would be akin to opening an airlock without wearing a spacesuit – explosive decompression of the mind! But such a product was in high demand among the altered and augmented sybarites of the core republican worlds, and it was demanded that “production” was stepped up.

Ah “production”, that word has covered as many sins as “reorganization” or “solutions”. In this case production consisted of keeping an entire caste of men and women trapped in the citadels for their entire life, never being allowed the freedom to choose their course and subjected to painful indignities. For one of the core ingredients in Jag neurologicals was distilled Buddhi of humans; looms of engineered Jag-life were implanted in the skin and nerves and cells of base-level humans (base-level pain to give those more “visceral” experiences the degenerates craved), and constantly read their thoughts and feelings, distilled them, chemically encoded then on engineered molecules and then milked from our bodies by the corporate overlords. Yes, those blue patches everyone carries are no less than the udders of a cow! The overcrowding, the despair, the pain were all to add spice to the concoction. It wasn’t the Devas or the Government that did this of course, don’t get me wrong, the first were program bound and the second were powerless as the PMC and the republic sent in its bullies and slave owners.

So the situation might have remained for ever more, the people weren’t allowed any access to augmentation beyond the looms, and the Devas utterly controlled the physical environments, any riot or rebellion would have seen the warrens flooded by the waters of the cold sea. But then a miracle happened – the Sublimation as every augment and AI disappeared in an instant; some argued this was the opening strike by some unknown alien race, or the blessing of the deity, most however realised the dire circumstances they were in. Without the Devas the living citadels were frozen into immobility, and the people had to cut their way out of the warrens and into the abandoned higher levels, and use what remained there to survive. Those weeks and months were brutal and savage as faction’s fought for control and scant food, and over half the population was lost, but eventually order reigned as the Lokapalas managed to gain control and the citadels were dragged by iron ship into shallow water to form new archipelagos. The next problem was of course food – the constant storm clouds of the planet made chlorophyll driven food production impossible - even now, forty years on the mention of the Famine Times will bring a shudder and a quick prayer from any survivor, with seven eighths of the population starving over a period of four years.

It was a cosmic irony that the very thing that had been the rational for our serfdom would now be that which saved us, for it proved possible to reprogram some basic parts of the engineered Jag-life by interfacing it with our own implanted cultures, and through a painful and laborious process…I trust you have gone to the tomb of the &#256;ditya martyrs?...don’t roll your eyes at me boy, those people gave their lives to find the interface protocols for the food-weavers, hundreds dead from toxic feed back!...Anyway we eventually managed to return to space and restart the remaining asteroid mining machinery and ships…oh give me lip will you? We’ll see about that you abyss damned Chut! Have at you!...

-Extracts from the drunken lecture series given by the estimed philosopher Ser C. N. Annadurai outside the Sunset bar in Ganesh-12, moments before starting a fight.

[1]Outback being a term used in the Old Republic for systems with continuous contact with imperial worlds via slower than light ship, but whose worth does not justify the costs of constructing a Handwavium Bubble in the system.
 
Back
Top Bottom