Interesting play variant

Can't you give any more useful information about what exactly you've done, why and how you're doing it? By remaining so mysterious I'm getting the idea everyone just ignores you because they don't know what they're downloading. And that while, from the sound of it, it seems like what you're doing could possibly be revolutionary, if you can also implement more practical things than just these individual tiny patches.
 
I am just trying to share the interesting things I have found. I don't care about ignoring, though I think it's because my versions are Civ2 Multiplayer Gold and not so many civers have that version.

And what about practical things - I would do that with a lot of pleasure. What is required? :D What needs are there in Civ2?

I will explain how to do that after revealing what is good to change or to add in Civ2.
 
For example, now I have created a civ2.exe modification, that allows every unit to build cities, not just settlers. Also it can be done to be possible to build cities on water.
 
Hmmm, and I don't have MGE either. So unfortunately I can't test any of it. I think it is actually the version most people have, though. It would be rather nice if you could get ToT. Most new things are being developed for that, and it's the latest Civ2 version.

But let me think. Let me start with some non-gameplay related ones:

How about having Civ2 always start at the default zoom level (= Shift+Z)? On screen resolutions higher than 800x600 it will normally start a game a few levels zoomed in, which looks fairly horrible.

Or what about disabling horizontal movement, for both the human players and the AI? This sounds like a weird suggestion, but with such a change, and a few imaginative changes to the graphics, Civ2 could be changed to a hex-based game (i.e. with hexagonal tiles).

And then, how about the opposite of what you just did? Disallowing city building altogether, while everything else still works for Settlers. That can be helpful for scenarios where city building shouldn't be allowed. We now have to rely on "house rules" to stop the players from building cities.

Oh, do those patches also work for the AI? That is, in your last patch, does the AI also use all units to build cities.

Is there any chance you could change the game to allow for more than 8 civs, 255 cities on a map, or more than 2048 units in a game? That's going to be tricky, because at least with the civs and cities, it would require more bytes for the data in the saved game (and memory), so if this were possible, it would make their savegames incompatible with other Civ2 versions.

And how about increasing the number of units in the rules.txt to 80?

Increasing the number of terrain types? Or, failing that, having multiple "Ocean" terrain types?

Change the map surface value from a signed to an unsigned integer to allow for maps up to 65,535 tiles. Or are they unsigned already and it just needs to be assigned more memory?

Increased memory for events. This is particularly helpful for MGE, since ToT has about 100K for events, while MGE only has about 32K, I believe.

Major objectives don't work in MGE while they did work in FW (cities can be worth 3 points instead of 1, there's a separate "flag" for each). Can you make them work again?

Could you also let Civ2 make use of extra things in the rules.txt? Say, people could make certain units unbribable by adding an extra flag to the unit's rules.txt entry, and the patched Civ2 knows what to do with it? Or how about some custom .ini file or so?

Could you suppress the pop-up you get when city production is automatically upgraded to a different unit? (i.e. the @UPGRADED text message from the game.txt) That would be mighty helpful for "yo-yo obsolescence".

Allow the building of roads/railroads on water, and more importantly, have land units actually be able to travel along them, while ships can also still cross.

Fix the goto bug.

Fix the AI.


Well, that'll do for now. Some of those will undoubtedly be (next to) impossible. I'm just kinda probing what kind of things you can do. I'm sure there'd be hundreds of other improvements that could be made.
 
At first - ALL the things are possible. The question is - which are difficult are easy.

Great thanks for the list. It may be very useful and helpful.
 
Mercator said:
Disallowing city building altogether, while everything else still works for Settlers. That can be helpful for scenarios where city building shouldn't be allowed. We now have to rely on "house rules" to stop the players from building cities.
Done! Human players' Settlers can't build cities.

Rename files into .rar
 

Attachments

Skyer said:
At first - ALL the things are possible. The question is - which are difficult are easy.

Yes, I suppose that's true. But some things can become so difficult as to be near impossible. Or you might simple not be interested in implementing some.

Skyer said:
What do you mean? Who bothers adding units up to 80?

Yeah, as The Person said. Scenario makers. ToT has 80 units. Allowing 80 units in ToT would MGE equal on that account.

The same question. Who bothers creating more types in rules.txt?

Well, not all of my suggestions were quite as important as some others. But there are so many things to change. I just thought up a few.

Having multiple Ocean terrain types is basically just a graphical thing. Say, allowing you to create a deep-sea graphic... Or hey... Could you make a terrain where only land units and submarines can pass through? That could serve as some sort of polar ice cap kind of terrain.

I was wondering, do you know the Mess patch or A-patch for MSN Messenger? They're small programs that edit MSN Messenger, removing banners etc. They have a simple interface where you can tick checkboxes to implement certain hacks. Could you create something like that for Civ2? That way people wouldn't have to download all your different patches for every thing you do, with every patch just doing one thing. But they could download one program and decide however many patches they want to apply.

And I'll have to agree with The Person. Hats off to you, Skyer, you're doing great work.
 
Skyer,

there's lots of stuff many people would be intrested in. May I suggest you start a thread in the scenario creation forum where more people would give suggestions.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14

My own wish list

extra space for events - like Mercator said to 100k
fixing the 'anyone' and 'goto' bugs in the event language
fixing the triple objective bug
removing ocen currents
 
kobayashi said:
Skyer,

there's lots of stuff many people would be intrested in. May I suggest you start a thread in the scenario creation forum where more people would give suggestions.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14
Well, you can start it on your own, 'cause I don't understand, what you want to write there.

Again - don't understand about rules.txt. You can add as nuch units there as you want. Do u mean, that program counts only X of them?
 
Are you for real, skyer? This sounds excellent! Does that worker (settler) thin really work?

I just want to know if it's feasable to have more than 7 civs at one time in civ2. That would be my weatest dream! :D
 
A similar thing to this is being done to Transport Tycoon Deluxe, another Microprose classic. There a bunch of people are reverse-engineering the original game and are adding a lot of new stuff while fixing some bugs. If you know the game, you won't believe what they have all been able to add. Check it out! I seriously hope we can get a similar thing done with Civ2.
 
Skyer said:
At first - ALL the things are possible. The question is - which are difficult are easy.

Oh, and I know that everything is possible, in principle. But the truth is that you're doing this on your own, and I don't expect you'd make this your full-time job for the next few years. So the question is really, what can you do?

Skyer said:
Again - don't understand about rules.txt. You can add as nuch units there as you want. Do u mean, that program counts only X of them?

The rules.txt is a fixed format. You can't just add an extra line for a new unit, an extra city improvement, wonder, technology, terrain type or civilization. Civ2 will crash or just ignore the extra line. It will crash too, when you try and add an extra value onto the end of a line, say.

They're all hard-coded. So it would be nice if that limit could be removed, or increased, or something.

What software are you using to do all this? Do you just use a hex-editor and some handy machine language knowledge? Do you have a debugger and some assembly language knowledge? Or do you know more beyond that? Are you an expert in this sort of thing, or just sort of learning and experimenting on Civ2? I'm familiar with the theory behind all this, I can program and do a little fancy hex-editing, but I've never done any proper "reverse engineering". So I don't really know how much you'd need to know to do what you did, or how difficult or time-consuming it is.
 
Hi Skyer,

Kudos for braving the civ2 executable. Mercator brought this to the attention of more scenario creators who don't really stray into the General area any more.

As I see it you can best develop along three lines:

1. Removing simple restictions: money limit, event space limit, unit limit (I think you've done this already?), city limit. Upper limit on free unit support (ten).

2. Removing hardcoded gameplay restrictions (and boy are there a lot): things like domain role restrictions for spy/freight unit

3. New functions, which is what I've think you've been doing already.

Two requests though:
Could you maintain one thread with a list of what changes you've made so far?
Also, could you explain about the methodology used. I've had enough success decoding parts of the save game file structure from hex-editing that I might be able to help if this is what you're doing.
 
I'm amazed Skyer. I tried your Setler who can not build cities and it works out perfectly! Are you some kind of a magician? ;)

My own humble request, although already mentioned by Andrew above me here, I just want to ephasize it:

1. Remove the max cities number
2. Flying spies (to work as strategic bombers)
 
Skyer, it is a pleasure to meet you! Gret thread and work here!

If you can increase the number of units and cities allowed in CIV2 beyond
hat they currently are, that would be a legendary victory...This has been
the holy grail of CIV2 for so long!!!

Please post up anything you have! :king:

Can you create zips?

:)
 
Skyer said:
Done.

I will not post a file, 'cause each time pack it, rename it, and post it in 2 files is too annoying:)

Heh!

This one would be the most awaited by all CIV fans.

If you could post this one, I will test it.

:)
 
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