The Sith Power of Religion

After the not completely succesful conclusion to RK05 Islamic Isolationists vs Religious Nuts and a previously not very succesful conclusion to HN02 Jihadist Power of Religion is it time for yet another religion themed warlike SG?
Guess I'll find out.

Version: Warlords 2.08

Level: Monarch (!)

Civ: Aztecs

Map: not decided. Maybe islands, low sea level?

Standard size world.

Random AI (unless people want specific opponents)

Barbarians are Raging.

Variants:

This time round Confucianism is the Sith Religion (obviously no real life connection at all, but I don't know how to mod a religion).

Cannot discover any religion except Sith.

Cannot build/capture any cities until Sith is discovered (ie first to Code of Laws).

All GP points are for prophets only until Kong Miao is built, then its free rein.

Every city must have Sacrifical Altar as one of its first three buildings.

Must switch to slavery asap and cannot switch out.

Sith is a happy religion. Unhappy people are therefore heretics and must be immediately sacrificed (i.e. whipped).

No open borders/trades until Sith is established (should not be a major handicap).

No cissy civics: pacifism, free religion, free trade, free speech. The only true freedom is subordination to the whims of the Sith!

Victories: all enabled but we must win by conquest or domination (no pseudo-diplomacy).

Deliberately breaking variants means game ends in defeat.

Optional variants.

1) Raze all other holy cities.
2) raze all non-sith cities.

Me, "Checking in" should be appropriate.
Sounds like we're just making it much easier now, now that you picked Confucianism which isn't terribly out of the way to any useful techs compared to Divine Right and Islam. But not even Code of Laws is a sure deal... and I still don't know about razing, it was certainly heavily opposed in the previous game.

As discussed I am checking in for this one. Islands may be production poor but I think that COL is quite doable more so than DR. Only thing is though AI goes for it quite early so we might think about using Oracle. The Oracle could be our early temple for the Sith and Gpriest producer. Confucianism is more appropriate too as the Sith religion is a philosophy:



One might compare the Sith code to Existentialism, as many aspects such as the quest for passion and freedom, and the concept of defining one's own destiny, are shared by the two.

These were extracted from Wikipedia which has pretty good information on the subject.

I do think though that we should raze holy cities and take cities if we wish for our purposes of expanding. Of course raze which we do not need.

Having this variant from the beginning makes it more acceptable I would say and let's try not to get a landmass with a lot of jungle so a temperate climate may be better. I have found though even that setting sometimes comes up with a lot of jungle at the equator of course.

One last extraction from Wikipedia which of course fascinates me:

"Two there should be. No more, no less. One to embody power, the other to crave it." - Darth Bane

"Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know best what to undermine you. Tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know what I must force you to face. Tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you. And tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you" - Darth Plagueis

So that makes three of us so far but I think maybe a new added variant might make this interesting too. Since we have seen some interesting unique ways of playing lately and we can only be two we should play in teams one a master the other an apprentice. So let's say we have 6 players. 3 teams play the same save and we set dates for comparison and the strongest team's save is taken and the three teams continue from there. This of course will mean we don't play with the usual SG guidelines and take our time since we also have SGOTM coming up. Very similiar to trash game but one more thing though. Any team that fails to observe the variant is disqualified. So getting a lot of players maybe even 8 or more might be good. The reason why I think this is more appropriate we can't all be Sith Lords in the true theme unless we play as two. Maybe the creator of the SG has some input or idea if he would like to pursue this. I am getting bored of the usual turn style and would like to try a new way of doing it and Pigswill has a played a similiar themed type game already.

We could also consider just putting teams together that play in direct IP mode at an agreed time and have the AI setup in teams too. Just some ideas and would like to try something different. Let's say team 1 is Aztec and the other another aggressive civ like Vikings which in islands game would really be a great combo with Aztecs. Only problem though is you might not be on the same island. So another map might be considered here.

Let's try something different and I am sure lots of players will show interest.

IP direct can be fun and so a similiar timezone would be good such as Pigswill and I wouldn't have too much problem only being 5 hours apart.

Playing simultanous sounds interesting but as well as time-zones there's real life to take into consideration so I suspect it would prove very difficult in practice.
Master-apprentice theme is worth developing. Maybe play warlords prince, advertise for less experienced players as 'apprentices'. Play alternate master, prentice. Could incorporate (i.e. pinch) idea from Chaos games whereby each master plays different styles and objectives e.g. Palpatine aims for diplomacy, Vader aims for war. Over to Cosmichael to develop this theme further.

On the other hand I'm not sure if the survivors from RK5 have really mastered 2.08 monarch yet so we could play it as standard SG with slightly easier variants.

You could possibly use the tech tree editor (as found here) to change Code of Laws to suit your purposes. I've never been beaten to CoL if I head directly there.

I'll join the fun if you're short of the usual religious types.

The Master and Apprentice…..

Our new Title “The Sith Power of Religion – Master and apprentice"

The focus here is to look true to the theme of a Sith Lord. Their ideology and philosophy is dark and selfish looking to eventually rule. It is a desire for power that drives them through hate and anger. How does such a pair co exist with one another. The apprentice is subdued to the Master and to do his bidding but always secretly one day wishes to take his Master’s place. He would kill him to accomplish this much like Sidious did to Plagueis in his sleep.

What manner can one measure who truly is the Master and Apprentice in the game of civilization. The ability to reach a goal in a certain time with the fastest and highest score or fulfilling a variant which always can be fun. How about what each accomplish during their turn. Meaning that the progress made each turn of each player is the measure. Since there are only two players I would say an extended period of play would be best. Perhaps a 40 or 50 turnset once a week per player. Only discussion between the Master and Apprentice can be done when the game starts. This would mean having separate threads for each team. Only the masters may choose to discuss their accomplishments in the main thread. The team fastest to achieve conquest becomes the one and only Master and Apprentice. How the roles will be defined of the Master and the Apprentice is of course subject to discussion.

To entice things and make it more interesting for the players each team will also have an AI apprentice which acts as the “helper” in game and the human apprentice acts in cohesion with the Master in the thread. The Master does have final say however if the apprentice during his turn surpasses the master and accomplishes a large jump in the game then may claim “Jihad” to make a master play. He has till 500ad to do this and must have destroyed at least one team and built a 2 wonders on the Sith List. Should he accomplish this he will become the Master. Be warned though failure is quite severe. Should you fail then in the vein of the Sith you are killed. The Master must then go out and seek another apprentice to take his place. The fallen apprentice may only fill the spot of another team should they need one.

The remaining AI’s would of course be playing in teams as well. So during game play you are always playing in a team with the AI and can tell him what you want done from research to where to attack. He/She doesn’t always do what you ask attack wise but makes you feel good in knowing he’s thinking about it.

I would suggest 4 teams in the game no more since I want to play this on Monarch and gain insights on the new AI. Having an AI team mate will also help players to see better into what the AI is doing now and how.

In a nutshell:

1. 4 human teams 2 players each playing a different game (same setting though)
2. During gameplay four teams one team human and AI rest AI.
3. No communication between teams separate thread. (create your teams) unless the Master chooses too.
4. Try to role play and write with a storyline keeping the Spirit of the Sith
5. Each team pick their Darth titles.
6. The Jihad play can only be done if the apprentice is making a significant jump during game play and must evidence this by facts.

Ok now of course I would be glad to hear different ideas on this and what else we could do to add flavour to it.

Also I would like to mention Pigswill Lord Twilight that we remove the first intro at the top of you post. Sith do not fail as failure is death. We are revived Sith starting again and we need to attract more with our code of philosophy



Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.




The Korriban landscape so if you want to be brave and base a start on something like that (Arid/Oasis?)

So far we have the following players:

Pigswill - Darth Plagueis
Robo Kai - Darth Sidious
Cosmichail - Darth Vader
Ozbenno - Darth Bane (one of the most powerful used a thought bomb)

So how about we wait for two more teams or apprentices as how many wish to be Master and how many Apprentice. Don't forget that the apprentice can make a power play and that in itself makes it interesting since the Master will have to be on his toes.

Sounds interesting (though somewhat complex ).

Cosmichael: as I kind of hijacked the idea to get things started how about we call this thread officially dead (though obviously not a failure) and you start a new thread with title and variants you've suggested (and maybe a link from this thread).

I don't think it's that complex but hey I'm trying to make a theme based on the Master and apprentice. Weekends are bad for me especially this one. I won't be able to really do anything until Monday. I would like to see if there is interest in it beyond the 4 people we have so far and try to simplify it somewhat.

Hi, I'm sick of my PBEMs dying when people leave so thought I'd try a succession game. I usually play emperor level if that's alright.

EDIT: OK, I just want a standard SG where we beat the force out of the AI. I'll think up a sith name for myself but don't like any of the other team or dual play changes. Maybe I'll catch you in another game. May the force serve you.

Actually we're still reconsidering the master-apprentice variant. But since there are five of us (if 1889 still wants to join), why don't we just start a normal SG?

I'll stay in for a normal SG.

If Cosmichael is up for a straightforward SG (tho retaining above variants, adding raze holy cities but not playing raze all non-sith cities) then we have a game. I'll pm Cosmichael and Ozebenno.

Any thoughts as to map type? Oracle sounds good if we have forests to start.

Maybe our Great Generals can be our Sith Apprentices while we operate behind the scenes as the Sith Council?

Good idea with the generals.
Why are we the Aztecs anyway... can't we be Rameses or Stalin? As far as I know there isn't any SG that featured them yet...

I went for aztecs coz they're one of my faves and jaguars with sacrificial altars seem suited to the variant. Ramasses doesn't feel right to me but I'll check out Uncle Joe.

Checking in again. All sounds good.

I like the idea of the sacrificial altars with Monty but happy to play other Ramses (2 priest monument) or Stalin (agg/ind is a good combo).

If we're to win Domination/Conquest maybe try inland sea or lakes map type. I

Had a look at Stalin. Agg/Ind is not a bad combo and historically he fits in with the theme but UU arrives late and UB isn't really suited for conquest/ domination.
Jaguar rush has certainly been done a number of times but Sacrificial Altar is new to warlords and I haven't noticed many warlord Aztec SGs so far.

Maybe go for large lakes map, temperate, high sea level/large lakes?

Darth Stalin's UU may arrive late but it is a killer, although it has been nerfed by Warlords. UB would be a no show though. Never played any of the three being mentioned before in a SG.

Map type seems fine.

There are already 2 recent Aztec SG's already (DM01 and Temple of Doom), which is why I kinda don't want to play as Monty. So far I haven't seen Wang Kon in an SG.

Map is fine, the leader, I won't oppose Monty if it will help start the game.

Been a crazy week and it isn't over yet but I am up to a regular SG game as Sith. I like playing as Ramesses a lot. Seem to have a lot of luck playing as him. The map Ozbenno suggest sounds fine too. So let's go for it and Pigswill any time you are ready.