What is a Multi-Team Demo Game?

CommandoBob · Dec 04, 2006, 09:44 PM

Never assume those you recruit know as much as you do.

In a nutshell, a Multi-Team Demo Game (MTDG) is

A game played with C3C or Conquests, patched to 1.22.
Played as a PBEM game.
With a common understanding of what is allowed and what is not allowed.
With no AI.
With humans only.
With some game parameters decided by the teams, some by the players as a group.
Grouped into different teams (some players come by recruitment of a team, others by luck of the draw).
Where each team has their own internal government (or lack of, if so desired).
And each team has their own separate forum for in-team discussions, that is private for that team (no snooping).
Where each team can be as truthful to the other teams as they see fit.
Where each team is to trying to out-play, out-wit and out-last all the others.

Unlike a Succession Game, where someone plays a few turns, posts the results, talk about the results and future plans and then another person does the same thing, in a MTDG each team plays their ONE turn in order, passing the save from team to team. At the end of all human turns the barbarians, if any, get their turn. The key is the one turn per team.

Which means everybody on the team can discuss the in-game situation at just about anytime for any turn.

Generic Team Positions

Each team will have someone called a Turn Player. Their job is to execute the desires of the team in the game. Turn Players have the joy and responsibility of playing the game. They have to get the saved game via email, play the turn, make the proper log entries (both for the world and their team) and then save the game and send it on the the next team.

Early on, the Turn Player is the most important person in the game. Once other civs have been met, Foreign Ministers or Ambassadors become important as they represent your team to the other teams you have met. They handle negioations and treaty making and are generally bringers of good will. They are not required to be truthful.

Internally, most teams have a position called Military Advisor that focuses on the military strength, positioning and strategy. And a Domestic Advisor that oversees city production orders, worker allocation and the treasury.

Internal Team Structure

Some teams have no formal internal structure. They tend to let people gravitate towards positions and things they like. Other teams do have a formal structure, holding elections for their own set of internal and external offices on a regular basis. Which means that the Turn Players on Turn 0 may all change by Turn 100.

Most teams do have a formal structure, patterned on earlier Democracy games. In those games, one team (the Democracy) played the AIs.

In this game, each team determines their own structure, but are considered 'Democracies' even if they have no structure (after all, they had some sort of vote or decision making process to determine their structure!)

So What Can a Newbie Do?
Anything.

Just because a person has a position in the team doesn't mean they have all the answers. Some players are very methodical but not very creative in how they handle in-game issues. Others may be brilliant with their ability to wage war but can't keep the workers busy.

And most of all, sometimes they become too focused on a particular plan that they don't see any other options. And it may take a newbie to ask the all-important question of 'Why?' to wake them up.

If the team has elected positions, the current leadership may need to change due to something called Real Life (bills, work, families, etc), which opens up a chance for the new person to have some responsibility on how the game is played.

All of Which Means

First, this ain't your normal game of Civ. No way. You're playing against people that are just as sneaky and underhanded as you are AND you are trying to beat them fair and square (well, mostly fair and square).
Second, you don't have to be a great Diety player to be on a team or hold a position in a team. In fact, that could be a real handicap, 'cos the AI has a limited role (barbarians only) in this game.
If all you have is vanilla or PTW, you can still be on a team. You could not be the Turn Player, since that does require C3C, but a lot of vanilla and PTW still works in C3C. Building workers and settlers is not something that Conquests invented, and talking to people started a long time before this franchise began.
You really ought to sign up now, even if the game has already started. It is never too late to join.

azzaman333 · Dec 05, 2006, 01:46 AM

It requires as much time as you are willing to put in as well. (If you want to spend 5 mins a day checking the forums and making comments, thats all you do. If you want to have a more active role, again thats up to you)

DaveShack · Dec 05, 2006, 08:56 AM

Or to put that a more positive way:

You select your own participation level. If you want to spend 5 mins a day checking the forums and making comments, thats all you do. If you want to have a more active role, again thats up to you. Having other team members makes this possible, vs. a solo PBEM where you're on the hook for everything.

CommandoBob · Dec 05, 2006, 05:21 PM

I expanded the first post quite a bit and tried to explain more of the game. I didn't exactly answer azzaman333's and DaveShack's posts, but they were in my mind as I added things.

**Ginger_Ale** · Dec 05, 2006, 06:08 PM

Very nice expansion...this deserves a sticky!

Whomp · Dec 05, 2006, 07:07 PM

Excellent explaination CB!

Another thing that can not be discounted is the camraderie that's built.

Tubby Rower was explaining to us recently that the new addition to his family acquired a nickname "E-Train" from our team at KISS and it stuck.

RegentMan · Dec 06, 2006, 01:11 AM

Great guide!

One nitpick: In the bulleted list, it says "No AI" (which is correct). Yet:

Quote:

Unlike a Succession Game, where someone plays a few turns, posts the results, talk about the results and future plans and then another person does the same thing, in a MTDG each team plays their ONE turn in order, passing the save from team to team. At the end of all human turns the AI gets a turn. The key is the one turn per team.

and:

Quote:

In fact, that could be a real handicap, ~~'cos~~ as the AI has a limited role in this game.

It has no role!

BCLG100 · Dec 06, 2006, 05:07 AM

Could the AI not count as barbs?

CommandoBob · Dec 06, 2006, 06:48 AM

I was thinking of the barbs as the AI, but you are right, there are no AI civs.

I'll correct that.

RegentMan · Dec 06, 2006, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCLG100

Could the AI not count as barbs?

When people type "AI" I do not think of barbs, I think of other AI civilizations.

dutchfire · May 14, 2008, 07:05 AM

I tried making a brand new fancy MTDG book page here. It works like Wiki, so anyone can add/correct something if they want to. I used CommandoBob's post at the start of the thread

Paul#42 · May 14, 2008, 01:47 PM

Impressive, what people find time to do when waiting for the save

Nice to see there are people out there still enthusiastic about this (type of) game.

dutchfire · May 16, 2008, 08:09 AM

By the way, it's possible for each team to add their own sub-page to that page

CommandoBob · May 16, 2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dutchfire

By the way, it's possible for each team to add their own sub-page to that page

Like a recruitment ad?

'Join Our Team! See the World!'

dutchfire · May 16, 2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommandoBob

Like a recruitment ad?

'Join Our Team! See the World!'

For example, or to post some story when you've built yet another wonder.

Saber is thinking about these lines by the way:
'Join Our Team! See nothing but the coastal blockade surrounding our island!'

Marsden · May 19, 2008, 06:47 AM

Now now. All those men are there to welcome happy tourists to our lovely nation. We've got the four star rating from William Shatner's travel site!

Ferrouswheel · Jun 18, 2011, 10:25 PM

So wait, is this thing still going on?

justanick · Jun 19, 2011, 12:44 AM

This game is over. However, there is the ISDG with two teams from the fanatics and two teams of the german civforum. Actually it is about to reach round 64, so you might still join.

Ferrouswheel · Jun 19, 2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justanick

This game is over. However, there is the ISDG with two teams from the fanatics and two teams of the german civforum. Actually it is about to reach round 64, so you might still join.

What does ISDG stand for? can you link it please

thanks a bunch

CommandoBob · Jun 19, 2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferrouswheel

What does ISDG stand for? can you link it please

thanks a bunch

Inter Site Democracy Game.

You are in the right forum 'hallway' for it but you're in the wrong 'room'.

Dec 04, 2006, 09:44 PM	#1
CommandoBob AbstractArt Join Date: May 2005 Location: Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones Posts: 7,972	What is a Multi-Team Demo Game? Never assume those you recruit know as much as you do. In a nutshell, a Multi-Team Demo Game (MTDG) is A game played with C3C or Conquests, patched to 1.22. Played as a PBEM game. With a common understanding of what is allowed and what is not allowed. With no AI. With humans only. With some game parameters decided by the teams, some by the players as a group. Grouped into different teams (some players come by recruitment of a team, others by luck of the draw). Where each team has their own internal government (or lack of, if so desired). And each team has their own separate forum for in-team discussions, that is private for that team (no snooping). Where each team can be as truthful to the other teams as they see fit. Where each team is to trying to out-play, out-wit and out-last all the others. Unlike a Succession Game, where someone plays a few turns, posts the results, talk about the results and future plans and then another person does the same thing, in a MTDG each team plays their ONE turn in order, passing the save from team to team. At the end of all human turns the barbarians, if any, get their turn. The key is the one turn per team. Which means everybody on the team can discuss the in-game situation at just about anytime for any turn. Generic Team Positions Each team will have someone called a Turn Player. Their job is to execute the desires of the team in the game. Turn Players have the joy and responsibility of playing the game. They have to get the saved game via email, play the turn, make the proper log entries (both for the world and their team) and then save the game and send it on the the next team. Early on, the Turn Player is the most important person in the game. Once other civs have been met, Foreign Ministers or Ambassadors become important as they represent your team to the other teams you have met. They handle negioations and treaty making and are generally bringers of good will. They are not required to be truthful. Internally, most teams have a position called Military Advisor that focuses on the military strength, positioning and strategy. And a Domestic Advisor that oversees city production orders, worker allocation and the treasury. Internal Team Structure Some teams have no formal internal structure. They tend to let people gravitate towards positions and things they like. Other teams do have a formal structure, holding elections for their own set of internal and external offices on a regular basis. Which means that the Turn Players on Turn 0 may all change by Turn 100. Most teams do have a formal structure, patterned on earlier Democracy games. In those games, one team (the Democracy) played the AIs. In this game, each team determines their own structure, but are considered 'Democracies' even if they have no structure (after all, they had some sort of vote or decision making process to determine their structure!) So What Can a Newbie Do? Anything. Just because a person has a position in the team doesn't mean they have all the answers. Some players are very methodical but not very creative in how they handle in-game issues. Others may be brilliant with their ability to wage war but can't keep the workers busy. And most of all, sometimes they become too focused on a particular plan that they don't see any other options. And it may take a newbie to ask the all-important question of 'Why?' to wake them up. If the team has elected positions, the current leadership may need to change due to something called Real Life (bills, work, families, etc), which opens up a chance for the new person to have some responsibility on how the game is played. All of Which Means First, this ain't your normal game of Civ. No way. You're playing against people that are just as sneaky and underhanded as you are AND you are trying to beat them fair and square (well, mostly fair and square). Second, you don't have to be a great Diety player to be on a team or hold a position in a team. In fact, that could be a real handicap, 'cos the AI has a limited role (barbarians only) in this game. If all you have is vanilla or PTW, you can still be on a team. You could not be the Turn Player, since that does require C3C, but a lot of vanilla and PTW still works in C3C. Building workers and settlers is not something that Conquests invented, and talking to people started a long time before this franchise began. You really ought to sign up now, even if the game has already started. It is never too late to join. __________________ There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots! ~ A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code. avatar by Mistfit Last edited by CommandoBob; Dec 06, 2006 at 06:51 AM.

Dec 05, 2006, 01:46 AM	#2
azzaman333 I Can Make You Love Me Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne, AUS Reputation:131^(9/2) Posts: 20,987 Images: 2	It requires as much time as you are willing to put in as well. (If you want to spend 5 mins a day checking the forums and making comments, thats all you do. If you want to have a more active role, again thats up to you) __________________ Walking by myself with a funeral in my head. I hope you're happy what you're doing. You know how that they say you cant help but love the dead? Well that’s exactly where I’m heading. And I can make you love me...

Dec 05, 2006, 08:56 AM	#3
DaveShack Inventor Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat) Posts: 12,217	Or to put that a more positive way: You select your own participation level. If you want to spend 5 mins a day checking the forums and making comments, thats all you do. If you want to have a more active role, again thats up to you. Having other team members makes this possible, vs. a solo PBEM where you're on the hook for everything. __________________ Democracy Game Revival DemoGame Social Group MTDG II - Mad Scientists Listening: "A king, in order to be a true leader, must listen with his ears, eyes, and heart, giving his people his undivided attention."

Dec 05, 2006, 06:08 PM	#5
Ginger_Ale Lurker Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 8,448 Images: 225	Very nice expansion...this deserves a sticky! __________________ Editing Main Site Pages - Commonly Used Acronyms - Colonization FAQ - Colonization Info Center - Colonization Quick Answers - CivRev Info Center - CivRev Quick Answers - Civ4 FAQ - Civ4 Quick Answers - Civ3 FAQ - Civ3 Quick Answers

Dec 05, 2006, 07:07 PM	#6
Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 16,965	Excellent explaination CB! Another thing that can not be discounted is the camraderie that's built. Tubby Rower was explaining to us recently that the new addition to his family acquired a nickname "E-Train" from our team at KISS and it stuck. __________________ Avoid the unmanageable and manage the unavoidable. --Mark Hertsgaard A small team of A players can run circles around a giant team of B and C players. --Steve Jobs When all the experts and forecasts agree -- something else is going to happen. --Bob Farrell Some of it, you want to unlearn. -- Keith Richards

Dec 05, 2006, 05:21 PM	#4
CommandoBob AbstractArt Join Date: May 2005 Location: Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones Posts: 7,972	I expanded the first post quite a bit and tried to explain more of the game. I didn't exactly answer azzaman333's and DaveShack's posts, but they were in my mind as I added things. __________________ There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots! ~ A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code. avatar by Mistfit

Dec 06, 2006, 05:07 AM	#8
BCLG100 Music Master Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lahndan Posts: 16,657	Could the AI not count as barbs? __________________ If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from? Cure Cancer! Start Folding Today! Thanks Mistfit! And Rheinmetall for the christmasising

Dec 06, 2006, 06:48 AM	#9
CommandoBob AbstractArt Join Date: May 2005 Location: Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones Posts: 7,972	I was thinking of the barbs as the AI, but you are right, there are no AI civs. I'll correct that. __________________ There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots! ~ A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code. avatar by Mistfit

May 14, 2008, 07:05 AM	#11
dutchfire - Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,186	I tried making a brand new fancy MTDG book page here. It works like Wiki, so anyone can add/correct something if they want to. I used CommandoBob's post at the start of the thread __________________ "If only the Netherlands were in Hell! At least it's warm and generally dry there." David Černý in the statement accompanying Entropa

May 14, 2008, 01:47 PM	#12
Paul#42 flyball chaser Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hamburg Posts: 4,458	Impressive, what people find time to do when waiting for the save Nice to see there are people out there still enthusiastic about this (type of) game. __________________ It's only a game if you win but if you lose it's a stinking waste of time. [Al Bundy] If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to safe the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. [unknown bachelor centerfielder]

May 16, 2008, 08:09 AM	#13
dutchfire - Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,186	By the way, it's possible for each team to add their own sub-page to that page __________________ "If only the Netherlands were in Hell! At least it's warm and generally dry there." David Černý in the statement accompanying Entropa

May 19, 2008, 06:47 AM	#16
Marsden Keeper of the HoF Annex Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 4,024	Now now. All those men are there to welcome happy tourists to our lovely nation. We've got the four star rating from William Shatner's travel site! __________________ “What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

Jun 18, 2011, 10:25 PM	#17
Ferrouswheel Chieftain Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 31 Images: 1	So wait, is this thing still going on?

Jun 19, 2011, 12:44 AM	#18
justanick Chieftain Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 95	This game is over. However, there is the ISDG with two teams from the fanatics and two teams of the german civforum. Actually it is about to reach round 64, so you might still join.

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