[DG2] Offices Poll

Ginger_Ale · Dec 8, 2006

Please vote appropriately for the following options (one option for each question - unless it's one of the "if you voted...X", and you didn't vote X.).

Should we have deputies?
Yes
No

If you voted yes, how do we determine them?
Runner-up in Election
Appointed by Official-Elect

Who plays the save?
President (Chain of Command as backup)
Designated Player Pool (not necessarily elected officials)
Chain of Command (only elected officials, in a set order)
Other (please explain)

What officials should we have?
President, Domestic, Trade & Foreign, Military, Technology, Religion & Civic
President, Exploration & Settlement, Foreign Affairs & Trade, Science & Infrastructure, Culture & Religion, Military
President, Domestic, Military, Infrastructural
Other (please explain)

How should the Judiciary be organized?
1 Chief Justice
3 Justices (Chief Justice, Public Defender, Judge Advocate)
Other (please explain)

Should a Governor be in charge of all cities in our civilization?
Yes
No

If not, how many cities per Governor?
5 Cities Maximum (see DaveShack's proposal here)
An individual number for each Governor (voted upon by the citizens)
Other (please explain)

For the second Officials option, I had to abbreviate a lot of it because poll options cannot be more than 100 characters. For the full official titles, see the post.

I set a time limit of 7 days, which I think is reasonable enough. It's multiple choice, public poll.

ravensfire · Dec 8, 2006

You know - separate polls would have been a bit more clear ... They would also allow for concise discussions, focused on each topic.

Explanation of Other choice in playing the save ...

DP Pool, using same policies as previous DG's. It's proven to work. CoC is used for backup if DP doesn't show on time.

-- Ravensfire

Chieftess · Dec 8, 2006

Turnchats - DP plays with CoC as a backup. I also liked it when the DP had to give a schedule of play, and it was strictly followed.

Judiciary - 3 people.

Governors - Give them a certain area. I remember Civ3 was roughly 150 tiles, give or take. Civ4 would have fewer tiles, of course. So, doing it by number of cities wouldn't be as good.

Advisors - (a little different than what the poll shows) Domestic, Finance & Trade, Foriegn Affairs, Science, Military, Culture & Civics (Civic Affairs?)...

Sure some might not do much, but again, that's good for someone who's new to the game and/or doesn't want to be burdened with a lot of stuff to think about.

Roleplay - Atleast for roleplay (and perhaps "unofficial offices")...

Domestic - Office of Labor (oversees city tiles), Office of Infrastructure (oversees infrastructure and resources).

Military - Office of Army/Navy/Airforce

and so on.

Falcon02 · Dec 8, 2006

Chieftess said:
Governors - Give them a certain area. I remember Civ3 was roughly 150 tiles, give or take. Civ4 would have fewer tiles, of course. So, doing it by number of cities wouldn't be as good.

Also liked how we could plan ahead. Gonna be settling a new city... who's it go to? this governor or that governor, well, here's the provincial borders....

Ginger_Ale · Dec 8, 2006

ravensfire said:
You know - separate polls would have been a bit more clear ... They would also allow for concise discussions, focused on each topic.

Explanation of Other choice in playing the save ...

DP Pool, using same policies as previous DG's. It's proven to work. CoC is used for backup if DP doesn't show on time.

-- Ravensfire

Seperate polls would also be more confusing when referring to different options. Having to post in 5+ threads just to discuss some things that are all related? An honestly, if you want to discuss it more in-depth, that's why we still have the discussion thread.

This is more just so people can see who-voted-for-what in one location.

BTW, you voted "Governor controls all cities" and then "5 cities maximum". You realize that "Governor controls all cities" means that you can't have a maximum number he controls. :crazyeye:

Also, if you wanted to use the DP Pool, why didn't you just vote for "Designated Player Pool plays the save"?

Chieftess said:
Turnchats - DP plays with CoC as a backup. I also liked it when the DP had to give a schedule of play, and it was strictly followed.

By DP, you mean the President, not the DP pool, correct?

Judiciary - 3 people.

Governors - Give them a certain area. I remember Civ3 was roughly 150 tiles, give or take. Civ4 would have fewer tiles, of course. So, doing it by number of cities wouldn't be as good.

Advisors - (a little different than what the poll shows) Domestic, Finance & Trade, Foriegn Affairs, Science, Military, Culture & Civics (Civic Affairs?)...

Sure some might not do much, but again, that's good for someone who's new to the game and/or doesn't want to be burdened with a lot of stuff to think about.

Roleplay - Atleast for roleplay (and perhaps "unofficial offices")...

Domestic - Office of Labor (oversees city tiles), Office of Infrastructure (oversees infrastructure and resources).

Military - Office of Army/Navy/Airforce

and so on.

Chieftess · Dec 8, 2006

Ginger_Ale said:
Seperate polls would also be more confusing when referring to different options. Having to post in 5+ threads just to discuss some things that are all related? An honestly, if you want to discuss it more in-depth, that's why we still have the discussion thread. This is more just so people can see who-voted-for-what in one location.

BTW, you voted "Governor controls all cities" and then "5 cities maximum". You realize that "Governor controls all cities" means that you can't have a maximum number he controls.

Also, if you wanted to use the DP Pool, why didn't you just vote for "Designated Player Pool plays the save"?

By DP, you mean the President, not the DP pool, correct?

"Designated Player", which would start off with the president.

Oldschool term. :old:

Octavian X · Dec 8, 2006

Leave the cities in the care of the Domestic Minister! So very often, we've had a preponderance of elections for provinces we just can't find people to play for. On top of that, we need good coordination, assigning cities for production, science, GPP, etc. Domestic should be able to appoint advisers to assist him with the cities if necessary.

ravensfire · Dec 9, 2006

Ginger_Ale said:
BTW, you voted "Governor controls all cities" and then "5 cities maximum". You realize that "Governor controls all cities" means that you can't have a maximum number he controls.

Of course - I got a completely different read on those options that you did. Sorry - live with my votes.

Also, if you wanted to use the DP Pool, why didn't you just vote for "Designated Player Pool plays the save"?

I explained my option in my post. Not sure why there's a question here ... :crazyeye:

-- Ravensfire

Chieftess · Dec 9, 2006

Octavian X said:
Leave the cities in the care of the Domestic Minister! So very often, we've had a preponderance of elections for provinces we just can't find people to play for. On top of that, we need good coordination, assigning cities for production, science, GPP, etc. Domestic should be able to appoint advisers to assist him with the cities if necessary.

We can do that if there's not enough governors.

So, it's...

Provinces - Priority to the governor.
If there is no governor, the Domestic Advisor takes over until a governor can be appointed.

Just like old times.

Ginger_Ale · Dec 9, 2006

ravensfire said:
Of course - I got a completely different read on those options that you did. Sorry - live with my votes.

I explained my option in my post. Not sure why there's a question here ...

-- Ravensfire

Alright, no problem. I take it that you prefer the 5 city proposal of DaveShack...

Chieftess said:
We can do that if there's not enough governors.

So, it's...

Provinces - Priority to the governor.
If there is no governor, the Domestic Advisor takes over until a governor can be appointed.

Just like old times.

Yeah, that works for me. We should probably also have the Domestic Advisor in charge of determining provinces' sizes (if we go with the "Individual Number per Governor" option)...

Chieftess · Dec 9, 2006

Works for me, too. Maybe we should have a set size for provinces -- obviously a bit lower than it was in Civ3 given the nature of city placement and the fact that maps tend to be a bit smaller. (Maps equivalent to large/huge would ruin some people's PCs)

DaveShack · Dec 9, 2006

Well, there are a lot of very inconclusive results so far. Several "undervotes" where the options making up a set have some people not voting for anything within that set. :crazyeye:

Black_Hole · Dec 9, 2006

I voted other for executive offices, so here is my idea:

We have four main leaders:
1. President
2. Foreign Minister
3. Domestic Minister
4. Military Minister

Then it would be possible to create new positions that are under one of the above ministers, in one of the following ways:
1. A minister gives an official decree
2. 60% of the people vote for it

For example:
The domestic minister could decide to create a minster incharge of workers and infrasture
This minister would then have complete control of the area given to him/her by the minister

A sub minister can be fired in the same way as he/she is elected, minister decree or 60% vote...

If this was the case, we wouldn't need governors, but I still voted for a governor system since I don't think anyone will like this idea

GenMarshall · Dec 9, 2006

I have to go with the traditonal method. As for Deputies, I voted yes and should be choesn based on who gets second place in the polls (provided that it is a contested elections). Uncontested officals can pick their deputies.

RegentMan · Dec 13, 2006

Chieftess said:
Governors - Give them a certain area.

The only other option I voted.

CivGeneral said:
I have to go with the traditonal method. As for Deputies, I voted yes and should be choesn based on who gets second place in the polls (provided that it is a contested elections). Uncontested officals can pick their deputies.

That would create problems. One set of officials can pick who they want, yet another set is bound by whomever loses?

DaveShack · Dec 13, 2006

As for me, I'll only offer a deputy position to someone who runs against me in the election. If you don't want the position enough to at least try to win the top spot, then you don't deserve a position at all.

ice2k4 · Dec 13, 2006

As for me, I'll only offer a deputy position to someone who runs against me in the election. If you don't want the position enough to at least try to win the top spot, then you don't deserve a position at all.

And thats your personal policy, why force it on everyone else?

If I have two people running against me, I rather take the one who shares my personal views on the position, not necessarily the one who stole more votes from me.

Black_Hole · Dec 13, 2006

If we have deputies be the runner-up, we would have to take away the office holder's right to fire his deputy, which removes control of his office from him.

GeorgeOP · Dec 13, 2006

What about getting rid of officail deputies and just mentioning that office holders may appoint deputies if they so choose. The Domestic Advisor can be in charge of all cities and appoints whomever and however many governors he wants. The same can be said of the Forign Minister, etc.

DaveShack · Dec 14, 2006

Black_Hole said:
If we have deputies be the runner-up, we would have to take away the office holder's right to fire his deputy, which removes control of his office from him.

Not necessarily. The two actions, becoming a deputy and removing a deputy, wouldn't need to be linked in the law. Having an official be able to fire a deputy is pretty rare in the DG, in fact I'm not sure if we've ever done it.

GeorgeOP said:
What about getting rid of officail deputies and just mentioning that office holders may appoint deputies if they so choose. The Domestic Advisor can be in charge of all cities and appoints whomever and however many governors he wants. The same can be said of the Forign Minister, etc.

I don't think many would agree with the domestic advisor appointing governors. The option of having no deputies was offered as part of this poll, and it has been rejected by a large margin.

We need to do a much better job this time around of assigning duties of vacant positions to other offices.

[DG2] Offices Poll

Read the post first!

Deputies - Yes

Deputies - No

If Yes to Deputies - Runner-up in election

If Yes to Deputies - Appointed by Official-elect

President plays the save

Designated Player Pool plays the save

Chain of Command plays the save

Other (explain in post)

Officials - President, Domestic, Trade & Foreign, Military, Technology, Religion & Civic

President, Explor. & Settlmnt.,Foreign Affrs. & Trade,Sci. & Infrastruct.,Culture & Rel.,Mil.

Officials - President, Domestic, Military, Infrastructural

Officials - Other (explain in post)

Judiciary - 1 Chief Justice

Judiciary - 3 Justices (Chief Justice, Judge Advocate, Public Defender)

Justices - Other (explain in post)

Governors in Charge of All Cities - Yes

Governors in Charge of All Cities - No

If No to Governors [...] - 5 Cities Maximum

If No to Governors [...] - An individual number for each Governor (voted upon by the citizens)

If No to Governors [...] - Other (explain in post)

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