Trade missions should be easier

Bast · Dec 25, 2006

Look at what other Great people's special skills can do:

Engineer can just go into your city of choice and build a wonder.

Scientist can just go into your city of choice and build an academy.

Artist can just go into your city of choice and create a work of art.

Prophet can just go into your holy city of choice and build a shrine.

But a merchant must go into a foreign country (with whom you're not at war with) as far away from your country and in their most wealthiest city to do a trade mission that would give back the most.

So something's gotta give here. It's gotta be easier for the merchant to conduct a trade mission.

My thinking is that it should be invisible to all other rival civs so it can conduct a trade mission even in countries that you're at war with. But this would mean that all GP should be invisible but the others it doesn't matter because as if you'd let them go into enemy lands anyway.

And possibly make the payoff from trade greater. I usually get 2500-3000 but I don't think it's enough for all that investment in time and resources to get the merchant to the foreign city.

Thoughts?

Chazcon · Dec 25, 2006

I think you've lost your mind. How about a single button that you push to automatically win the game?

Of course, you'd have to push it twice on Deity, that might be a problem for you...

playshogi · Dec 25, 2006

What he is saying is that we every other GP you CAN push a button to execute that person's special project. But with a GM you have to micromanage a route to earn gold. At least, there should be a report of how much it can get at each city, rather than the player having to go city by city (with his vulnerable GM) to find out. I think the amount of gold received is OK, but finding out which city is the biggest prize ought to be known in advance of the journey.

Chazcon · Dec 25, 2006

I take exception to any complaints about any feature of any game being 'too hard'.

This leads quickly to 'dumbing down' the game, and I've watched this phenomenon absolutely ruin many great games over my years as a game enthusiast.

This type of lazy thinking must always be nipped in the bud.

Regarding this case, I cant help but to roll my eyes. I mean, really, how difficult is it to click Go to and then click on another civs capital city, or a black tile as far across the continent as you can reach. You might have to click again when the trader reaches that tile, to get him in the largest city you can find. PLUS, he actually performs a very nice recon mission as he travels across the map.

Im sorry, this type of request sets my hair on fire.

Diamond · Dec 25, 2006

playshogi said:
...At least, there should be a report of how much it can get at each city...

With a merchant selected, if you hold down SHIFT and right click on a opponent's city, then hover over the trade mission button, you can see how much that trade mission will net. You can then cancel that order, and try it on another city, etc. So you can figure out which trade mission is best before you start moving.

Silver Marmot · Dec 25, 2006

I have to agree with Chazcon. Great Mechants are fine as it is.

All you have to do is find a city that will give a good amount of gold, and then tell your great merchant to move there. If you're at war with another civ on the same continent, then give the Great Merchant some protection. It's pretty easy.

If you use him well, you can easily get 3000 or 4000 gold. This means that you can rush a wonder with universal suffrage, run your science at 100% at a deficit for several turns, or upgrade your entire army. Quite a nice reward for a little micromanagement.

Besides, if Great Merchants were invisible, wouldn't people just use them as spies for civs they're at war with?

cf_nz · Dec 25, 2006

I have to disagree Bast, I think it's perfectly fine the way it is.

What Silver Marmot said.

ggganz · Dec 25, 2006

They are fine! The besgt part is that the can explore rival territory, so you don't need a open borders agreements to conduct a trade mission.

Panda · Dec 25, 2006

No, they are fine as they are.

Jet · Dec 26, 2006

Hmm. Comparing a trade mission to lightbulbing:

Wealth from trade mission (Normal, Standard) (from reading the code)

roughly === 500 + 100 * min(pop, distance)

precisely === 500 + 100 * TradeProfit
TradeProfit = min(pop/2, distance/2) * (TradeMultiplier &#37

TradeMultiplier = 100
+ trade route bonuses from buildings
+ (pop-10)*5 --- (size 10: zero, size 15: 25, size 20: 50)
+ 25 if connected to capital

Beakers from lightbulbing (Normal, Standard) (from another thread)

scientist: 1500 + 3/pop
other: 1000 + 2/pop

So, a mission to a decent city (size 15, Harbor) might get you 2000. In terms of raw wealth vs. raw beakers, the mission gets you more, even compared to a scientist. Of course, a wealth windfall is different from a beaker windfall. And yes, you have to get the merchant there. But it seems balanced.

Golly! I'm going to have to try sending a mission to the Temple of Artemis city!

Jet · Dec 26, 2006

I forgot about the explore rival territory ability. That's a pretty specialized use, but cool.

Jet · Dec 26, 2006

Diamond said:
With a merchant selected, if you hold down SHIFT and right click on a opponent's city, then hover over the trade mission button, you can see how much that trade mission will net.

That's badass. Thanks! How did you figure that out?

playshogi · Dec 26, 2006

Jet said:
Golly! I'm going to have to try sending a mission to the Temple of Artemis city!

Isn't there a cap on the amount of gold you can receive? It seems that I sent my GM to a larger city and further away and the amount of gold was the same.

Jet · Dec 26, 2006

playshogi said:
Isn't there a cap on the amount of gold you can receive? It seems that I sent my GM to a larger city and further away and the amount of gold was the same.

If I got the formula right, there is a cap in the min(pop/2,distance/2) part, but the Harbror/Artemis multiplier is applied no matter what.

Jet · Dec 26, 2006

I can confirm that the Temple of Artemis does indeed uber-ize trade missions. Cities on the other side of the world are offering around 2400, but the relatively close Timbuktu, size 21 with Artemis, is offering 4650 on Standard/Epic. :banana:

Bast · Dec 26, 2006

Jet said:
I can confirm that the Temple of Artemis does indeed uber-ize trade missions. Cities on the other side of the world are offering around 2400, but the relatively close Timbuktu, size 21 with Artemis, is offering 4650 on Standard/Epic.

Huh? I thought TOA was only for trade route yields? Not missions?

Jet · Dec 27, 2006

Look again at the formula I gave: it shows trade route buildings as a factor in the yield for trade missions.

Arlborn · Dec 27, 2006

Jet said:
I can confirm that the Temple of Artemis does indeed uber-ize trade missions. Cities on the other side of the world are offering around 2400, but the relatively close Timbuktu, size 21 with Artemis, is offering 4650 on Standard/Epic.

Now that is cool! Thanks for the information

paperchase417 · Dec 29, 2006

I enjoy a trade mission.

Load him up onto a ship and send him half way around the world, quite probably discovering or making contact with new civs in the process, and finally the pay dirt, which I've never been under 1800 for. Its kinda romantic to me. Just apply some imagination.

Collier20 · Dec 29, 2006

This may already be the case, but if it is not, I think it should be so.

The Great Merchant can ignore close/open borders and go wherever he wants to. Of course going into the terr. of a civ you are currently at war with would result in the GM being attacked and killed. In addition, I think after the trade mission is complete, all items the civ has to trade should be available for trade (ie nothing is in red). This could be the result of a very nice "our trade relations have been fair" bonus. I dont want to create an uber SE, so maybe reduce the amount of gold you get to balance things out. I just think that historically and in the game trade has improved the relations of countries and I think the GM should reflect this.

Trade missions should be easier

Protector of Cats

Prince

Emperor

Prince

Chieftain

Warlord

Prince

a.k.a. The Scyphozoa

Metal head

No, no, please. Please.

No, no, please. Please.

No, no, please. Please.

Emperor

No, no, please. Please.

No, no, please. Please.

Protector of Cats

No, no, please. Please.

Legendary Noob

Warlord

Warlord

Similar threads