Spain Takes the Low Road

Spain Takes the Low Road.

Welcome to Immaculate’s second flavour challenge.

Some readers may be familiar with the first in the Flavour Challenge series, “Pilgrimage to Mecca” where the goal was to establish a 5-headed religious hydra and have the entire world performing Hajj. The game ended with an unexpected domination victory (stupid Cyrus) prior to completely developing the full potential of the hydra but I was happy to just get all five shrines up and running.

In this flavour challenge, I aim to take Spain on the low-road. In most of my own games, I tend to focus on the civil-service, paper, education route to liberalism, making liberalism a very important landmark in the tech-tree; that is to say, I take the high-road. This game aims to prioritise the low-road, something I don’t often do in my solo games and something that many succession games do not do as well (obviously there are some exceptions). Prioritising the low-road of techs led me to the choice of leaders. Isabella has a unique unit that is found in the heart of the low end of the tech-tree, the conquistador. I recently played Spain in a Succession Game and got to use the conquistador for the first time and really enjoyed it. I am looking forward to repeating the experience. Therefore, because of the placement of the unique unit and because I enjoyed playing with this unit so much in the past, I choose Spain.

The game will be played at Monarch difficulty; lately I have been playing Emperor level (losing and winning in about equal proportions) but since I am so out of my element by focusing on the low road, I will play at Monarch difficulty (where I still lose sometimes anyway).

I will be playing an Archipelago map (the last flavour challenge was pangea and I thought we should try something different). All other conditions will be standard.

Here are the settings.


Here is my starting position. I have not yet moved the warrior.

The start is very food rich and would make an excellent great-person farm, even early on. It also has a lot of forests to chop. Unfortunately, if we build in place, we would lose the only hammer producing tile, the wooded forest. So, perhaps its best to consider alternative start positions. It may be best to move the settler one south-west and build Madrid on the plains tile there but we would lose a floodplain and gain two desert tiles (they look like desert tiles anyway. Alternatively, we could move the settler one north and build there, losing the fish and one turn but allowing us to work the hill. To help make the decision I decide to move the settler one north-west and the warrior one south-west. This means that we won’t be building Madrid on turn zero.

Here is what is revealed.

1. This position revealed more tiles which are useful overall and it would be a stronger candidate in the late game. Pros: It gets the 3rd floodplain (and maybe a fourth or is that dessert?). This is a very strong candidate for a Great Person farm. Someone say Spain on a lake?
2. This position gets less overall useful tiles, an important consideration in the late game because it picks up a desert hill and a desert tile. It does seem to have more production potential with the plains hill to the south-west.

Production potential wins out and I choose to build at position two.

Madrid is founded on turn one at position two. Obviously when the second clam is revealed I am quite pleased with the choice. Research is set to mining. I want to get production up and that means we need mining and bronze-working. These techs, incidentally, are required for guilds. What? No religion, as Spain, even knowing that guilds requires monarchy which requires the religious line of techs? Well, I could have done that, but I want production up first. This is a flavour challenge and that means its about trying new things, so lets focus on something other then religion even though we are Isabella near water.


Once Madrid’s boundaries expand, I switch from working the forested grassland hills to the forested plains hill. The faster we can get the workboat out, the faster we can get some real growth out of Madrid. Mining completes, and, as was planned, we set research to bronze-working.

The workboat completes and is sent to net the fish. I set Madrid to emphasize food and begin work on a warrior. Once Madrid grows to size two, I shuffle the second citizen around and realize that I can time Madrid’s production of a warrior with growth to size three. I do so. Skipping a worker to build a workboat worked out okay this time but I don’t normally do this. Once it grows to size three, I have it build a settler. I very rarely skip building a worker before I build a settler (in fact, I don’t think I have ever done that), but we might as well take advantage of the fish and floodplains. In retrospect, skipping the worker first to get a settler out first would mean that we could have fairly safetly pursued a religion, but alas, should have, could have, would have doesn't count for a heck of a lot.

On turn 19, we pop our first hut and get a scout and on turn 21, we pop another scout for a map. People sometimes complain about popping maps and sure, they are sort of disappointing compared to a free tech, but they are useful for choosing future city placement occasionally so I don’t complain.

Soon enough we develop bronze-working and I set research to sailing. I’ll explain my choice for the tech path at the end of this post.

On turn 25, one warrior (the one we built, not the starting one) fights the first battle of the Spanish empire. In the same year, we also make contact with the Egyptians (neither Buddhist nor Hindu). Soon afterwards we lose the starting warrior to a lion (despite being on a hill) which really sucks.

We finish researching sailing and Madrid’s settler will be done in one turn. Here is a look at our island. I’ve rotated the tiles so that the pictures would fit better but north is marked and one should be able to follow the island’s lay-out.


Here is a look inside Madrid. Note that it has no Mr. Garrison.

This is a good point to end the first session.

My medium-term goals are to tech to guilds and take over a few islands the size of the one I am on now. The island itself is fairly well-sized and could be filled with about a dozen or so cities prior to that, so perhaps we will make the conquistador war our first. That means that our shorter term goals are to settle the island as we tech towards guilds. I am aiming for two key early wonders in this game. The first is the great lighthouse and the second is the oracle. I want the great lighthouse to allow the Spanish to settle their island with a minimum of difficulty arising from economic woes. The great lighthouse is a wonder that works better the more (coastal) cities you have. I tend to think of it as a free courthouse in every city (especially in conjunction with harbours- remember: these are cheap for the Spanish). So, we will use the great lighthouse to assist in the settling strategy. The oracle is to get a springboard advance along the ‘low-path’ of techs. I intend to either take either Monarchy or Metal Casting. Normally I would take Metal Casting without thinking about it, but Monarchy is very intriguing because Hereditary rule, along with our expansionist trait, would allow us to grow quite large quite early. The bigger a city is, the more money it makes from trade routes. So Hereditary Rule, in conjunction with the expansionist trait and the great lighthouse has a three-way synergistic effect. The other thing to consider is that if we build the great lighthouse prior to the oracle (assuming that they are in different cities), we can use the great merchant generated thereby to light bulb metal casting. Here’s an excerpt from the great person list.

Great Merchant:

1. Currency
2. Banking
3. Economics
4. Corporation
5. Metal Casting
6. Code of Laws
7. Mining
8. Constitution
9. Wheel
10. Pottery
11. Sailing
12. Paper
13. Railroad
14. Industrialism
15. Monarchy
16. Civil Service
17. Guilds
18. Fascism
19. Mass Media
20. Agriculture
21. Writing
22. Mathematics
23. Printing Press
24. Flight
25. Machinery

As you can see, we could use the great merchant to lightbulb metal casting while teching towards feudalism (assuming we nab monarchy with the oracle).

Those are the medium-term goals. In terms of short term goals, the settler produced next turn needs a home and it needs a home with high production potential so that it can build the oracle quickly. Currently I am considering the fish/bronze/sheep spot north of Madrid, but I am not yet 100% convinced. The other option is near the corn and hills to the south of Madrid. This will have greater production from the hill mines and the corn will allow us to work all those mines without fear of starvation. I want Madrid to build a lighthouse after the settler and start on the great lighthouse but it may be worth building a worker prior to that (probably right after the settler). Also, one must consider the production of defence for Madrid and the second city. Lastly, tech path. We need masonry for the great lighthouse but maybe we can get a tech (or two) towards priesthood along the way... If we decide to take metal casting from the oracle then we need the wheel and pottery as well. This would also let us make use of the floodplains near Madrid more effectively as well....

I welcome any posters’ suggestions as to how to proceed and I hope you enjoyed the first instalment of the flavour challenge. I had considered posting the second instalment of the flavour challenge in the strategy section like the Emperor and Monarch Master’s Challenges (excellent reads by the way), but I doubt I will be able to play or post as quickly as them and people might get impatient with the speed of play. None-the-less, I hope that people are as willing to post here as they were therein.

This looks good, can't wait to see more

I have gotten feudalism of oracle on imortal. It should be doable here too...

Ambitious goals and I like the change in playstyle.

I think you will have a tough go of it to get the second city to produce the Oracle if you place it by the Fish/Sheep/Bronze as you limit the hammer and food production. Your only positive food production would come from the sheep after you pasturize them.

The fish are useless until you get a culture pop which wont happen until you build the Oracle so your best bet to help keep the city growing is to farm the river plains. Which then cuts into your mining and pasturizing the sheep. But since you dont plan to build a worker, Im not sure how you plan on achieving the goal with the northern city.

But Im interested if you do pick the northern city if you can get the Oracle built.

Hmmm... maybe i wasn't very clear.
I DO intend to build a worker (or two), but i just wanted my second city up first. Chopping is a big part of my plan.

I've been sort of thinking of building the city between the gems and the corn south of Madrid. I would build a monument ASAP, then start the oracle and chop two forests. Without irrigating the corn i can work all three grass-land mines but i really don't know if i can get the oracle out before someone else does.... in fact, it seems like a long-shot gamble (but hey, its not a succession game of the month where other players might also suffer). What i am not sure about is whether i should bother researching agriculture or not. If i research agriculture then i can farm the corn and grow faster and start on the hills faster. But researching agriculture could slow down getting to priesthood and writing (required to get monarchy). Oh... the decisions..... any thoughts or help as to wether to get agriculture or not would be appreciated.

Spain Takes the Low Road: Second Instalment

The dilemma at this point is how to get the oracle after the great lighthouse but before the other civilizations get it. There are a few elements which need to be considered.

1. Research: Prior to beginning the great lighthouse I need to research masonry. Prior to beginning the oracle, I need to research meditation and priesthood.
2. Production: I have not yet found any marble on the map and even if I do I don’t think I am in a position to move a settler to claim it and still build the two wonders, therefore I must complete them using unassisted production, forest chops, and slavery. To make use of the hills (mines) and forests (chops), I need a worker. I intend to build two. I also need to build a lighthouse in Madrid.
3. Tile Improvements I need to maximize production around Madrid, which means a food-positive tile, the plains hill mine, the grassland hills mine and 2 forests (happy cap is 5 currently). Depending on where the second city is founded, I will need to maximize production for size 4 while getting up to that size as quickly as possible.

So, the immediate decision is where to found Spain’s second city. I’ve decided to settle on the plains tile to the south-west of Madrid which will allow these two cities to share some resources and which, importantly, allows the city to work the important tiles without a cultural boundary expansion and to work a high-food tile (clams) without researching agriculture.

At the beginning of this turn set, I set research to meditation. I will research meditation and priesthood while getting the cities ready to build the oracle and great lighthouse respectively.

Madrid completes a settler and I set it to build a worker.

On turn 34, Barcelona is founded and begins working the plains hills forest tile to build a workboat as fast as possible while not growing. While it builds the workboat, we will try to complete research towards priesthood so that once it is complete we can start on the oracle immediately (or nearly so).

The first worker completes in Madrid and I set it to build a second one. Priesthood is researched the turn that Barcelona completes its workboat and it is set to build a warrior while growing with the food provided by the clams. This same turn, a barbarian archer also shows up. I’ve already recalled the exploring warrior, but this could be bad as I have a grand total of one warrior and one scout to protect my entire empire. This I why Barcelona is building a warrior and not the oracle. I got sort of scared.

Soon afterwards (with the help of a chop), Madrid completes a worker and begins work on a lighthouse. I pop another hut (I kept it for my scout) and surprise, surprise, it popped masonry (with one turn to go); what a tease. I almost rather a map of useless ocean. I set research to writing.

Madrid gets to size five, focuses on hammers, builds a lighthouse and starts on the great lighthouse on the same turn. Also on this turn Barcelona starts the oracle after completing a warrior.

Writing completes and I start the wheel on the way to pottery. I don’t think going monarchy to slingshot feudalism is possible and it would be nice to get a few cottages up around Madrid for after the lighthouse is built.

In 1440BC, the first part of our plan comes together and the great lighthouse is built in Madrid. We immediately gain 4 commerce (this will only get better, and better, and better). I set Madrid to build a galley to go meet other civilizations.

We complete researching pottery and I set research to alphabet. Very soon a barbarian archer threatens Madrid and just to be careful, I have our capital whip a warrior to protect it. As it turns out the archer is unable to defeat the first warrior and we needn’t have worried, but its better to be safe then sorry.

In 1200BC (turn 70), Barcelona completes the oracle and we revolt to hereditary rule. Twelve-hundred BC may have been a bit close, but as it was, it turned out alright. Maybe that was luck; I don’t know.

I set Barcelona to build a warrior. The military police will be required for our core cities and later it can be used to escort a settler.

That ends this session. The next objectives are simply to expand (if any viewers want to dot-map, that would be highly appreciated) while teching towards guilds. The galley (once built) will be set to go explore Egyptian lands in the hopes of meeting other civilizations (or circumnavigating). I would like to get gems and ivory connected for the happiness as soon as possible as well.

Here is a look at the Spanish starting island at the end of the second instalment. It shows Barcelona building a barracks but i decided to go with a warrior.

Spain Takes the Low Road: Third Instalment

So, the first two objectives have been completed. We have completed the great lighthouse and we have completed the oracle. Now we need to take full possession of this island by settling it. I tend to highly specialize my cities. Madrid looks like it would make a great commerce centre while Barcelona is a functional production centre already. The next cities need to either bring happiness/health to the empire or establish a Great Person Points (GPP) centre. In addition to taking over our island, we also need to establish contact with foreign powers. To that end, Madrid will continue building a galley and set it to sail through Egyptian waters.

On turn 73 (1030BC), Madrid completes a galley and begins the pyramids. I am only building the pyramids because the hammers invested in it do not degrade and I get a tiny bit of cash back when someone else builds them. Madrid is actually just growing. Once it gets to its happiness limit (two turns), it will focus on a settler. Barcelona builds a warrior and starts a worker on the same turn that Madrid begins work on a settler. Barcelona completes its worker and starts on a settler. We finish alphabet and start on iron working to clear some of the jungle to the south and allow for us to hook up the gems and ivory found therein.

Seville is founded and starts on a library. It is destined to become our civilization’s great-person producing city.


Iron working completes and we start agriculture. It is required for Seville and for Barcelona. Hatsheput will not trade with us (all her techs are red) because we only know her or she only knows us- not sure how that works exactly). Agriculture completes and we start hunting.
Madrid completes another settler and starts on an axeman while growing. Hunting completes and we start work on animal husbandry. Barcelona completes its settler and starts on a lighthouse (it’s food situation isn’t that great).

In 500BC (turn 95), Corboda is founded. Its founding nets us ivory and has several gem deposits within its large cross, making it an excellent potential commerce city. Animal husbandry completes and we set research to feudalism. In turn 450BC (turn 97), Toledo is founded. It is set to build a granary. While Corboda will be used as a commerce city, Toledo will be used as a minor production city.



Madrid completes an axeman and starts a settler. Barcelona completes its lighthouse and starts a settler. Madrid completes that settler and starts another. Seville completes its library and starts running 2 scientists. Santiago is founded and starts a granary. At this point Spain consists of six cities but can none-the-less run at 70% science despite not having either currency or code-of-laws.

Toledo completes a granary and begins putting together the military police required to grow our small empire. Barcelona completes a settler and begins a forge in the hopes of getting the colossus.

In 50BC (turn 113), Harkuf is born in Madrid and used to research metal-casting.


The next great person is due in 31 turns in Seville and will be a scientist. I plan to use him to research machinery. Here is the great scientist tech preference. As you can see, if I research mathematics, compass and calendar and do not open up techs leading to paper, I should be able to use him to research machinery for me. So I have 31 turns to acquire (trade or research) mathematics, compass, and calendar.




Great Scientist:

1. Writing
2. Mathematics
3. Scientific Method
4. Physics
5. Education
6. Printing Press
7. Fiber Optics
8. Computers
9. The Wheel
10. Philosophy
11. Chemistry
12. Fission
13. Fusion
14. Optics
15. Paper
16. Astronomy
17. Biology
18. Electricity
19. Flight
20. Genetics
21. Compass
22. Satellites
23. Sailing
24. Alphabet
25. Calendar
26. Medicine
27. Ecology
28. Iron Working
29. Metal Casting
30. Engineering
31. Steam Power
32. Liberalism
33. Agriculture
34. Masonry
35. Bronze Working
36. Machinery
37. Gunpowder
38. Refrigeration
39. Rocketry
40. Fishing

In 1 AD, Seville finishes its granary and starts work on a workboat. Right on time, Christianity is founded this year as well (could that be any more perfect?)

At this point, Spain has six cities, a settler on its way to a future city site (marked #1 on the map below) and a settler in production. Barcelona just whipped a forge and is on its way towards the colossus (start production next turn). Hatsheput is now willing to trade with us but only wants monarchy and metal-casting. I suspect that she managed to find another trading partner so I want to find that trading partner too before I start trading with her.

Here is a look at our empire at the turn of the millennia.

I’ve left the sign-posts that I’ve been using to remind myself where I want to found cities (and in what order). Once they are all founded I will focus on growing my cities large and getting a conquistador (and catapult) army ready. At some point I will also require code-of-laws to build a forbidden palace in Thebes (or divine right for Versailles).

Keep it up

Thanks.
I find playing like this forces me to really consider all the small decisions and play with a high degree of precision. But, for that reason, i have to play pretty slow.
Again, thanks for reading.

I know you are busy in the SGOTM but I really would like to see follow up of this as this is very interesting how this will turn out. Keep it up.

Alright Kill, i now have the next installment. I had it for a bit, i just hadn't done an analysis too much yet. So thanks for the ecouragement, and here's part FOUR of 'Spain Takes the Low Road'. You'll see that Spain may have aimed a bit too high

Spain Takes the Low Road: Fourth Instalment

This turn-set has 3 priorities:

1. City Establishment I want to establish three new cities, preferably with good production potential so that once guilds and construction are made available, they can make an army.
2. Research After trying to determine when the great scientist was due vis-à-vis our general research rate, it was found that the only way to be able to use him for machinery would be to run caste-system which would make philosophy the preferred target for light-bulbing or by using a philosophical civilization. Obviously neither can be used in this case, so I will be researching machinery directly and using the great scientist for optics.
   Following machinery, I want to tech directly to guilds to get an army together. It looks like poor Hatsheput will be facing the conquistador army as she is the closest target.
   Only once guilds (and conquistadors) are finished will we return our attention to code-of-laws and currency in an attempt to strengthen our economy (once this is complete, we can continue to expand horizontally).
3. Trade The exploring galley will continue in its effort to find Hatsheput’s trading partners so that we can get involved in the trading action too.

At the beginning of the turn-set we complete feudalism and because slavery isn’t needed right now and spiritual lets us return to it when we need it, I adopt serfdom. We begin research towards machinery. We also begin construction of the colossus in Barcelona.

In 75AD, we found our newest city, Salamanca, which has fair production capacity (for a water map).


In 125AD, Murcia is founded Once calendar is developed, this will also make a great little production city.

In 150AD, the Arabian civilization is destroyed. We’ll find out who is responsible soon enough I would guess. Poor Saladin; he’s my favourite leader to play.

In 275AD, our exploring galley meets Hatsheput’s trading partner and we initiate some trades of our own. This nets us an immediate +4 diplomatic modifier because we traded with him on the first turn of meeting him. This would not have been worthwhile if Hatsheput and him were worse enemies (in which case we would get a -4 penalty with her) but because they get along, its fine.
Potentially, I could incur a -4 trade modifier with another civilization who also knows him but I need friendly relations with whoever is controlling the range of my trade routes at this point (remember, we have an economy pretty much dependent on trade routes and cottages). I don’t necessarily want to be friends with whoever is beyond Ghandi because Hatty’s and Ghandi’s trade routes are more important.


In 350AD, the colossus is completed.


In 450AD, we complete work on machinery and set research to guilds. We also meet Washington of the Americans and set to trade with him as well. Unfortunately, he will not trade any technologies immediately. He does possess code-of-laws and appears to be the founder of Confucianism. Despite being only 1 tile away from Ghandi, Washington has not yet made contact with Ghandi and won’t trade any technologies away. I’ll have to watch him each turn to take advantage of tech trading as quickly as possible. Speaking of trading, I trade metal casting to Ghandi and Hatsheput for Calendar, Literature and Monotheism. Ghandi was on the way to finishing its research so I didn’t get a lot from him for it. Calendar is an important tech because its above machinery (but not optics) on the preference list for great scientists.




In 475, Spain completes its horizontal development (for now) with the founding of Valencia. Though it has some potential as a production city with the forests and copper, it will only be used early on as a production city and latter will be specialized towards commerce.



In 680AD, a great scientist is born in Seville but he is put to sleep for now until we research compass. In 740AD, we finish work on guilds and set research to compass. Unfortunately, we are unable to build conquistadors because that requires horse-back riding. I notice that Hatsheput has developed machinery so I set research to horse-back riding and trade machinery to the Indians for compass. This lets us use the great scientist to discover optics. I also revolt to vassalage and slavery. The time for infrastructure has come to an end. Its now time to build an army (and whip a caravel to go visit the rest of the world).

Originally I was not impressed about the late date for both guilds and optics considering the plans for great scientists, but after some reflection, I realize I screwed up but recovered alright. Optics will let us meet the murderous CIV who defeated the Arabs and trade with them happily.
Additionally, we may have a better production capacity at this point and should be able to spit out many conquistadors, albeit the land conditions limit that somewhat.

I had set out goals for myself:

1. City Establishment
   I want to establish three new cities, preferably with good production potential so that once guilds and construction are made available, they can make an army.
   I did complete this goal. Although I am not completely sure they can make an army yet.
2. Research
   After doing the math to determine when the great scientist was due vis-à-vis our general research rate, it was found that the only way to be able to use him for machinery would be to run caste-system which would make philosophy the preferred target for light-bulbing or by using a philosophical civilization. Obviously neither can be used in this case, so I will be researching machinery directly and using the great scientist for optics.
   This wasn’t the original plan and it threw me off a bit. The scientist came much latter then I had anticipated. This IS a difference with taking the low road because normally I would have assumed caste system and pacifism some time ago. In fact, the Spaniards could have been running caste system if they had not researched meditation. I actually knew that but completely forgot. The best way to avoid pacifism light-bulbing a scientist is to cut off code of laws or meditation, but if had code-of-laws, I could have run caste-system for more scientists and researched machinery faster.
   The up-side is optics which go well with this map. If the Spaniards could circumnavigate, that would be a great coup for their small empire.
   Following machinery, I want to tech directly to guilds to get an army together. It looks like poor Hatsheput will be facing the conquistador army as she is the closest target.
   Only once guilds (and conquistadors) are finished will we return our attention to code-of-laws and currency in an attempt to strengthen our economy (once this is complete, we can continue to expand horizontally).
   Its definitely time to build courthouses once our army is in place.
3. Trade
   The exploring galley will continue in its effort to find Hatsheput’s trading partners so that we can get involved in the trading action too.
   We got quite a bit of trading completed and have established some very lucrative trade-routes for our many cities.

Except the great scientist, everything went sort of as planned and objectives were met. I had sort of assumed we would be able to trade for horse-back riding… I guess I was wrong.
Next we will annex Egypt and build the forbidden palace in the heart of her home island. We’ll have to ensure to secure trade-routes with the Indians and Americans.

Thanks for reading. Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

Nice story so far. Especially without pacifism and caste system it becomes a totally other game. But now you can get your conquistador army up and running. Some world map shots, technology shots and city shots would be great. Keep going.

Actually, i can't.
I was cleaning out old games and screenshots and i deleted this save. I have the one from zero AD, but i am not sure how i feel about replaying from that save.
I was thinking i might just try it again in Warlords now and try to grab caste system without allowing philosophy to open up by not researching meditation.
Anyway, need to either replay that last set or set up a new version of this challenge.

Bummer, awaiting the replay. Good stuff.