Change England to Britain

Would you agree with changing the England civ name to Britain?

  • Yes

    Votes: 133 70.7%

  • No

    Votes: 55 29.3%
  • Total voters
    188
Talkie_Toaster

Talkie_Toaster

I toast, therefore I am
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
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Location
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I think that England should be changed to Britain, on the grounds that it is more historically accurate and doesn't leave the Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish out. After all, even anti unionists would think that being called British is better than being called English. We've started this discussion in v173 and v123W up thread.

EDIT: also, if you vote no, please try to explain why :P
 
I'm English meself and I'm in favour of it being Britain; not really familiar with the English empire on its own and besides - the land that is Wales and Scotland seems to be conquered quickly (and some what unrealistically) here.
 
Sometimes I forget that RFC has the 'English Empire' because in my version I changed it to the British Empire long ago. It should be a given change since it requires almost no effort, but I think there have been two threads on this in the past and as you can probably tell, it hasn't been implemented.

Edit: It says a lot that someone actively voted against it. :p
 
Let's just rename everyone so France is "The Blue Team" and Mali is "The Orange Team" then.
 
I think perhaps that perhaps some people aren't recognising the real tension of nominating everything to be "English".

Personally, I was born in England and I know of countless Welsh and Scottish friends who would be mortally outraged to be considered to be English.

The term is incorrect, historically and politically so modifying it to reflect reality is a very favourable course.

As the modification itself does nothing to detract from anyone's play and is in and of itself simple, I wonder why people would vote against it.

As requested in the original post: Can those voting "no" please post a reason why. Perhaps we are missing something you could elucidate on!

If you don't care, then don't vote!! :)
 
I think it's clear that the British Empire would be less historically offensive than the English Empire, while neither are perfect. Non-Brits rarely grasp the anger that using "English" incorrectly arouses.
 
I have to agree Enkidu_Warrior, as no one who posted "no" has given a reason why, it can only be assumed that the reason is a lack of cultural sensitivity or historical awareness regarding the British isles.

What's truly amazing is that there are a number of English people arguing for it - normally it is the non English Britons who are strong advocates of clarity on the issue! :)
 
The leader is english, the UU is english, the cities are english. As a consequence, my vote is no.
 
Psyringe said:
I don't care, it's just a name.
Click to expand...

Phallus said:
Let's just rename everyone so France is "The Blue Team" and Mali is "The Orange Team" then.
Click to expand...

Okay, you got a point there. I didn't make myself clear.

What I meant is that for me, both names are similarly (in)adequate, so I, personally, don't care whether it's called England or Britain in the game. I obviously wouldn't like "red team" or something like that because that's a bit far from the historic atmosphere of the game.

Btw, I didn't vote - I think this question should be settled between the people who are in some way affected or bothered by it, and I simply ain't.
 
The Persian Empire contained a lot of peoples who weren't Persian. Similarly for the 'Greek' Empire (under Alexander), the Roman Empire, the Russian Empire, and so on.

The Welsh were conquered, the Irish colonised. Sure, it was a 'union' with Scotland, but the Russians called their arrangement with Ukraine and others a 'union', too -- it's clear who was the dominating partner in both of these cases.

Thus, my vote for 'English'.
 
onedreamer said:
The leader is english, the UU is english, the cities are english. As a consequence, my vote is no.
Click to expand...

No, the leader is British, the UU is British and in this mod the cities are British.

It's also irrelevent as to how "equal" the Union was, the fact is that regardless of how the Scots, Welsh and Irish were treated, the Empire they were a part of was called the British Empire.
 
Another reason is that the name is closer to what the ancient inhabitants called themselves: Brettons.
 
Enkidu Warrior said:
No, the leader is British, the UU is British and in this mod the cities are British.
Click to expand...

well you know, with lies you're going to be right any time of the day... :rolleyes:
 
onedreamer said:
well you know, with lies you're going to be right any time of the day... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Lies? I'll not stoop down to your level.

Queen Victoria was the Queen of England, which was the head of state of the British Empire, not England, which didn't exist as a seperate political entity, much like it doesn't today.

Saying the Redcoats were English is just plain wrong. Lets count the references to England in wiki's Redcoat article: 0.

My final point was self-evident. In this mod, unlike the main game, the cities are British.

Disagree with me if you like, but there's hardly grounds to call me a liar.
 
Victoria is English. The fact that she was queen of the British Empire is not relevant IMO, and if anything it only proves once more how British Empire is just a name given in order to please the populations that at that time, english people considered inferior or a minority. Curiously, the fact that some people ask for the empire to be called GB in the game makes of this theme a contemporary one. Redcoats... well yeah saying redcoats were english is probably wrong. Though there's much to talk about how the army and formations were organized back then, isn't there ?
Finally, the only city not english in the city list is Cardiff, 1 on 20, so I suggest you base your considerations on facts and not impressions. For example the fact that England starts near Ireland, where Dublin sits, doesn't mean that they will necessarily be the civ that will conquer it, and anyways it does mean that since it's barbarian, it doesn't belong to the civ, which is, in fact, England.
 
The fact remains that, since Scotland and Wales aren't in the game, calling their cities 'conquered' by the English isn't really fair. Since adding them would be time consuming, slow the game down and unnecessary, renaming to Britain would be more accurate historically. I don't think the Irish take too kindly to being called barbarians. Also, the Scottish cities automatically flip to the British ruler from the (usually) Viking settlements, such as Inverness.
 
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