Scrivener

Scrivener

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
44
Hail. I am Scrivener. It's more of a title than a name, but to the nobility and leaders of my civilization it serves as both. A Scrivener, for those who are not familiar with the word, is a person who can read and write, with the responsibility of accurately recording historical events. Some civilizations would refer to me as a Scribe. In the upcoming days I will be telling the story of my people. Please understand that I will depend on folk tales, songs, pictures, and other non-written information to fill in the earliest periods of our civilization.

A loyal servant,
Scrivener

Editors note: Hi everyone. I have just purchased the basic Civ3, on-sale for a bargain price of $9.95. I was fortunate enough to review the official web site and then find Civilization Fanatics Center. Having read numerous sections within the forum I am looking forward to my first game. I also hope to provide a worthy account of my experiences and look forward to hearing your views, suggestions, and comments about my play. I expect to make alot of mistakes and will probably be miserably defeated by the AI oppontents, but more importantly, I look forward to learning alot as well.
 
Lord Dionysus is the leader of my people. He is viewed as the promoter of civilization, a lawgiver, and lover of peace. He is also known as Eleutherios (the Liberator). We, as a civilization, are known as Delians. It was Dionysus that persuaded us to transition from hunting and gathering to agriculture. These initial developments took place and changes to our Neolithic (nomadic) society spurred major social changes, including a high population density, the organization of a hierarchical society, specialization in non-agricultural crafts, a standing army, barter and trade, and the expansion of man’s “control” over nature. These journal entries retell the accounts of an early era of my people and our struggle to establish ourself as a legitimate civilization against the elements and potential enemies.

A loyal servant,
Scrivener

Editors note: Starting Setup. Map Size – Tiny. My Civ – American. Dif level – Chieftain. Everything else - Random.

Dionysus and his followers settled the small town of Delos in the Southwestern corner of the “New World”. There is Ivory and Game nearby, and a small village.

4000BC. Turn 1: Beaker set to 50%. Ceremonial Burial in 16 turns. Income 3g, Expenses (Science) 2g, Income 1g per turn. Growth in 10 turns. Production – Barracks in 14 turns. Worker moves east to forest with game (F2, S2, G0). Scout moves north to village. They teach us Bronze Working. Production changed to Spearman in 7 turns.

The immediate 8 tiles are as follows: 3 Grassland, 2 Bonus Grassland, 3 Forest (1 with ivory, 1 with game)

3950BC. Turn 2. Ceremonial Burial in 15 turns. Growth in 9 turns. Spearman in 6 turns. Worker to build road in 3 turns. Scout moves northwest.
3900BC. Turn 3. Cermonial Burial in 14 turns. Growth in 8 turns. Spearman in 5 turns. Worker to build road in 2 turns. Scout moves northwest.
3850BC. Turn 4. Cermonial Burial in 13 turns. Growth in 7 turns. Spearman in 4 turns. Worker to build road in 21 turns. Scout moves northwest.
3800BC. Turn 5. Cermonial Burial in 12 turns. Growth in 6 turns. Spearman in 3 turns. Worker completes road, to clear forest in 5 turns. Scout moves northwest along a coastline.
3750BC. Turn 6. Cermonial Burial in 11 turns. Growth in 5 turns. Spearman in 2 turns. Worker to clear forest in 4 turns. Scout moves north.
3700BC. Turn 7. Cermonial Burial in 10 turns. Growth in 4 turns. Spearman in 1 turns. Worker to clear forest in 3 turns. Scout moves north sees a village to the immediate east.
3650BC. Turn 8. Cermonial Burial in 9 turns. Growth in 3 turns. Spearman completed and moves north, Worker in 4 turns. Worker to clear forest in 2 turns. Scout moves east to village. They teach us Warrior Code.
3600BC. Turn 9. Cermonial Burial in 8 turns. Growth in 2 turns. Worker in 3 turns. Worker to clear forest in 1 turns. Scout moves north along coastline.
3550BC. Turn 10. Cermonial Burial in 7 turns. Income 4g, Expenses (Science) 2g, Income 2g per turn. Growth in 1 turns. Worker in 1 turns. Worker completes clear forest, to irrigate in 2 turns. Scout moves northwest along coastline.

Editors note: My thought process was simple in the first ten moves. Keep the beaker at 50% so I would advance adequately in Techs. I started to produce barracks because my growth was too slow to effectively produce a settler or worker without wasting turns. Having veteran military units might come in handy later. However, being taught Bronze Working on the very first turn allowed me to switch to a Spearman. This allowed my population to grow enough to build a worker without waste. My town is to the south so I chose to move my scout to the north. I’m moving my Spearman north as well in case my scout gets ambushed I will still have someone to explore the area until I can get another scout produced. Having found two villages seems to indicate no roaming barbarians and I’m risking the other civilizations won’t advance military units until later in the game when I should have produced at least one more spearman. Future entries won’t be as detailed and will be more journal/story-like. I will note that I read Experiment 626’s Solo TDG and couldn’t help notice how he had accomplished more than I.
 
Hail Scrivener! I look forward to your further expoits! Don't let other's abilities or accomplishments intimidate you, this is a game to be enjoyed. You can compete with others later in the many vehicles for that, but now is the time for learning so you can improve later.

A couple notes: I take it this is Civ3 vanilla, so much of what you read is different because almost everyone has conquests.

CB is not necessarily the best to research first, why did you pick it, so I understand your thinking.

It's very important to maximize your food production and make more settlers.

Just a suggestion for the future, if you are intending to chop the forest, chop it first and then make the road, it saves time that can be used to improve something else.
 
Hail. You are correct. I have only CivIII Vanilla. Having little knowledge and no experience I used time of completion as the determining factor for chosing Ceremonial Burial. This wasn't very scientific and it lacked insight but I did get lucky learning Bronze Working from a village on the first turn and Warrior Code on the eighth turn from another village.

Scrivener
 
Hail friends. Below are the details of my civilization's progress. I had previously written of turns 1 thru 10. Below you will find turns 11 thru 20. Our Scout revealed more of the world to us and we were contacted by the French. We included the Wheel and Ceremonial Burial to our technological advances. Our Workers built roads, cleared forests, and irrigated the land. Our Spearman is enroute to Paris, the capital, and only city of France. His mission is to assess their military strength. My leaders are contemplating military action if France appears to be less developed, and weaker, than us. We will be ready to settle a new town in the very near future. There is grain to our north. This should make a suitable location.

3500BC. Turn 11. Cermonial Burial in 6 turns. Growth in 7 turns. Worker(2) completed and moves north. Settler in 30 turns. Worker(1) to irrigate in 1 turn. Scout moves northwest along coastline. Spearman moves northwest. Border of Delos expands because of its culture.
3450BC. Turn 12. Ceremonial Burial in 5 turns. Growth in 6 turns. Worker(2) to build road in 2 turns. Worker completes irrigation and moves southwest. Scout moves northwest along coastline. Spearman moves northwest. France (polite) makes contact: asks for Warrior Code and 23g for Alphabet. I decline the offer at this time. I’ve decided to move my Spearman to Paris. Depending on what I see at the time I may take aggressive actions.
3400BC. Turn 13. Ceremonial Burial in 4 turns. Growth in 3 turns. Worker(2) to build road in 1 turn. Worker(1) to complete road in 2 turns. Scout moves north along coastline, into France territory. Spearman moves northwest. France (cautious) asks us to move our Scout.
3350BC. Turn 14. Ceremonial Burial in 3 turns. Growth in 2 turns. Worker(2) completes road, to irrigate in 2 turns. Worker(1) to complete road in 1 turn. Scout moves north, a village is directly north. Spearman moves northwest to the coastline.
3300BC. Turn 15. Ceremonial Burial in 2 turns. Growth in 1 turn. Worker(2) to irrigate in 1 turn. Worker(1) completes road, to irrigate in 2 turns. Scout moves north to village, then east along coastline. They teach us The Wheel. Spearman moves north along coastline.
3250BC. Turn 16. Ceremonial Burial in 1 turn. Growth in 7 turns. Worker(2) completes irrigation and moves southwest. Worker(1) to irrigate in 1 turn. Scout moves east along coastline. Spearman moves north along coastline.
3200BC. Turn 17. Ceremonial Burial complete, Mysticism in 22 turns. Growth in 6 turns. Worker(2) to clear forest in 5 turns. Worker(1) completes irrigation and moves north. Scout moves east along coastline. Spearman moves north along coastline.
3150BC. Turn 18. Mysticism in 21 turns. Growth in 5 turns. Worker(2) to clear forest in 4 turns. Worker(1) to build road in 2 turns. Scout moves east along coastline. Spearman moves north toward Paris.
3100BC. Turn 19. Mysticism in 20 turns. Growth in 4 turns. Worker(2) to clear forest in 3 turns. Worker(1) to build road in 1 turn. Scout moves northeast along coastline. Spearman moves north toward Paris.
3050BC. Turn 20. Mysticism in 19 turns. Income 6g, Expenses (Science) 3g, Income 3g per turn. Growth in 3 turns. Worker(2) to clear forest in 2 turns. Worker(1) completes road, to irrigate in 2 turns. Scout moves east along coastline. Spearman moves north toward Paris.
 
. . . Our Spearman is enroute to Paris, the capital, and only city of France. His mission is to assess their military strength. My leaders are contemplating military action if France appears to be less developed, and weaker, than us. . . .
Spearman moves northwest. France (polite) makes contact: asks for Warrior Code and 23g for Alphabet. I decline the offer at this time. I’ve decided to move my Spearman to Paris. Depending on what I see at the time I may take aggressive actions. . . .
Scout moves north to village, then east along coastline. They teach us The Wheel. . . .
Spearman moves north toward Paris. . . .

I pulled the above out of your turnlog. A couple of things come to mind: France has Alphabet. You want Alphabet. Why not see what you can trade them for it? Just because they wanted WC and 23g doesn't mean they won't take less. It might be worth trading them for it prior to removing them from the map.

You've got Warrior Code. That means archers. A spear is a defensive unit (1 attack, 2 defense, 1 move), but you've sent him on what may be an offensive mission . . . might some archers come in handy on that? Also keep defensive bonuses in mind should you decide to rid the world of the French.

The barbarian village taught you The Wheel. You can how see horses on the map. Take this into account on planning your next city location.

Good luck & keep us posted. :goodjob:
 
Based on your answer, Ceremonial Burial is not really a bad choice but, you should probably set research to zero (not now you already started, in the future) and send your scouts to get techs for you. That insures you will get a more expensive tech as in vanilla you always get the cheapest remaining next that you are not currently researching.
 
Hail everyone! Moves 21 thru 30 was sheer luck despite obvious newbie mistakes. I did as you mentioned, Aabraxen, and traded techs with France (just before attacking them). I realized, after completing my 30th move, I have only one military unit. I will be in big trouble if another civilization discovers my unprotected towns. I got focused on producing Settlers. Here is a break down of the moves.

3000BC. Turn 21. Mysticism in 18 turns. Growth in 2 turns. Worker(2) to clear forest in 1 turn. Worker(1) to irrigate in 1 turn. Scout moves southeast along coastline. Spearman moves north toward Paris.
2950BC. Turn 22. Mysticism in 17 turns. Growth in 1 turn. Worker(2) completes clear forest, to build road in 2 turns. Worker(1) completes irrigation, moves north. Scout moves southeast along coastline. Spearman moves north toward Paris.
2900BC. Turn 23. Mysticism in 23 turns. Growth in 5 turns. Settler completed and moves north. Settler in 30 turns. Worker(2) to build road in 1 turn. Worker(1) to build road in 2 turns. Scout moves southeast along coastline. Spearman moves north toward Paris.
2850BC. Turn 24. Mysticism in 22 turns. Growth in 4 turns. Worker(2) completes road, to irrigate in 2 turns. Worker(1) to build road in 1 turn. Settler moves north. Scout moves south along coastline. Spearman moves north toward Paris.
2800BC. Turn 25. Mysticism in 21 moves. Growth in 3 turns. Worker(2) to irrigate in 1 turn. Worker(1) completes road, moves north. Settler moves north. Scout moves south along coastline. Spearman moves north toward Paris. France (cautious) asks us to move our Spearman.
2750BC. Turn 26. Mysticism in 20 moves. Growth in 2 turns. Worker(2) completes irrigation, moves south. Worker(1) to build road in 2 turns. Settler builds the city of Soled 4 squares due north of Delos. Scout moves west along coastline. France accepts a trade of Alphabet and 10g for the Wheel. Spearman attacks is victorious against Paris. A new government is installed with no resistance. The French civilization has been utterly destroyed.
2710BC. Turn 27. The people offer to expand our Palace. With multiple cities I will no longer provide growth information, unless they stop growing. Mysticism in 8 turns. Worker(2) to build road in 2 turns. Worker(1) to build road in 1 turn. Scout moves west. Spearman fortifies Paris.
2670BC. Turn 28. Mysticism in 7 turns. Worker(2) to build road in 1 turn. Worker(1) completes road, moves north. Scout moves west.
2630BC. Turn 29. Mysticism in 6 turns. Worker(2) completes road, moves north to begin road project between Soled and Paris. Worker(1) to build road in 2 turns. Scout moves southwest.
2590BC. Turn 30. Mysticism in 5 turns. Income 12g, Expenses (Science) 5g, (Corruption) 4g, Income 3g per turn. Worker(2) moves north. Worker(1) to build road in 1 turn. Scout moves southwest.

I settled my second town next to a horse and wheat, four squares north of my first town. It wasnt until after I settled that I was able to see the coastline to the north (with fish). Oh well. Am I correct in assuming my first cultural growth will include that square?
 
Personally, I'd make some cities by those mountains in anticipation for when you get iron. Thats my nly current advice. And it was a good choice to get the alphabet from the French.
 
You won't get the fish, towns never get to use the second squares directly north, south, east, or west. The city radius is a fat x. Generally people try to avoid settling one square away from ocean, it leaves 3 pretty unproductive squares. The trick is to get used to using the very edges of the squares that are still blacked out to try to figure out what they could be. For example, I'm going to guess that the square 3 spaces south of Delos is an ocean square. I wouldn't sweat it now, you need to get more settlers out, and you're better off keeping the current position for now until you settle much more land.

Also, hook up the funky colored thing next to Soled by roading it. It'll keep people happy.

I wouldn't work too far north in terms of roading to Paris, just fill in the middle ground with cities, get one worker per city, and road those cities together. Try to keep your workers by cities until you have at least 6 fully finished squares per city (12 is the city is next to a river or a lake) before you send them away for such an extended time.

CxxxxC is not often used for city spacing. I prefer CxxxC or Cxxx½C for my core, and CxxC for cities far from my capital. There are a lot of theories with regards to city placement, and flame wars can get hot. RCP is the best for CivIII vanilla, IIRC.

Until you get either republic or monarchy (I prefer republic, though monarchy is easier in most ways), keep 2 spearmen in each city (or 1 warrior and 1 spearman). They keep people happy, and then you don't have to sweat it if barbarians arise (in other games, this one does seem sedate). Also, don't bother with mining hills or mountains until you are out of despotism (or close to it at least), and you have those other 6 squares for the city finished up.

But the only hard-and-fast rule is there are no hard-and-fast rules. And don't sweat the small things for now. Chieftan is a pretty forgiving level.

The main Civfanatics Civ III page 'war academy' has all kinds of great information, I can't recommend it enough.
 
. . . I realized, after completing my 30th move, I have only one military unit. I will be in big trouble if another civilization discovers my unprotected towns. . . .

I would operate on the assumption that they already know about them.

. . . France accepts a trade of Alphabet and 10g for the Wheel. Spearman attacks is victorious against Paris. A new government is installed with no resistance. The French civilization has been utterly destroyed.

Well done :goodjob: Nonetheless, I recommend sending (a) more than one unit; and (b) preferably offensive units next time.

. . . Oh well. Am I correct in assuming my first cultural growth will include that square?

Doesn't matter. It's outside your city radius. Even if it comes under your cultural control, you can't work the tile with the cities as you have them laid out. Another city will be required, and the fish may or may not be the ideal target. I haven't looked all that closely at your map, but there may be better spots for the long haul.
 
Thanks for the quick responses and information. I checked the War Academy. It will take me some time to read all the cool stuff on this site (that's good... better too much than not enough). City placement is definitely another weak point for me. I was hoping the city would grow to include the fish but thats a good lesson learned. Chieftain seems to be a great learning level. At a higher level I'm sure my mistakes would have really hurt. A loss to the French would have cost me my only military unit (what was I thinking) and they would have moved down with the same intent I had for them (utter destruction). So far this is a very fun game. I'm taking it slow as you can see (still on my first game since the 19th of Jan), but I've been checking out how others are playing and there is no end to the information.

Scrivener
 
One obvious (for Civ3-veterans) issue: don´t irrigate grasslands when in Despotism. That gouvernment eats up one food if the tile is producing more than 2. Meaning that irrigation of a normal grassland (or bonus-grassland) is NOT generating more food for your citizens.

Exceptions:
- if the grassland has a cow or wheat
- a game-forest. Chop the wood and irrigate the field like you did.
- you want to transfer water to some other location

When finally in Republik or Monarchy this rule no longer applies. But unless you have many mountains, one food-rich tile in a city is enough early in the game. Meaning: grasslands should NORMALLY be mined and plains should normally be irrigated.
Later in the game, if you want to use mountains and hills you will need more irrigated grasslands...
 
Hail everyone! Progress seemed extremely slow the past ten turns. However, my Settler is in place to start a new town on the next move. This will give me access to the coastline (ships, harbors, etc) and gems. It’s in the direction of Paris as I’m trying to develop the known world in that direction. I have an eerie feeling my Scout will soon run into the other civilizations to my east and they won’t like what I’ve done to the French. I can only hope my Spearmen will be ready. Once I get Horseback Riding I will produce a Horseman per town. This should help my defense and they can be deployed quicker should I be attacked.

2550BC. Turn 31. Mysticism in 3 turns.
2510BC. Turn 32. Mysticism in 2 turns.
2470BC. Turn 33. Mysticism in 1 turn.
2430BC. Turn 34. Mysticism complete, Horseback Riding in 9 turns. Adjusted beaker to 100% to complete tech quicker. Income is now breaking even.
2390BC. Turn 35. Horseback Riding in 7 turns. Road to horses completed.
2350BC. Turn 36. Horseback Riding in 8 turns. All three towns produce units (2 Workers, 1 Settler). Paris has a Spearman so I set it to produce a Settler. Delos and Soled will next produce Spearmen to defend those towns.
2310BC. Turn 37. Horseback Riding in 7 turns. My Settler will be moving northwest of Soled (next to coastline and newly discovered gems.
2270BC. Turn 38. Horseback Riding in 6 turns.
2230BC. Turn 39. Horseback Riding in 5 turns.
2190BC. Turn 40. Horseback Riding in 4 turns. Income 13g, Expenses (Science) 8g, (Corruption) 5g, Income 0g per turn. My Scout is now moving toward the east of my towns in hopes of uncovering more villages and discovering new civilizations. My workers are trying to develop the land and build a road to connect all the towns (Paris is quite a distance from my first settlements.

I noticed each time I produce a Settler the number of turns a tech will be completed is affected. I assume this is because I'm taking two citizens from their work. As I develop more military units in the towns will this reduce corruption?

A loyal servant,
Scrivener
 
I noticed each time I produce a Settler the number of turns a tech will be completed is affected. I assume this is because I'm taking two citizens from their work.

Yes. A settler takes 2 citizens from their "hometown." Once the settler's produced, that city suddenly begins generating less gold and less science than on the turn prior. When you plant the settler, one of them will go back to work and the turns until the next discovery will be readjusted.

As I develop more military units in the towns will this reduce corruption?

No. [Caveat: I don't play vanilla, so I could be wrong here.] Corruption is unaffected by the number of military units you've got in your towns, but is affected by the Forbidden Palace, courthouses, and police officers (a specialist you don't have access to yet).
 
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19922 is a post that explains corruption. You will always have corruption, it cannot be avoided. Government type affects corruption: despotism (the first government you can use) has very bad corruption issues. Democracy is supposed to have the least, but even in democracy you can have cities with nearly everything eaten up by corruption (in older versions of the game Democracy was corruption free, which was nice. Not so here.) Corruption is figured out two different ways, which are then added together. First, the distance to the capital is measured. Then the number of cities is calculated, the more cities you have the higher the corruption gets in new cities. A wonder called 'Forbidden Palace' increases how many cities you can have, which helps with that second number. I think in Civ3 Vanilla it also can help for distance by acting like a second palace. You need a certain number of cities and Construction (I think) to build a forbidden palace. You can also build courthouses (Code of Laws) and police stations (Communism) to minimize corruption, but the impact for those isn't huge. You will still have corruption. Something Venerable Bede (not the real one, the one here. The real one never played Civ3) suggests is using distant and 50%+ corrupt cities as tax or science farms. To do this irrigate everything, and make a lot of tax or scientist specialists. Specialist production is not affected by corruption.
The other thing you can do is keep the people happy, so that you get a We Love The King Day, which reduces corruption a little bit, too. For that you need size 6 or bigger, no unhappy people, and more happy people than content people (IIRC, I may be wrong on this last bit).
 
Hail everyone! Another seemingly slow ten turns but with some significant findings. It is almost a certainty that I am on an island, and the only civilization remaining since I destroyed the French. I notice to the northeast what could be a waterway to another landmass. The water is light blue farther from the land than all the other coastlines. Is that an indicator and can a galley travel across it? I have two Spearmen and two Settlers in production from my four towns. You may notice I haven’t heeded some of the advice given concerning land development. I will use it in future games but wanted to see the results of my misuse in this game.

I have a simple plan. Once I complete Map Making I will build a Galley, load it with my Scout and a Horseman and venture toward what I believe to be a route to another landmass. The second trip to the new land will include a Settler, maybe two, depending on what lie ahead. While that effort is underway I will continue to populate my island and set up defenses against invading forces, or attempts from other civilization to settle on it. I have no idea who the remaining civilizations may be or if they are at war (that would be nice for me I think).

Overall, how would you assess my progress? It’s 1790BC and I only have four small towns. My Income is 26g with Expenses of 26g (Science is 14g, Corruption is 12g – that seems high); breaking even each turn with a Treasury of 95g. I’m working to get at least one Spearman and one Horseman in each town as a base military (until better units can be produced or upgraded to). Personally I feel like I’m behind and expect to see the remaining civilizations with superior techs, cities, and militaries.

Can't believe I got so much playing time yesterday and today. The turns are going quickly at the moment.

2150BC. Turn 41. Horseback Riding in 3 turns. Town of Washington settled on the coast with gems immediately available,
2110BC. Turn 42. Horseback Riding in 1 turn. Delos produced a Spearman.
2070BC. Turn 43. Horseback Riding complete. Writing in 13 turns.
2030BC. Turn 44. Writing in 12 turns.
1990BC. Turn 45. Writing in 11 turns. It looks as though I may be on a large island with no other civilizations. I will push as quickly as possible to develop Map Making and Galleys.
1950BC. Turn 46. Writing in 10 turns.
1910BC. Turn 47. Writing in 8 turns.
1870BC. Turn 48. Writing in 6 turns. I wonder why it’s progressing quicker than once per turn?
1830BC. Turn 49. Writing in 5 turns.
1790BC. Turn 50. Writing in 4 turns. My Scout can see a village two squares away. Let’s hope for another tech.

A loyal servant,
Scrivener
 
You may notice I haven’t heeded some of the advice given concerning land development. I will use it in future games but wanted to see the results of my misuse in this game.

At Chieftain level on your first game, I'm not entirely certain that you'll notice any difference. But there's nothing wrong with playing it out to "see the results of [your] misuse." Come back to this game and reread your own log in 6 months or a year . . . then you'll see the difference.

Overall, how would you assess my progress? It’s 1790BC and I only have four small towns. My Income is 26g with Expenses of 26g (Science is 14g, Corruption is 12g – that seems high); breaking even each turn with a Treasury of 95g. I’m working to get at least one Spearman and one Horseman in each town as a base military (until better units can be produced or upgraded to). Personally I feel like I’m behind and expect to see the remaining civilizations with superior techs, cities, and militaries.

As I haven't downloaded the saves (if there are any), and this being Chieftain, assessing progress is a little difficult. But you've learned the mechanics, researched techs, built settlers and military units and destroyed the French!

One of the things about Chieftain level is that you probably won't be behind in techs and, if you are, it won't be by much. You'll probably wind up being the world's driving technological force. If you really want to pull out into the tech lead, be sure to settle near rivers and build roads.

1870BC. Turn 48. Writing in 6 turns. I wonder why it’s progressing quicker than once per turn?

One of your towns must have grown.
 
Hail everyone! I didn't think to upload my saved game. I will look into doing that in the near future. Thanks for the responses and information everyone.

A loyal servant,
Scrivener
 
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