Carthage Historical Victory

werttrew · Jan 22, 2007

Okay, I've found this one really challenging. My request is to see if anyone has ideas on accomplishing this UHV or if anyone who already done it themselves can describe their tactics.

Goals:
1. First to circumnavigate
2. Control four [Edit: I incorrectly said "five"] dye resources by 350 AD-turn 138
3. 7 cities around the Mediterranean by 350 AD-turn 138
[Edit: added in the exact dates]

Now, circumnavigation is easily manageable given the right tech advances, so I’ll ignore that one.

Next, the dye resources.
*There are two dye resources in the Middle East, northeast of Sur, northwest of Babylon. Due to Babylon’s cultural influence and the possible occupation of Turkey by Greece, you may need to go to war with them as well as taking Sur and Jerusalem.
*There is one dye resources in west Egypt, on the coast. A war with Egypt seems necessary here.
[Edit: Removed my incorrect references to obtainable dyes in Paris and London]

Are there others dye resources that are viable for Carthage to get that I’m missing?

Okay, so that leaves the seven cities. Viable, especially since you can conquer cities and not necessarily settle them yourself, as I understand it. However, wars with Babylon, Egypt, and possibly Greece and Persia, combined with the aggressive Romans, stretch you out very thin very quickly.

In my attempt I only managed two dye resources and six cities, although admittedly that was my first and only stab at it.

So, any ideas or comments?

LuKo · Jan 22, 2007

You need to get only 4 dyes in new version. However French and English ones appears 100 years too late...

Garashta · Jan 22, 2007

"Okay, so that leaves the seven cities. Viable, especially since you can conquer cities and not necessarily settle them yourself, as I understand it."
allow me to disagree, it is said that carthage should settle 7 cities, and by setling i understand setling, not capturing

Rhye · Jan 22, 2007

in fact you must found 7 cities.

As for the dyes, 1 is in egypt, 2 in phoenicia and one can be found in the east, founding a city there.

What's the goal that's still too hard?

Abegweit · Jan 23, 2007

Founding seven cities is very hard, although I'm pretty sure it can be done. Just raze and replace. Roma delenda est! Getting four dyes approaches the impossible. The combination of the two is beyond reality.

Lord Oden · Jan 23, 2007

Captureing the Egyptian Dye is easy. Captureing the two Turkish dyes can be hard. You coast city will be culturely weak compared to the other civs and you will not have time to grow your boarders. I have not been able to take the dye in persia, it is damn near impossible.

I would sugest moveing a dye to spain or reducing the count or removing the time limit. 7 cities is hard, but I bet it can be done once the dye problem is resolved. I can usually get 5 cities with a little effort. Maybe adding an extra food resource.

Rhye · Jan 23, 2007

is founding a couple of cities in southeast Asia hard to do?

SkippyT · Jan 23, 2007

for Carthage? wow!
I can't see how that's possible! :confused:

I think the dye goal is extremely difficult, more difficult than the 7 cities goal. When I was playing as Carthage one day I managed to get:
1 dye resource (the one in Egypt)
7 cities in the Mediterranean (I had the whole N-Africa and 2 cities in the Spanish Med. coast)

Destroying Babylon to get the two dye resources (because Babili's culture is waaay too massive for a newly founded city) in Pheonicia is just too hard and to think you're expected to destroy Persia to get the next one..darn! That one is extremely tough.

Talkie_Toaster · Jan 23, 2007

"Excuse me, do you mind if we slaughter your troops and people, depose your leaders and grind your civilization under the wheels of our flaming chariots of war? It's just that we need the dye..."

dazman92 · Jan 23, 2007

would trading count?

Talkie_Toaster · Jan 23, 2007

I doubt it, I think that might be a bit too easy.

Rhye · Jan 23, 2007

I was refering to circumnavigating Africa and founding cities in East Asia...

werttrew · Jan 23, 2007

I did try this one again, this time sending my first settler around Africa, past Persia and India, and settled a colony in Singapore. Without enough culture points in time, however, I was not able to get the dye under my control by the proper time.

By 350, I had only founded three cities and controlled 1 dye, but I was admittedly caught by the time limit by surprise (my fault--I wasn't really paying attention to the calendar.)

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has successfully accomplished this historical victory--is it even possible?

-=-=-=-=-=-=
If this HV were to be changed, I'd suggest something like the following ideas:
Control 9 Mediterranean coastal cities, either by conquering or founding, by 350 AD-turn 138 (Reflecting their influence on the Med.)

Destroy both the Roman and Egyptian civilizations by 350 AD-turn 138
(Carthage, Rome, and Egypt were the three main powers vying for control of the Med.)

Control or be trading for at least one of each of the following resources by 350 AD-turn 138: Sheep, Horse, Wheat, Marble, Stone, Silver, Gems, Gold, Wine, Iron, Crab, Clam, Fish, Copper, Ivory, Incense and Dye. (Perhaps Cows, Bananas and Rice too, if you want to make it really hard.)
(This would reflect the Carthaginians reputation as great traders)

Rhye · Jan 23, 2007

I'm not going to create a new goal now, I'm just tuning it.
Let me know if the far-eastern way is possible or not. If it isn't I'll reduce dyes to 3

Mercenary82 · Jan 24, 2007

I tried capturing the 2 dyes near Tyre and the dye in Persia, but Babylon and Persia's military is just waay too powerful for a civ with weak production like Carthage to have any chance, even with mercenarys. The dye goal could be doable if the dye in Europe spawns sooner (not sure if thats accurate).

LuKo · Jan 24, 2007

werttrew said:
Destroy both the Roman and Egyptian civilizations by 350 AD-turn 138
(Carthage, Rome, and Egypt were the three main powers vying for control of the Med.)

I thought that Carthage and Macedonia (not Egypt) were biggest powers before Rome had become powerful...

kairob · Jan 24, 2007

Egypt under the rule of Greak rulers after the fragmentation of Alexanders empire was a very large contender, however Macedonia was also a large power in the empire

Mainiac · Jan 24, 2007

The Cathaginians and Greeks had already fought wars over Syracuse and the control of the Med by the time the Romans showed up.

Abegweit · Jan 24, 2007

Rhye said:
is founding a couple of cities in southeast Asia hard to do?

Yes. I've tried it. Aside from the fact that is completely unhistorical, it stunts your growth horribly. You pretty much have to send your second settler out there in order to arrive in time.

Mercenary82 said:
I tried capturing the 2 dyes near Tyre and the dye in Persia, but Babylon and Persia's military is just waay too powerful for a civ with weak production like Carthage to have any chance, even with mercenarys. The dye goal could be doable if the dye in Europe spawns sooner (not sure if thats accurate).

I think Tyre is doable. I'm not sure though. I quit trying when I realised that Persia is impossible.

SkippyT · Jan 24, 2007

Abegweit said:
Yes. I've tried it. Aside from the fact that is completely unhistorical, it stunts your growth horribly. You pretty much have to send your second settler out there in order to arrive in time.

Yes, I agree!!!!

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