Carthage UHV Discussion

W

Whitefire

Emperor
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
1,178
I keep getting close, but just can't nab those dyes before the time limit. Here's how I've been going at it:

Switch to Slavery
Research Mathematics
Load up the galleys with 3 Horses and 1 Archer
Have the Settler wait in the capital.
Trade with Greece for Iron Working and Agriculture
Declare war on Ramses and take Pir-Wadjit
Pillage the copper and horse resources ASAP
Finish off pillaging the rest of Egyptian territory.
Mathematics is done about now so I start on Machinery
Send the galleys back to pick up the settler to found Utica

Utica.jpg


After chopping the forest by Carthage, send the workers up to Utica for pastures.
After the settlers are built, start constructing an army to take down Sure and Yerushalem.


Building Orders:

In the capital we build a Granary then whip 2 settlers.
Build a Monument, Granary then 2 axemen before whipping 3 settlers.
Build a Monument, then Granary and whip 1 settler


How has everyone else been going about it?
 
Getting the dyes is easy. The sure route is to take your settler/galley and head out to south-east Asia. There is a location which will claim two dyes. You can build a monument to get them in time. Together with the Egyptian one, you are home. It is also possible to grab the two dyes in the near east by pumping out a massive number of cats.

The hard part is combining this with founding seven (!) cities on the Met. It's simply impossible to found seven cities while going for the n-e dyes. You can't come close. Not even if you are lucky enough to walk over a plague-infested region (plague is a bad idea, BTW).

I think the Asian approach is possible. The problem here is spamming enough cities while maintaining at least minimal protection from the barbs. I once thought I had it. I had built four cities in northern Africa, two in Spain and one in Corsica. The map says that the location 2-e of the mountainous island of the west African is in the Mediterranean. So I founded a city there to get access to the elephants and protection from the Natives and Barbs. This worked. I managed to get out a couple of elephants in time.

Still, the programme said I hadn't founded enough cities. :cry:
 
Hrm, Math-Construction and develop the elephants could probably get me the win. I usually found all the cities at once, then let the barbs eat them alive. I'll try that tomorrow.
 
Yeah. With the right luck, I think that would work. Just don't forget that the Impis and Camel Archers will be going after Carthage. Plus, this is sooo cheesy.
 
I've never had those units come after Carthage unless I found some cities. It seems like they all head to Egypt instead.
 
7 cities + 2 dyes is still the same challenge. You have to take Sur and hope that you can get your culture up to control the dyes. 5 cities + 3 dyes would probably make it possible to win everytime.


Anyway, I played 2 games this morning. On both I was able to take Yerushalem fairly quickly. In the first game, Persia controlled Sur, so I was never able to take it over. In the second game, both Sur and Yerushalem were independent and Barbs ended up taking Hatt, making claiming the dyes a cakewalk. The scenario is doable as is, but success is tied to the situation in the Middle East. The best way to fix this scenario is to shift Susa N one square. With the dye in it's 3x3 radius, you could probably get Susa's culture up high enough to claim them. I'm not sure how moving Susa will change the other scenarios though.
 
Well, I finally managed this one. UHV in 950AD.

I founded three cities in Africa, two in Spain, and one each in Sardinia and Anatolia. Conquered Per-Wadget, Jerusalem, Sur, Babylon, Nineveh and Hattusas. Babylon and Nineveh were razed. With the possible exception of Babylon, you have to take all these cities in order to succeed. Of course, the win was somewhat cheesy because one cat and one nubian took Jerusalem, Sur and Babylon. Plague, of course. Nineveh was weakened too.

Even at that, it was very hairy. I lost my cities in Spain and Egypt to barbs. Almost lost Carthage too. :eek:

I think this is impossible without a lot of luck. Whitefire is right that 5-3 would be easy (just settle in Indochina and grow normally after that) while 7-2 is almost as hard as 7-3.

I say change it to seven cities owned and 3 dye. That's hard enough... Besides, what is the point in founding all these useless cities?
 
After thinking about this, I would rather the Dye requirement change to "Sack Rome". Not only is it more historically accurate, but it is a more reliable situation. Rome stats with the same units and the AI usually has the same build and research order, so you can predict fairly accurately what kind of force you will need to take the city. You should still keep the 7 cities requirement.
 
I replayed Carthage three times now, won twice, lost once due to an abnormally strong Egypt. It actually made the game much more fun just controlling the cities. In one, I invaded Greece taking 3 costal cities and all of Turkey. Which, in addition to Susa, Yerushalem, Al-something and the capital gave me the 7 coast cities I need. I'm gonna play one more time and see if I can invade Rome with Elephants and still make the UHV.

________
It would be nice if you could add an Elephant resource on a desert tile south of the Carthage start point. The closest Elephant is inconvenient to nab. The Mediterranean tile that can claim it means you have to make the city's borders pop and the convenient spot doesn't count toward your 7 city total. Having the elephant south of Carthage would make roleplaying much more fun and wouldn't over-power the civ at all.
 
Okay dragging up an old topic here but I'm having serious troubles completing the Carthaginian UHV. I got close taking Babylon, Sur and Jerusalem but it still wasn't enough to nab those two infuriating dyes! I thought it would of been enough, but it didn't matter in the end because while my army was busy fighting a ahistorical battle in Babylon I lost my two coastal cities I had in Iberia to barbs.

Ok now I can understand why the Carthaginian condition involves getting a monopoly over dye it sort of makes sense. Fighting a massive war with Babylon though doesn't, Carthage had nothing to do with Babylon. One of Carthage's UHV should have them in a constant struggle with Rome, either their condition being destroy Rome or control the Western Med or something. In my games I didn't even look at Rome, I just ignored it. Admittedly I failed in all my attempts but that was only because of the Dyes, I guess I could go after the Dyes in Asia but where's the historical accuracy in that? Maybe replace Dyes with Luxuries and increase the number to some thing appropriate for luxuries? Just a suggestion.
 
El_Chimpo said:
Okay dragging up an old topic here but I'm having serious troubles completing the Carthaginian UHV. I got close taking Babylon, Sur and Jerusalem but it still wasn't enough to nab those two infuriating dyes! I thought it would of been enough, but it didn't matter in the end because while my army was busy fighting a ahistorical battle in Babylon I lost my two coastal cities I had in Iberia to barbs.
Click to expand...

Play again using my first post as a rough guide. The first city you take should be Per Wajit. Then take Susa, the Jerusalem since it will cause problems claiming that one dye in Susa. The two dies you get should be Sur one in it's 3x3 and Per Wadjit. Make sure you ship out obelisks in Susa and Jerusalem. If you convert to Judaism, those two cities should be enough to beat back Babylon's culture. After that, use Utica to spam settlers and you're home free.



While we're talking about Carthage, has anyone used their UP? I hate the mercenary function, so I've never used it in any of my games. It would probably help with the barb invasion though.
 
I can see how you managed to pull it off Whitefire, it would take some incredibly quick playing and very planed out starting moves but I see how you could do it.

My main concern though is the historical issues, Carthage's UHV doesn't bring it in conflict with Rome. It mainly seems to bring Carthage into conflict with Babylon which isn't historical at all. I started my campaign thinking of how I would take out Rome and realized I didn't have to touch it at all. No Hannibal shenanigans for me.

With the UP I used it once, it helped me get a city when I was desperately trying to eliminate cities around Sur to get the two Dyes, got the city but culture still kept the dyes and bay. Over all I find the power pretty damn weak especially compared to everyone else's UP.
 
The UP usually helps the AI more, but in general, mercenaries are very useful if you are very pressed, for example to defend yourself from the Berber Camel Archers.

Regarding the UHV, el chimpo, there are military and peaceful UHV, compare for example Greek and Persia, France and Germany... The idea was to not include any conflict for Carthage at all. ok, that backfired, but you see why a Rome-condition was not included.Yes, that also backfired for Rome who should have gotten a military one, but indeed received a peaceful one.

mick
 
Ok the peacefully and military thing is fair enough but I find my self playing the most aggressive type of game I've ever played when playing as Carthage desperately trying to wipe out Babylon to get the dyes. As far as I see it if Carthage should be desperately trying to wipe someone out it should be Rome.
 
Personally, I don't think a Carthage desperately trying to kill Rome is historically correct, because the Punic Wars began because of an expanding Rome (and Rome's Western Empire UHV makes up for that). I know that the Carthaginians were well-known for the dye-stuff, but it was a technique in creating purple dye, not an abundance of dyestuffs (but in Civ quality does not matter - quantity does). 7-2 will be more historical (the extra dye representing whatever profit the Carthaginians made with the high-quality dye while the seven cities showing the extent of the Carthaginian Republic), but the 5-3 will be a lot easier (a colony in SEA and you're good to go), or at least, doesn't need luck. What a dilemma.
 
Well I find the 7 cities quite attainable but the 3 dyes extremely difficulty. Changing it from 3 to 2 wouldn't make any much a difference because the dye's near Sur are right next to each other. But making the condition any easier doesn't change the point that making Carthage get two dyes surrounded by Babylonian influence makes Carthage go into some bizzaro all or nothing battle with Babylon. The German UHV gets them going after areas and battling enemies that they have faced though out their history. Look maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing, its an interesting UHV thats different to the rest but I would like a reason to battle Rome. The Punic Wars were a result of Rome's growing power but if I'm pursuing a historical victory I'd like to see something give me an incentive to do a Hannibal and try to crush Rome. They were two powers trying to dominate the western Mediterranean, instead I'm off finding dyes either against Babylon or in the middle of South East Asia. Replacing the 3 UHV dyes with a lot of luxuries could keep Carthage battling historical enemies.
 
El_Chimpo said:
Well I find the 7 cities quite attainable but the 3 dyes extremely difficulty. Changing it from 3 to 2 wouldn't make any much a difference because the dye's near Sur are right next to each other.
Click to expand...

Are you playing the newest version?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

bengalryan9
Civ Discussion - Carthage
2 3
Replies
54
Views
3K
MagicCuboid
MagicCuboid
Bernd-das-Brot
Rus UHV 1.18 - doing UHV3 before the Russians spawn
Replies
2
Views
258
Kott
Kott
C
[BTS] Mayan Domination Victory on Emperor under version 1.181 of RFC
Replies
1
Views
561
Gen1_
G
K
Early Game City Building
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
Lanzelot
Lanzelot
G
Simplified List of Buildings arranged by category
Replies
1
Views
1K
Yzman
Yzman
Back
Top Bottom