Citizen Initiative: Traditional Government

Falcon02

Falcon02

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Here's what I wrote up for the "Traditional Government" Proposal.

Size of the DP Pool was a relatively arbitrary number I picked, so that if there are any objections it should be easy enough to change. Same thing goes for the time limit for posting instructions for game sessions.

I tried to use the Constitution as a reference as best I could, to reduce redundancy and contradictions. So if there was something I missed please point it out so it can be corrected.

Other then that... Here it is... Tell me what you think...



Article I: The Legislature (The Citizens)
  • Section I: The Citizens shall make up the Legislature.
  • Section II: The Citizens will elect the members of the Executive Branch and all Governors.
  • Section III: The Citizens shall let their will be known as described in Article C of the Constitution.

Article II: The Executive Branch
  • Section I: The Executive Branch shall consist of the President, the Advisers, and the Governors. All Members of the Executive Branch shall be elected by the Citizens.
  • Section II: The Offices of the Executive Branch
    • The President – The President is the overall head of the Executive Branch. He/She is responsible for planning when game sessions are held and determining who will play the save. When there is no adviser assigned to a specific task the President is responsible for ensuring that the task is done and instructions are posted for that task, either by the President, one of his/her ministers, or the DP playing the save.
    • The Domestic Adviser – The Domestic Adviser is responsible for overseeing the Governors and planning worker assignments. He/She ensures all Governors are working towards the overall goals of the country. They also mediate any arguments between Governors over land usage. Specifically if the city radius' of two cities, under two Governors overlap and each governor wants rights to work a specific tile. The Domestic Adviser is also responsible for planning out the borders of any new provinces and what cities are within those borders. If a new province or city has not been assigned a Governor the Domestic Adviser shall manage that province or city until a Governor is elected to mange that province or city.
    • Governors – Working with the Domestic Adviser, Governors are responsible for planning the build queues and overall micromanagement of the cities within their province. At the start of a new Demogame a Governor shall be elected to run the capital city and capital province of our first city.
    • The Military Adviser – The Military Adviser is responsible for planning troop movements and upgrades. He/She is also responsible for working with both Domestic and the Governors to ensure the needed military units are being recruited and trained.
  • Section III: Members of the Executive Branch shall promote citizen discussion of topics within their responsibility.
  • Section IV: Members of the Executive Branch are required ensure that detailed instructions are posted for each game session covering their area of responsibility well at least 6 hours before the planned game session. These instructions shall not contradict the decisions of the citizens.
  • Section V: The Citizens shall create new Adviser positions as they deem necessary to assign responsibilities not already defined to the new positions, through the use of an initiative.
  • Section VI: Officials of the Executive Branch shall attempt to appoint a Deputy as an aid for their respective Office. This deputy will also post instructions and take over the office in the absence of the Adviser.
Article III: The Designated Player(DP) Pool

  • Section I: The DP Pool shall consist of 3 people who are elected by the citizens and have the responsibility for playing the save during game sessions.
  • Section II: The DP shall follow the instructions posted by those of the Executive Branch when playing the game session, except if those instructions directly contradict a decision made by the citizens.
  • Section III: All citizens, including those who hold an office are eligible to be a member of the DP Pool, so long as they have a computer capable of playing the save.
  • Section IV: Election for the DP Pool will be a Public Multiple choice poll, Citizens shall vote for up to 3 candidates. If a citizen votes for more then three he/she must correct their votes to meet the requirement by asking a moderator to adjust their votes or their votes will be thrown out. The 3 candidates with the most votes shall be the new DP Pool. Should there be a tie which makes the number of eligible candidates greater then 3, there shall be a run-off poll to resolve the tie.
  • Section V: If there are less than 3 candidates running for the DP Pool, the President shall ensure that the remaining slots are filled up by elected officials.

Article IV: Impeachment
  • Section I: All Elected and Appointed officials (Including DP's) may be impeached if the citizens determine they are no longer fit to hold office.
  • Section II: An Impeachment poll would require at least 2 citizens to post supporting an impeachment.
  • Section III: An official who is the subject of an Impeachment poll would continue his/her duties until the conclusion of the Impeachment poll.
  • Section IV: The Impeachment poll would be a simple "Yes or No" poll as whether or not the official should be removed from office, and require a simple majority to pass.
 
Nobody said:
If your going to go the old style why not add foreign, trade, culture and science?
Click to expand...

Because Popular opinion is for a minimalistic start, thus only the departments I think are necessary at the start are included as part of this initial draft, with a mechanism to add more later.
 
A few questions pop up

How is the 3 person DP pool selected?
What happens if fewer than 3 people are nominated?
Can DP pool members hold other offices?
How are vacant offices filled, if at all?
Do we have a governor before the domestic advisor decides which cities are in a province? (i.e. to start with)
 
DaveShack said:
How is the 3 person DP pool selected?
Click to expand...

Never saw the DP Pool in action last DG, I would imagine though whoever wanted to play would run, top three would be in the pool.

DaveShack said:
What happens if fewer than 3 people are nominated?
Click to expand...

In that case we could revert a CoC system (my preference anyway) with officials taking on the role of the DP pool.

DaveShack said:
Can DP pool members hold other offices?
Click to expand...

I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to.

DaveShack said:
How are vacant offices filled, if at all?
Click to expand...

If you're referring to the role normally filled by Deputies... Well the Deputies. Didn't want to arbitrarily select appointed or election runner up though.

DaveShack said:
Do we have a governor before the domestic advisor decides which cities are in a province? (i.e. to start with)
Click to expand...

There is an initial governor for the original city/province. When it comes to new cities expanded beyond that, Domestic can take care of those until a province is defined and governor is assigned. However, preferably Domestic should have things planned out so there is a governor waiting to take over a new cities outside of current provinces.
 
Thanks for the answers. :) Would they prompt changes to the text of the proposal?

On the appointment question, in recent games we've had trouble even filling the deputy positions, though hopefully that won't be a problem here. I was aiming more like "if no deputy the President appoints someone". ;)

On the how to select DP's question, so a single choice poll listing all candidates, top three are in, ties determined by runoff?
 
DaveShack said:
Thanks for the answers. :) Would they prompt changes to the text of the proposal?

On the appointment question, in recent games we've had trouble even filling the deputy positions, though hopefully that won't be a problem here. I was aiming more like "if no deputy the President appoints someone". ;)

On the how to select DP's question, so a single choice poll listing all candidates, top three are in, ties determined by runoff?
Click to expand...

Updated...

On the DP selection, I had a hard time writing up a working text for it. I was thinking with single choice we could easily end up with 2 candidates that get all the votes and have to do a runoff for 5 different people.

So I thought about the system they use for electing the Board of Education and other multiple candidate, multiple seat office. So I tried a Multiple-choice wording... potentially makes more work for mods and adds complexity though... :undecide:

Here's the section...
Section IV: Election for the DP Pool will be a Public Multiple choice poll, Citizens shall vote for up to 3 candidates. If a citizen votes for more then three he/she must correct their votes to meet the requirement by asking a moderator to adjust their votes or their votes will be thrown out. The 3 candidates with the most votes shall be the new DP Pool. Should there be a tie which makes the number of eligible candidates greater then 3, there shall be a run-off poll to resolve the tie.
Click to expand...

Tell me what you think? We can still move it back to single choice and just do runoffs.. worded as such....

Section IV: Election for the DP Pool will be a Single choice poll. The 3 candidates with the most votes shall be the new DP Pool. Should there be a tie which makes the number of eligible candidates greater then 3, there shall be a run-off poll to resolve the tie.
Click to expand...

Essentially the same thing except with out the clarification and "if you mess up do this" portion...
 
The fix it option won't work because the votes are private. We'd have to validate the votes, which is a pain for Thunderfall.

We could make it multi-choice with no limit on votes and then take the top 3, with runoffs. I think we'd be better off just not limiting the size of the pool.
 
DaveShack said:
The fix it option won't work because the votes are private. We'd have to validate the votes, which is a pain for Thunderfall.
Click to expand...

That's why I said it should be public in the rules, unless that violates the Constitution....

DaveShack said:
We could make it multi-choice with no limit on votes and then take the top 3, with runoffs. I think we'd be better off just not limiting the size of the pool.
Click to expand...

no limit... then how do we determine who makes it through and who doesn't? 50% or greater Majority?

What if no one gets a majority?
 
We could just use Ravensfire's DP initiative, and leave it out of the traditional initiative. No reason why the DP, elections, government, and playing the save can't be separate laws polled at separate times.

The Constitution limits polls regarding individuals to be private only.

In the past we've used >50% as the criteria for making DP pool. The maximum would be 60%, as limited by the Constitution. No higher value may be required than the amount to pass an amendment.

If no DP's are approved, I'd expect the President to then be responsible, like it was in the Civ3 games.
 
Agreed on the no reason they can't be seperate laws.

But I've seen nothing in Ravensfire's proposal about DP election, just Posting instructions and playing the save itself.

And on your last two points, that's find with me.
 
Another feature I liked is when we had "offices". (i.e., Office of Infrastructure, Office of The Navy, etc.) They weren't elected, but they were users appointed by the advisor to help them out. I suppose we could put a piece of text in saying something like, "If two citizens disagree with an advisor's appointment, they can post a poll". I have no idea what to call the poll, though - "Reversal Poll"? "Over-riding Poll"? My legalese (or lack of it) escapes me right now. :p
 
Let's assume such a poll is created by other users, does the appointed user have the right to execute anything during the poll period or does the appointed person have to wait until the poll outcome is known? In that case I'm not for appointing people by advisors as it can throw the game in a deadlock.
 
Well, these appointed people really don't ever have a right to "execute" anything unless in the Adviser's absence, in which case they act as backup. They're pretty much there to help the Adviser out with tasks (ie. gathering together and posting ingame data). However, an Adviser could theoretically give out things responsibilities like Naval movements to the Office of the Navy or what not...

But regardless, no, I think the appointed person would still be able to preform their duties during that time. If people are opposed to that the Adviser of whatever department that is could take over that task.
 
I think I'm going to add a section on general impeachment (appointed and elected), but not right now, need to fix food.

Though as DaveShack has pointed out, that could also be a separate Initiative.
 
Well...

A.) Poll isn't closed yet... but I agree... I don't see any sort of reversal coming

B.) Traditional Government could be used as a replacement for Tribal when we grow bigger. Some people feel just expand upon Tribal and that's fine, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

C.) If nothing else think of it as early prep for DG3, we've got time now, and this could be used as a basis for the DG3 government.


Now about those impeachment sections.............:hmm:
 
You have my full support on this one.
 
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