Can anyone help me fix this bug??

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BattleOfTheBulg

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Hi,

In CIVIII, I use the editor to alter the file:

C:\Program Files\Atari\Civilization III Complete\Conquests

Then when I play the game I cannot see the Close Up City View option when browsing through your cities. You know, the big EYE on the upper right hand corner of the screen. That isn't there.

I like to create particular game rules and scenarios, but then I lose the best part of the gam, which is for me to build a massive city with a bunch of wonders and be able to see a close up. It's frustrating.

There has got to be one person out there who knows how to fix this.....if you help me solve this riddle I will heap upon you endless :worship:


Thank You.
 
well that is indeed a doozie, i am sure if you compare the files from wherever you edited, and another version of civ or (you did hopefully make) a copy of the files you changed i am sure there will be some missing line of code...

and THIS is the reason i don't mess with the editor
 
I don't have the original conquest file but I'm sure I can find it on the CIVIII cd.

That's a good idea. Can you offer any advice on how to view the source code? I'm a database administrator so feel free to use specific technical terms, I can figure it out.

Thanks
 
Well, in scenarios you make, it is impossible to make that aerial view to appear, only in default random games. Now, if you changed the original conquests file, by ticking the read only off, and then editing it, make sure you don't make a new file of it, just save it, and tick the read only thing again, which can be found by going to it's properties (Right Click, Bottom of list)
 
Either way of editing the conquests file seems to work ok when selecting a random game. Losing the aerial view only seems to be a problem when, as you say, creating a new scenario.

This seems like a terrific oversight of the programming staff. No aerial view if you create your own scenario? Try as I might, I cannot think of any good reason why they would leave this feature out of custom scenarios. To me it detracts from gameplay... which from a sales point of view is probably not the best idea.

Maybe someone from Firaxis could enlighten me...
 
BattleOfTheBulg said:
Either way of editing the conquests file seems to work ok when selecting a random game. Losing the aerial view only seems to be a problem when, as you say, creating a new scenario.

This seems like a terrific oversight of the programming staff. No aerial view if you create your own scenario? Try as I might, I cannot think of any good reason why they would leave this feature out of custom scenarios. To me it detracts from gameplay... which from a sales point of view is probably not the best idea.

Maybe someone from Firaxis could enlighten me...
Click to expand...

I am not a firaxian, but this seems obvious to me. If you create a new city structure in your scenario what should the fancy aerial view show you?
Its a lot of work for something that is only eye candy anyway. They just took the most simple solution, turn it off when playing a costume scenario.
 
MAS said:
I am not a firaxian, but this seems obvious to me. If you create a new city structure in your scenario what should the fancy aerial view show you?
Its a lot of work for something that is only eye candy anyway. They just took the most simple solution, turn it off when playing a costume scenario.
Click to expand...

No that doesn't make any sense. I'm talking about changing the scenario properties, like having 1000 turns instead of 500. Or starting with different techs, or having 15 players on a tiny map.

The aerial view will draw a city based on what the city has constructed, and where geopgraphically it is located. If I zoom into Berlin I see it is constructed next to a river, OK, and it has built temple, barracks and has a Palace... OK. These things would be drawn the same way whether it's a custom scenario or a default, random game. I don't see how you can possibly change the code within the program to alter those base parameters in any way that would cause the aerial view to malfunction. It just seems like the aerial view button itself does not display when you create a custom scenario... and that seems like sloppy programming.


[edit: I just looked into the editor and there is absolutely no settings you could change to screw with the "city structure". Like you can't make it so a city can built on a mountain tile, or have buildings sit on top of each other, or anything that would indicate the program would behave any differently than it would when running with a default conquests.biq file. Speaking from 11 years experience as a programmer I think I'm pretty correct in what I'm saying here.]

So sorry, but unless someone who has intimate knowledge of the source code can tell me differently, I will reject your reality and substitute my own.
 
I´m so sorry, that I haven´t intimate knowledge of the source code.

So I can´t tell you, that when I remember well, the loss of the city view was "no sloopy programming", as FIRAXIS did exchange that in C3C to gain more place for the small luxury icons, that did cause lots of CTDs in earlier versions.

And I can´t tell you, that when you make your scenario biq your main C3C biq (after doing a backup) you have the city view again for the edited biq (as last this did work for me when I tried that long time ago).

It´s such a pitty that I haven´t intimate knowledge of the source code.

Edited: This stands in the read me file of the v.1.22 Patch:

NOTES:
* City view is disabled while playing the Conquests. This was done because the creation of art assets to fit every scenario was considered a lower priority than expanded gameplay.
* City view art for the New Wonders do not appear in the City View screen. Sorry.
 
Civinator said:
I´m so sorry, that I haven´t intimate knowledge of the source code.

So I can´t tell you, that when I remember well, the loss of the city view was "no sloopy programming", as FIRAXIS did exchange that in C3C to gain more place for the small luxury icons, that did cause lots of CTDs in earlier versions.

And I can´t tell you, that when you make your scenario biq your main C3C biq (after doing a backup) you have the city view again for the edited biq (as last this did work for me when I tried that long time ago).

It´s such a pitty that I haven´t intimate knowledge of the source code.
Click to expand...



With all due respect if I were you I would start off by just dating the English language, and then if that leads to something serious you might want to flirt with the CIII source code.

Because I really don't understand what you're trying to say here :confused: Are you just agreeing with me? They didn't replace the city view button with any icons, in fact it's just an empty space.
 
Ich habe Dir den Weg gezeigt -der immer noch funktioniert- wie Du Dein Problem beheben kannst. Wenn Du es nicht verstehst, mag ich Dir jetzt auch nicht mehr helfen, denn ich bin jetzt sauer.


"I've shown you how to fix the problem, while keeping the game functional. If you don't understand, then I'm not helping anymore because you've made me angry." --Padma's translation

Moderator Action: If you're going to write in non-English - add an English translation! --Padma
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Bulg, you cannot say that the coding is "sloppy", do something better, and then say that.

To add to that, new buildings etc can mess up the aerial view, noting the taking out of the aerial view in mods/scenarios.
 
I still say it's sloppy programming, and the fact that they "deprioritized" the feature just proves that. But you're right, I should amend my criticism to say "lazy programming".

It's not up to me to build a better program, I already have a job. I don't ask users of my own software to "fix it themselves" when they find an error. They complain, I respond. That's business.


And thanks for the info, you really cool guy.
 
BattleOfTheBulg said:
No that doesn't make any sense. I'm talking about changing the scenario properties, like having 1000 turns instead of 500. Or starting with different techs, or having 15 players on a tiny map.
Click to expand...

Actually, I can agree that if the scenario isn't a complete makeover, and doesn't contain changes that would effect the aerial view, they could have let the aerial view stay. Though, then they would have to find a way to differentiate between mods that change it and mods that don't.

The aerial view will draw a city based on what the city has constructed, and where geopgraphically it is located. If I zoom into Berlin I see it is constructed next to a river, OK, and it has built temple, barracks and has a Palace... OK. These things would be drawn the same way whether it's a custom scenario or a default, random game. I don't see how you can possibly change the code within the program to alter those base parameters in any way that would cause the aerial view to malfunction.
Click to expand...
But what if you create a galaxy mod, where you have a space station next to a cosmic flow, inside an asteroid pack? and the space station has build a space ship docking bay and a ray defense shield.

It just seems like the aerial view button itself does not display when you create a custom scenario
Click to expand...

exactly! It doesn't just seem like that, that is the way Firaxis choose to do it.

... and that seems like sloppy programming.
Click to expand...

since time is money, and they want to maximize profit, they choose disabling the aerial view because they figured the money they'd lose due to the handful of costumers, who love the aerial view as much as you, not buying the expansion amounts to less than the money they'd lose putting more time into this.

So sorry, but unless someone who has intimate knowledge of the source code can tell me differently, I will reject your reality and substitute my own.
Click to expand...
Its not the source code you need knowledge of, its the thought process behind this design decision...
 
MAS said:
Its not the source code you need knowledge of, its the thought process behind this design decision...
Click to expand...

I must preface this statement with a disclaimer that since it is now the year 2007, integrity may not be a widely understood term by the good members of this website whom I assume are mostly generation X-ers or younger. That being said, I assure you I have the utmost knowledge of design decisions, I make them each and every day. I can also say that when you start sacrificing portability, functionality, enhancements, features, or other areas of a program to save time or money... then you are being lazy and producing an inferior product.

I refer you to Exhibit A... The Microsoft Millenium(Me) Operating System.

Or how about Windows Vista? How long will it be before they tell you that you'll need to install SERVICE PACK 2 because of all the stuff the forgot to include in the original OS? Maybe forgot is a harsh term. They leave it out because they "didn't have time" to put it in. Well, news flash... when you promise a product on a certain date, you provide a finished product, or take your lumps and push the date back. It's call ethical business practices. For those of you who have not been in the computer/IT business for more than a year you may not be aware of such a term. But I guarantee that if you work in the IT industry, when you interview for your next job, because you were fired from your current job for pumping out a crappy product ON TIME, it will come up.


Because personally I'd rather release a piece of software later that works through and through, than produce a half-assed product today.


I have no qualms against calling the programming department of Firaxis lazy... they have taken more than enough of my money and I have earned the right to be a demanding customer.
 
BattleOfTheBulg said:
I must preface this statement with a disclaimer that since it is now the year 2007, integrity may not be a widely understood term by the good members of this website whom I assume are mostly generation X-ers or younger. That being said, I assure you I have the utmost knowledge of design decisions, I make them each and every day. I can also say that when you start sacrificing portability, functionality, enhancements, features, or other areas of a program to save time or money... then you are being lazy and producing an inferior product.

I refer you to Exhibit A... The Microsoft Millenium(Me) Operating System.

Or how about Windows Vista? How long will it be before they tell you that you'll need to install SERVICE PACK 2 because of all the stuff the forgot to include in the original OS? Maybe forgot is a harsh term. They leave it out because they "didn't have time" to put it in. Well, news flash... when you promise a product on a certain date, you provide a finished product, or take your lumps and push the date back. It's call ethical business practices. For those of you who have not been in the computer/IT business for more than a year you may not be aware of such a term. But I guarantee that if you work in the IT industry, when you interview for your next job, because you were fired from your current job for pumping out a crappy product ON TIME, it will come up.


Because personally I'd rather release a piece of software later that works through and through, than produce a half-assed product today.


I have no qualms against calling the programming department of Firaxis lazy... they have taken more than enough of my money and I have earned the right to be a demanding customer.
Click to expand...

you are right.:D
 
BattleOfTheBulg said:
I must preface this statement with a disclaimer that since it is now the year 2007, integrity may not be a widely understood term by the good members of this website whom I assume are mostly generation X-ers or younger. That being said, I assure you I have the utmost knowledge of design decisions, I make them each and every day. I can also say that when you start sacrificing portability, functionality, enhancements, features, or other areas of a program to save time or money... then you are being lazy and producing an inferior product.

I refer you to Exhibit A... The Microsoft Millenium(Me) Operating System.

Or how about Windows Vista? How long will it be before they tell you that you'll need to install SERVICE PACK 2 because of all the stuff the forgot to include in the original OS? Maybe forgot is a harsh term. They leave it out because they "didn't have time" to put it in. Well, news flash... when you promise a product on a certain date, you provide a finished product, or take your lumps and push the date back. It's call ethical business practices. For those of you who have not been in the computer/IT business for more than a year you may not be aware of such a term. But I guarantee that if you work in the IT industry, when you interview for your next job, because you were fired from your current job for pumping out a crappy product ON TIME, it will come up.


Because personally I'd rather release a piece of software later that works through and through, than produce a half-assed product today.


I have no qualms against calling the programming department of Firaxis lazy... they have taken more than enough of my money and I have earned the right to be a demanding customer.
Click to expand...

If Firaxis took too much of your money, don't buy from them anymore if it's such a big deal. Entertainment costs money.
 
BattleOfTheBulg, you are complaining over nothing. Your criticism of Firaxis is unfounded in this case. It's clearly not sloppy programming nor lazy programming. They're a business. I've asked them to patch Alpha Centauri and they never have.

Civinator wrote in German because you told him to date the English language, whatever that means.

EDIT: Now I get it. You're just a jerk.

With all due respect if I were you I would start off by just dating the English language, and then if that leads to something serious you might want to flirt with the CIII source code.
Click to expand...
 
Moderator Action: General warning for trolling/flaming to all participants. No need to get upset with each other.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

And as to your problem, it was not "sloppy programming". Simply put, the developershad limited resources, and thus had a choice: they could improve the gameplay, or they could add eye-candy. They chose gameplay. (Rightly so, IMHO.) Any time you play anything other than the random "epic" game, e.g., a scenario, you will not get the City Aerial View. And you can't get the code, because it is copyrighted. Nobody here has even seen the code (with a very few exceptions). And those who do know the code don't post in our Civ3 forums anymore. (They're all busy with Civ4. ;))
 
Padma said:
And as to your problem, it was not "sloppy programming". Simply put, the developershad limited resources, and thus had a choice: they could improve the gameplay, or they could add eye-candy.
Click to expand...

Okay, this is where we can agree to disagree. I don't believe that the city aerial view is "eye candy". You mission is to build a civilization that will stand the test of time. Being able to SEE that civilization on a level beyond a summary, especially your capital city, seems to me to be an important part of gameplay. Using the excuse: "we had limited resources" is an excuse that might get you by in China or the U.S.S.R but here in America we pride ourselves on being #1, or so I thought. Hey let me tell you, if you just dropped the profit benchmark by %0.02 then maybe you could have freed up some "resources". Of course as you mention, the objective is now to improve the next title, CIV4, so who cares about legacy code now. Onwards and upwards, right to the bank. :nono:

I maintain it was sloppy/lazy/irresponsible programming. They sacrificed, IMO, an important part of the game's function over ease of play. Sure I want to play a game quickly without lag, but if it means I have to play Pong to meet that requirement then you're going to have to count me as unimpressed. Alright that's a simplified version of my argument, but there it is in a nutshell. Like Jay said in the movie Clerks; "what's a good looking plate with nothing on it?".

Also, I didn't ask to SEE the code, I just requested a fix to a known bug. Perhaps a patch, or an update of some sort.

Sorry to break up the party. I just want to improve the game as much as the next CivFanatic.
 
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