Is it unethical to attack your ally to win?

Revan1000 · Mar 5, 2007

Hello, I 'm new to the cf. I've been playing civ 4 for about a two months.
I'm close to finishing the game in Epic mode with less than 45 turns left.

I'm behind 200 culture points from the leader. Other civilizations seem to have more advanced weapons than I do except a couple.
Should I go ahead and attack an ally to win?? I feel morally wrong to attack an allied civ. What do you guys think?? :confused:

magicalsushi · Mar 5, 2007

I know what you mean; by the end of a game, I always feel genuinely pleased to see my allies when they approach me for diplomacy, and irritated whenever I have to talk to my enemies. When people attack my friends, I feel enraged; when they attack my enemies, I feel happy. I'd hate to need to attack an ally.

I'm not too great at the game, so I've mostly played on Warlord difficulty so far. As such, I'm always the tech leader, so I end up doing a lot of tech trading with Mansa Musa (since he's no threat to me either way). As a result of this, I really like the guy, and it was genuinely upsetting to have to declare war on him in a recent OCC.

But that didn't stop me.

So yeah, go for it, but if you're already worried about it, then yeah, you WILL feel guilty!

Naismith · Mar 5, 2007

I always pick my target based on what is the best strategy for me. Sometimes I feel a faint sense of regret as I slip a knife into the back of my ally. But I get over it pretty quickly.

Revan1000 · Mar 5, 2007

Thanks for quick responses guys, I guess I'll go for it.
I somehow feel less guilty posting my quandary on cf and getting okay from you guys. Sort of like acholics anonymous meetings.

cabert · Mar 5, 2007

it is unethical to :
- whip away large number of citizens
- send your people to war for land domination
- trade away techs you just got in a trade (copyrights!)
- bribe neighbours
- let people starve because they are unhealthy
...

Do you really care?
IT'S A GAME!

(If you want to play ethically, run for cultural and don't whip)

Andorim · Mar 5, 2007

There are few things that you can do that are short of war.

Stop trading luxury and health resources to them. This will reduce their happiness and health and slow the culture growth a bit.

If you have spies, you can sabatoge key resources. Again, reduced health and happiness will slow them down. You can also use spies to to eliminate farms and food resource improvements around the key cities. Starvation kicks in right away; it will take a while (more than 45 turns) for them to fix all the damage and regrow the population.

Is it morally ok to stick it to them before they stick it to you? You decide.

Revan1000 · Mar 5, 2007

Thanks Anorium, I didn't think of stop trading with rival civ.
I'll give that a shot.

manu-fan · Mar 5, 2007

It is unethical to attack your ally, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. What I like to do is see if they will gift me anything just before I declare war. Hey Isabella, can you spare 400 for poor old me? Only too happy to help a friend. Great, now I declare war on you!

Cheers.

CartesianFart · Mar 5, 2007

It is just a game.I has nothing to do with ethics.

Revan1000 · Mar 5, 2007

Yes, you guys are right, it is just a GAME.
But sometimes I find myself doing same things that I do while playing games.

Sometimes I drive in real life like I drive on PGR, xbox.

Crazy huh?

Heretic_Cata · Mar 5, 2007

Unethical ? What's that ?

RPS-history · Mar 5, 2007

yeah- you nut case, haha. played burnout? theres a game to copy

RPS-history · Mar 5, 2007

unethical is like; should i steel food from this guy, hes asleep and im hungry. that could be considered unthical
use wikipedia.org

LucyDuke · Mar 5, 2007

Nice guys finish last.

Be as nice as you like, but ethics aren't going to help you win the game.

Heretic_Cata · Mar 5, 2007

Ethics

RPS-history said:
unethical is like; should i steel food from this guy, hes asleep and im hungry. that could be considered unthical
use wikipedia.org

So it's like in that game i played as a kid ... Carmageddon ... when you wondered wether you should run over a large bunch of pedestrians at high speed or very slowly, right ?

:lol:

Ok, ok i'll stop being offtopic now. Fun thread. :lol:

Birdmanthepuny · Mar 5, 2007

Once you play long enough you will get used to you so-called allies stabbing you in the back, so why not beat them to the punch?

Giaur · Mar 5, 2007

Regardless of what cabert and some others said, I say that it's normal to have such feelings. Some people do not have them. Some are sensitive some are not. This is how this world is built. I am happy that someone raised that issue. It's only up to you, what you will do.

However it's the game only, as cabert noticed. It's good to remember this.

edit: f.e. I did not build nuclear weapons, cause thought it's the essence of evil. But when Wang nuked me, I gave up my habits. You will see, that AI's are not very moral too.

edit2: I am very convinced that character influences the game very much. It's called gamestyle.

Barney's_Soul · Mar 5, 2007

Revan1000 said:
Hello, I 'm new to the cf. I've been playing civ 4 for about a two months.
I'm close to finishing the game in Epic mode with less than 45 turns left.

I'm behind 200 culture points from the leader. Other civilizations seem to have more advanced weapons than I do except a couple.
Should I go ahead and attack an ally to win?? I feel morally wrong to attack an allied civ. What do you guys think??

Its a god damn GAME! Who cares, if it will help you win then do it. Do you think Hitler gave 2 shits when he attacked Russia in 1941 after a peace treaty? NO he didn't, he wanted to control the continant and he would have if the stupid British didn't get in the way.

cabert · Mar 5, 2007

Giaur said:
Regardless of what cabert and some others said, I say that it's normal to have such feelings. Some people do not have them. Some are sensitive some are not. This is how this world is built. I am happy that someone raised that issue. It's only up to you, what you will do.

right
I onlymentionned that there are loads of moraly dubious things to do in the game.
A good deal of those dubious moves are amongst the most powerful ways to play.
There are ways to win without them, but not a lot.

edit: f.e. I did not build nuclear weapons, cause thought it's the essence of evil. But when Wang nuked me, I gave up my habits. You will see, that AI's are not very moral too.

I never built a nuke. Only used the WB once to see how it looks.

edit2: I am very convinced that character influences the game very much. It's called gamestyle.

yep
until you ind out that some unethical moves allow you to gain the upper hand

Technocactus · Mar 5, 2007

It is unethical. Don't attack anyone. it's mean.

You may also not use nasty civics like State Property, or build military units, because people might die!

Is it unethical to attack your ally to win?

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