RB28 - The True Diplomat

Settings:
Leader: Gandhi
Map: Fractal - random climate and random sealevel
Difficulty: Emperor
Speed: Epic

I had alot of fun in the RB19 game where we played a cultural challenge without using the cultural slider, in other words we basically won a true cultural victory. That is what I was thinking for this game, but try for a true diplomatic victory. I generally prefer not to have complicated variants for my SG's, and usually all my SG's have only 1 variant rule, but this one will be a bit more complicated. I cant help it though

Variant(s):
- Must win diplomatic victory with less than 15% land area.
- Cannot ever declare war by ourselves. If a friend asks us to help, we are allowed.
- No lame tactics like gifting or Razing cities. I think the team know the basic theme of the variant and we will stick with it instead of finding loopholes the variant rules dont cover.

This will be a very economically and diplomatically focused game, where we have to get the maximum out of every city. Since there will be very little to no warring in the game, some micromanagement will be preferrred where every player checks every city every 3-5 turns. Considering the fact that we will have very few cities and no wars, this wont take much time. Anyone can signup, although some emperor level experience is preferable.

Roster:
Qwack
Futurehermit
Darkwatcher
Compromise
Sunrise

Settings we got:



And the start Location:


We had a hut near our warrior, through which we popped a scout. Thats how we scouted so much territory on the first turn. I have played the first 30 turns, and ill have the report up tommorow. I have to get some sleep now

Alright, I have played the first 30 turns. The start is very interesting and there is a variety of different opening strategies we can try. Ill post some of my idea's in this post.



As you can see, I decided to work the spices tile which is 2f2c instead of the 2f1p tiles while researching meditation and putting the build to worker. It looks extremely weed until you think about it. Let me explain, the only way I felt safe of getting meditation first was if it was in 14 turns, it would have been 16 if I worked something other than the spices tile. Now, I could have put research to polythism, but then building a worker first is worthless, since we wont get a useful worker tech in time. I could have ofcourse built a warrior first and gone worker at size 2, but I didnt like those options either for more than 1 reason. First of all, since we had no 3 food tiles, growth would take 17 turns, 18 more for a worker is 35, which IMO is way too late. Now, the second warrior (Or other thing) while we were waiting for the city to grow to size 2 would lose hammers if we stopped it Inbetween.

So anyways, we had popped a scout from a hut, I decided to use that one to explore the eastern lands, while our warrior went west. We find Elizabeth in 3730 BC.



And Washington a turn later. They are both pretty far away, which is preferable. We will probably get our 15% land before we get cramped in.



Buddhism was founded a few turns later, like expected. 14 is relatively safe on emperor, 15 turns is 50-50 chance, and 16 is very difficult unless no other civ has mysticism. I had taken a risk by running around with a injured scout, and it cost us as a lion killed it at 50% odds . Anyhow, after meditation, I set research to agriculture while switching from the spices tile to one which would speed up the worker. I microed so that agriculture finished at the same time our worker was out. Worker was automatically sent to farm the spices tile (3f2c is pretty strong in the early game). Considering we dont really have too much extra food in capital, I decided to temporarily build farms on those spice tiles. I would suggest continuing to farm the other spice tiles until Animal Husbandry comes in.

After agriculture, set research to Animal Husbandry for the pigs. I started some warriors in capital, and started bringing our initial warrior back. We had scouted enough land for now, the initial warrior will be more useful to fogbust back home. The territory around us:



Now, in terms of how to move forward. Like I mentioned, there is more than 1 possible route we can take. The land around is VERY good for our variant, but it will be pretty much useless until we can get Iron Working to clear jungle.

Option 1:
After Animal Husbandry, go Bronze Working, grow capital to size 4. Micromanage so we can whip a settler for 2 population with maximum overflow(which would be put into worker). Found first city 1E of the dye's in the south and chop a obilesk in that city ASAP. After BW, go wheel -> masonry -> Preisthood. Using this strategy with some careful playing, we can have a settler out in around 40 turns, second city founded with borders expanded in about 20-25 more, marble connected in about 10 more, and oracle built in our capital in about 10-15 depending on chops. We would then take Iron Working with Oracle (Because it provides greatest immediete impact), and start founding cities near gems and jungle. The risk in this strategy is if we miss Oracle, our second city will be kind of weak until we can research IW ourselves, and we would have to fogbust very smartly so barbs dont annoy us. The advantage is we can turn this into a huge start because our gems will be connected very early.

Option 2:
Found city 2 near rice towards the west, and try building oracle without marble. The advantage of this strategy is that we wont have to wait for second cities borders to expand and connecting marble, so we might be able to finish oracle a few turns sooner, but ofcourse we will use more resources to build oracle and our second city wont provide as much immediete help. In Option 1, the second city is automatically connected to capital which is +2 commerce, so our research will not suffer at all.

Option 3:
Dont build oracle at all. Im not going to post what to do with this strategy because anything is possible then, but I really dont like this one because not going after oracle with Gandhi is just... wrong.

Im leaning towards either option 1 or 2, with more weight towards option 1(since I like making gambits). If anyone has other strategies or possible changes to my ideas, please do not hesitate to post.

Futurehermit - Up for 20 turns

Hide behind Delhi and build some Wonders!

Lurker´s request:

Hm... this is a very nice map, would you be so kind and post your 4000BC. save? I would like to try this variant too, but feel not comfortable to make my typical dull decisions in SG-team
I will just try this at home, hidden behind my firewall

Thank you and wish you good luck. I will definitely loork this thread

Since we founded Buddhism, I like the idea of going oracle so we can get a prophet for our shrine. However, I don't like the idea of taking IW off of it since the AI always researchs it first so we can easily trade for it. I would instead prefer CoL. If we found some religions it will make it easier to keep diplomatic relations smooth. CoL also opens up philosophy lightbulb and gives access to caste system and is prereq for CS--all good imo.

I like the idea of building the city 1E of the dye. I think with marble we definitely want to build the GL, probably in our capital. Should be easy since our capital looks like a production powerhouse.

We've got some good land and peaceful neighbours so, so far so good!

EDIT: Crap is this vanilla? Do I have to uninstall warlords?

checking in and

futurehermit said:

EDIT: Crap is this vanilla? Do I have to uninstall warlords?

Click to expand...

no you don't I have both and I can run either.

ok, that's good to know at least

Lurking
Wow is that a lot of food! This is great for you varient also with the coast, as water can produce commerce and be worked but doesn't count toward land%. Good Luck!

k, how many turns should i play and how long do i have to play them?

20 turns however you like. However I would like to see Compromise and Sunrise check into the thread before we move forward so if they have any input, we can hear it. If they dont post something in the next 2-3 hours, I will PM them before going to sleep.

Since we founded Buddhism, I like the idea of going oracle so we can get a prophet for our shrine. However, I don't like the idea of taking IW off of it since the AI always researchs it first so we can easily trade for it.

Click to expand...

Remember though, we have only met 2 AI's, and we cant be sure there is more on our island. So even if both Roosevelt and Lizabeth get IW, they probably wont trade to us for a while due to the "We dont want to start trading this technology away" message.

I thought about what you posted, and decided against it for a couple of reasons. First the one I posted above, then the fact that we need to research alphabet to trade which will take a long time since our research will be somewhat weak. Another thing is the risk of missing oracle in the time it will take to research writing, im pretty sure we will have to delay it for 8-12 turns to get writing before oracle is built.

Either way, Lets just set up things to build the oracle, we can decide what tech to take when we get closer to that point .

Dicorion said:

Lurker´s request:

Hm... this is a very nice map, would you be so kind and post your 4000BC. save? I would like to try this variant too, but feel not comfortable to make my typical dull decisions in SG-team
I will just try this at home, hidden behind my firewall

Thank you and wish you good luck. I will definitely loork this thread

Click to expand...

Sure, here is the initial save:

Checking in and saying that I prefer Quack's first option, with the IW grab with the Oracle.

I fly home from my trip tomorrow, so starting then I should be a good deal more available for this as well as RBW2 and Team C in Cultural Domination.

Qwack said:

Sure, here is the initial save:

Click to expand...

Thank you a lot. I´ll try it and compare my thoughts with yours.

Ok, well let me know when I can proceed. I will bow to the majority, but still believe it to be a waste to take IW off of the oracle. If two civs know a tech they will trade it much more quickly than if they are the only one that knows it...

Granted alphabet takes some time to research, but I just think that if we found some religions that will limit the number of religions the AI founds and thus make diplomatic relations easier in the long run.

Taking CoL gives us:

-Confucianism
-Ability to run caste system
-Prereq for CS (which can be lightbulbed with a prophet in vanilla right?)
-Prereq for philosophy lightbulb and Taoism/pacificism

Taking IW gives us:

-earlier knowledge of location of iron
-ability to clear jungle

Admittedly, there is a lot of jungle, including at the marble city. However, I just feel like option 1 gives us so much more...

I guess it also depends on what kind of economy we envision running? If we're going to run CE then clearing the jungle might be more important, but if we're going to run scientists off of food specials than the only concern with the jungles is the health issue, but we would only need a couple health resources to get us to a large enough size to be able to run a couple scientists off of a food special...

EDIT: Is that pig at the marble city covered by jungle? I can't tell from the screenshot. If it is, that complicates things...I don't really see another source of food there (although there are some blacked-out tiles)...so not to mention scientists, but just general growth will be a problem in that city prior to IW...If that is the case, I would question whether getting the marble is all that important. I didn't realize initially we were playing vanilla Ghandi. We're industrious, we could chop out the oracle w/out needing to research masonry, hook up the marble, etc. etc. Instead, why not build a city north of the jungle belt and earmark the marble for when we want to build GL/NE/HE/etc.??? That would mean we would not be as desperate for IW and can safely take CoL and then build in the jungle once we are able to trade for IW?

Compromise checking in briefly here...and at least temporarily checking out.

I'm having computer problems and already have to ask to be on perma-skip until I get them resolved. If you want to replace me with one of the others who expressed interest in playing, that's okay. Otherwise I'll post when I'm able to play Civ again.

Possible replacement checking in!

If futurehermit hasn't played by the time I get on tomorrow, I'll look at the save and try to give some useful input.

I need some more input before I play it seems...

Sorry hermit but after looking at the save and thinking about the comments here, I think taking IW would actually be the best move.

I don't think we can afford to risk getting IW late in this game and stunting our growth, all our future city sites already have a large amount of jungle surrounding them and the resources are covered (not the marble though). Also since we're ignoring archery, having IW earlier might be important vs barbs if theres no copper around.

Settling south 1E of the Dyes looks good, it would also fit in nicely with another city to the east of it later. The city will be able to work a 2 food 1 hammer tile immediately so the jungled up piggies can wait.

I don't think we'll have to worry too much about relations yet. 2 peaceful neighbours so far and both will likely be happy to trade with us even if they do grab their own religion.

Well i'm not going to be here till sunday, so good luck future hermit

well, if we're going to take something like IW off of oracle, why not take alpha instead and trade for iron. at least with alpha we can get other stuff as well. taking IW just seems like SUCH a waste to me