Passive agressive Vassal domination

So settings:
Warlords
Civ- to be decided
dificulty- Monarch
Map - Pangea, normal size.
Speed - Epic
All other settings are standard.

Variant
1) We must win by domination.
2) All Victory conditions are enabled.
3) We are not permitted to capture any other civ cities(no capture, no raise by military means). In war we only permitted to defend our cities and we can pillage as mach as we want and kill opponent units in the open. We can not attack cities and kill cities defenders. We can Bombard city defence, but that is all. We are permitted to capture barbarians cities.

Current Roster:

Mutineer - Gettting ready.
Slowcar -
shyuhe-
Tatran -
Open -


We need to sort out Civ/leader and do we need any other players?
I think 1 more would not hurt.

My opinioin on leader.

It has to be creative.
It believe it need to start with hunting.

Initial scout and ability to build 1-2 scouts at start I believe are essential.
In this kind of game getting as mach infor as posible befor barbarians spawn is extrimelly valible. Getting information and collect some hats give that initial ability to spawn cities with out loosing on research.

There are 5 Creative leaders and only 2 start with a scout, Catherine + Kublai Khan. The others, Hatshepsut + Louis XIV + Augustus Caesar.

Despite not starting with a scout, Augustus Caesar is superior.

Kublai's aggressive isn't very useful for our conditions. Since we already played Catherine, how about Louis (for wonders) or Augustus? We can gift praets with Augustus and they'll be a great help in vassalizing the first civ.

Actually i don't think you can gift away UUs - but i have to admit i never tried. Augustus has good traits and i think organized helps with vassal upkeep, too. Praets would help us expand with a smaller military.

One can gift UU, and it's stay UU.
Nice to get indian workers in teams.

Well, seems magority for Augustus I will role start.

Ok, I roled out start.
We again got cold climate. Start is interesting, to move or not to move?

I moved warrior, as there were no other choises where to move.

On the one hand the three ocean tiles are pretty worthless throughout the whole game as you can't even build a lighthouse without being costal.
On the other hand early gems give a nice boost in commerce.
My descision would be to go 1NE nontheless as we have absolutely no production here, not a single hill but the one with the pigs. Moving gives us more river tiles and maybe a hill within the black area.

Gems can be worked with a second city, maybe we are lucky and find some seafood in the west to make it worthy. They'll get into our borders quick enough to provide us with happyness.

Looking forward to bureaucracy a capital without any production whatsoever should be avoided.

I think there's jungle in the fog to the west so we're near the equator it seems (also explains the gems). Only one hill is a little worrisome for early production. Moving 1NE is a slight gamble since the eastern tiles may suck more, but I think it's a gamble worth taking. The extra plains hill will be nice.

Lurker's Comment
I would move 1 SE. That gives you the gems + 2 food. You don't need production in the capital (it will still have one grassland hill) with that much food you can whip like crazy and then run specialists to keep from growing. Anyway really the most important thing here is keep that grassland gems in the capital,that will skyrocket your tech and allow you to get to Feudalism much sooner.

I prefer to settle SE.
We can use the corn right away, city is coastal.

Second/next city can claim pigs + gems in the west.

Well, noty me choise very unstandart start and forced to go from there.

I decided that it would be important to claim as mach land as posible, so we need to move capital in land. There was nice plain hill visible. So, I move settler there and move wariror alone the cost.
Settler did not see any resources, but did see coast line. I did not want to move it near cost, so I blindli settle.
That reveal that capital has 0, zilch, nada of any special resources in the fat cross.

But we do have +1 shield sfrom plain hill and plain forest, to produce 4 shields/turn.
That practically decided that we need to steal minimum 2 workers to be competitive with such poor capital.

So, I set research on hunting, more warrior futher left and second warrior down. Thurd and wfouth I produce scouts to pop hats.
Mostly my warrior and scouts pop maps, but in one hat our lucky scout pop bronse working. I revolted.

I successfully steal worker from Capac and now start to escort it home.
Found Franch first, but there worker run away in time. Franch archer wandering about.

I see mongold and send last produced warrior in there direction, with hope to steal one more worker.

So, there is our nice capital, do not beat me



Here me stealing worker:


Our units:



Afgter hanting research set to agreeculture, as we will need to farm this grassland at capital.


save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Mutineer_Passive-Agressive_II_BC-3250.CivWarlordsSave

We do need to discuss where we go from here.

I don't understand why you moved 2 steps, a single one would have claimed the same amount of land and both food-resources would be still within the fat cross. The map-generator gives good starting-positions...
In my opinion you should have moved back.

Rest of the land looks promising, we can easily block the Incan and get them as our first vassal. Blocking Luis will be a more difficult thing, maybe we are lucky and find copper nearby again so we are able to harass him.

I would be happy to join

There are lots of cooper around, Capac has some. I wanted additional shield, as I was intent to steal worker from start. Did not work out to well, because all opponents are to far away, but otherwise I see no problem. Additional production let me to produce 3 warriors and 2 scouts, giving me a lot of hats and bronse working as result. I did steal one worker to. So, I do not think we are in bad position, but I did hope for sme luck, as I did not able to see land around me when I climb on hill.

My saggestion would be, MM capital to produce warrior as it grow to size 2. This would be defencinve warrior. Switch to settler so when worker arrived we can settle somewhere. Problem is, where? We need a good site to compencate for poor capital and probably with a good economy.

Capital will functioned fine as a production city, no problem. But some other city would need to produce future settlers.

PS: I now played civ for so long that I am confident in running otherwize risky gambits. This is one of them.

Well, I don't mind the extra move to grab the hammer for the capital. It will speed up our builds for a while and we can set up a settler farm elsewhere.

I think a settler between the gems and corn on the coast will produce settlers very fast. Then we can send the third to cramp Huayna. Or do we want want to settle the copper first to send axes to pressure him instead? There are some decent looking city sites near Cuzco also...

Are we doing 15 turn sets?

I will play a bit more then, then we put into 15 turns sets. I think people a bit nervous

Played a bit untill bring workers home.
Steal 3 worker, choping settler, researching Archery. I would suggest chop archer to protect settler. I marked suggested settling cite, (gold/cooper).





http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Mutineer_Passive-Agressive_II_BC-2770.CivWarlordsSave

Useal rpocidure, build a bit more military then useal and way untill they want peace, they will eventially.

I think we need to make peace with 2 and leave one for first Vassal, choise one.