Monasteries?

Monasteries...

Do ya build em?

If I'm going for cultural victory, definitely. Otherwise, I build them once in a while, but not often.

I'm a culture monger so I build them.

Also, they add 10% to your research in that city too, so that's another reason I usually build them.

I usually don't even found a religion, so my whole empire is usually atheistic (or pagan I guess) until someone spreads their religion to me. >_>

Back when I was a culture whore, you bet I built them. Although I don't usually bother anymore. If I need culture, I go with theatres and odeons. But if I'm not running Organized Religion, I build monasteries in my production cities and crank out missionaries like nobody's business.

Yes in science cities (10% is nothing to scoff at), no in production cities, and maybe in hybrid cities.

They are actually close to the efficiency of libraries in hammer:research ratio.

Except that they go away.

bardolph said:

Monasteries...

Do ya build em?

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Yes. Sharing a common religion is a great way to improve an AI's
attitude toward you. If I build monasteries, then I have the ability to
build missionaries *independent of my civics choice*, and send them
to the AIs. If an AI has not founded a religion, then sending a missionary
to the AI capital will often induce him/her to convert to your religion
as the state religion.

The science effect expires with Scientific Method, but the ability to
build missionaries does not. In the late game, if you switch to Free Religion,
then those missionaries can spread happiness when they spread religion.

i do. always. unless i'm playing one of my very rare "force myself to go to war early and kill 'em all" games. i am a builder, and somewhat of a culture-monger, at heart. i have this "well i'm not really ready to declare war yet" thing and i have to force myself, so those games are very very rare.

the ideal of course is to have multiple monasteries in science cities before SciM for +10% science. at the very least, i do everything possible to have at least one monastery of each religion i have somewhere in my empire by the time i hit scientific method, so that the opportunity to spread happiness around in free religion times is there.

sometimes i run OR but don't pick a state religion if i don't have lib yet for FR. could be i don't have monasteries in the right cities yet, maybe picking a state religion would be dangerous considering my neighbors, maybe i want the culture from multiple religions and multiple holy cities (that's a big one in culture games). OR costs more than paganism, but i'm able to build missionaries for any religion a city has, and having no state religion avoids "heathen religion" modifiers. later i can change to whatever civic, pick a religion, whatever, but in the meantime i've been able to spread my religions to multiple cities.

if i do have a state religion, monasteries are priceless pre-SciM if i'm running theocracy and want that bonuses in cities where i didn't get natural spread. if i have the holy city, i like spreading my state religion just for the line-of-sight spying, even if my intent is just selected cities, not actual conversion. depends on the political situation of course.

i'm also a big fan of using religion to manipulate diplomacy, spreading selected ones around when i have the time/hammers. sometimes not just my own religion, different flavors if i have them, to stir up trouble between other parties without having to bribe anybody.

one of my favorite things about the higher difficulty levels is that the AIs will build and send missionaries to you. i used to never see that on the lower levels (maybe once or twice from isabella, and that was just so she could be a pest and demand that you switch). lately i've been hooked on deity OCC games. several times my city ended up with 3-5 religions, none of which i founded. sure, they just wanted gold for their shrine, they do it even once we're all in free religion. i love it, gives me more culture weapons to fight back when they settle as close to me as they possibly can (which they are guaranteed to do).

KMadCandy said:

i do. always. unless i'm playing one of my very rare "force myself to go to war early and kill 'em all" games. i am a builder, and somewhat of a culture-monger, at heart. i have this "well i'm not really ready to declare war yet" thing and i have to force myself, so those games are very very rare.

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Hehe, I am that same way sometime. I play with random personalities on and I like to observe my neighbors, explore, and expand before I start opening borders and improving relations with any of them. I keep putting it off to see what they are like. I usually like to find someone that will war along side me all game before I declare.

As to monestaries, I build a good amount mostly if I am spiritual and/or found a religion. If I am not and am mooching religion from someone else, I only build them in key science cities but not alot.

I build several monastaries of any religion I have the shrine for. I also build a few other religion's monastaries for when I switch to Free Religion civic, in case I need the happiness to combat war weariness later on (huge marathon games).

I've always found that 10% science boost very handy - such a shame its gets obsoleted.
Like others I also build so I can spread religion in the later game - though having said that I rarely actually run the free religion civic!

Jaybe said:

I also build a few other religion's monastaries for when I switch to Free Religion civic, in case I need the happiness to combat war weariness later on (huge marathon games).

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Also if going for a cultural victory -- not just for the culture points in the relevant cities, but also so I can spread all religions I have to at least 9 (or whatever, depending on map size) cities, for the sake of the cathedrals.

I always build them. You get culture, science, and the ability to build missionaries, what's not to like? Those religious civics only help the faithful

Speaking of which, Scientific Method should obsolete monestaries and grant a +20% science research boost.

As it stands, learning the Scientific Method slows down your ability to learn science... um...

I like to build them in my big science cities, I'm so-so on Culture but I'm big on Science as I like to be a "technology advanced" Civ

KMadCandy said:

i do. always. unless i'm playing one of my very rare "force myself to go to war early and kill 'em all" games. i am a builder, and somewhat of a culture-monger, at heart. i have this "well i'm not really ready to declare war yet" thing and i have to force myself, so those games are very very rare.

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There's nothing wrong with that policy. Just declare war when you've run out of expansion room, and there's nowhere to grow except into another empire

the ideal of course is to have multiple monasteries in science cities before SciM for +10% science. at the very least, i do everything possible to have at least one monastery of each religion i have somewhere in my empire by the time i hit scientific method, so that the opportunity to spread happiness around in free religion times is there.

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I suppose I didn't really think about the science boost. +10% is not a lot compared to other science buildings. If I want science, I'm building Libraries/Universities/Observatories. Even Markets and Grocers will contribute more to your overall research (albeit indirectly), unless you are running mainly a specialist economy or your science slider is running at 80% or more.

The ability to stack multiple monasteries is nice. I hadn't considered that.
Do you know whether or not the +10% science still applies after scientific method?

My experience is that I never build monasteries because, before Scientific Method, there is always something more important to be building. There are better ways to get culture, better ways to get science, and since I'm usually running OR (for the +25% construction bonus), I can get missionaries without needing monasteries.

I suppose it's nice to tuck away 1 or 2 monasteries before switching to Free Religion. However, it's rare that I switch to FR before Scientific Method. It's just too hard for me to give up the +25% construction bonus from OR.

Monasteries get a little more value if you have the Spiral Minaret or the University of Sankore, but otherwise I just can't seem to make the time for Monasteries.

sometimes i run OR but don't pick a state religion if i don't have lib yet for FR. could be i don't have monasteries in the right cities yet, maybe picking a state religion would be dangerous considering my neighbors, maybe i want the culture from multiple religions and multiple holy cities (that's a big one in culture games). OR costs more than paganism, but i'm able to build missionaries for any religion a city has, and having no state religion avoids "heathen religion" modifiers. later i can change to whatever civic, pick a religion, whatever, but in the meantime i've been able to spread my religions to multiple cities.

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I haven't tried running OR without picking a state religion. I don't think the maintenance costs are worth it just for the missionaries. In that scenario, I think I'd just stay pagan, build the monastery, and move on. But, given the choice between +1 and getting rid of "religious heathen" modifiers, I'd rather take the happy face. My enemies can go to Hell (or Hades, Gehenna, Neraka, or wherever their "heathen religion" sends them when they die)

if i do have a state religion, monasteries are priceless pre-SciM if i'm running theocracy and want that bonuses in cities where i didn't get natural spread. if i have the holy city, i like spreading my state religion just for the line-of-sight spying, even if my intent is just selected cities, not actual conversion. depends on the political situation of course.

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Yes, but if I'm running Theocracy, I'm building soldiers, not missionaries. However, I can see why it would be useful to bring missionaries along to war (to get culture running in conquered cities ASAP).

I also haven't really given Pacifism a try. I'm too much of a warmonger to be willing to pay through the nose for unit upkeep. But I can see the benefits of Monasteries under Pacifism as well. Also, if I have an isolated start, Pacifism can help me lightbulb my way to optics and get to the other continent!

i'm also a big fan of using religion to manipulate diplomacy, spreading selected ones around when i have the time/hammers. sometimes not just my own religion, different flavors if i have them, to stir up trouble between other parties without having to bribe anybody.

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I suppose that the main reason why I've avoided monasteries is because I'm usually running OR (even past Liberalism). Maybe by building monasteries, I can liberate myself from the need to stay in OR all the time

Library: 90 production +25% science. 3.6/1%
Monestary: 60 production +10% science. 6/1%
Observatory: 150 production +25% science. 6/1%
University: 200 production +25% science. 8/1%
Lab: 250 production +25% science. 10/1%

In effect, Monestaries are Observatories that become obsolete, and instead of allowing Labs later they grant culture and missionary building now.

For culture:
Theatre. 50h +3c. 17h/c
Monument: 30 +1c. 30h/c
Monestary: 60 +2c. 30h/c
Missionary: 40 +1c. 40h/c, Must be built elsewhere
Library: 90 +2c. 45h/c
University. 200 +3c. 67h/c
Temple: 80 +1c. 80h/c

In terms of getting a bit of a culture-boost, monestaries are very efficient. Practically, however, the best way to get a city to basic-cross is to build a missionary somewhere else.

Lots of Monasteries for my state religion, send Missionaries everywhere possible, build temples etc. Extra science until Sci Meth, lots of gold from shrine and Spiral Minaret, line of sight to potential victim cities. All good stuff, and not too expensive to do.

Yakk said:

Library: 90 production +25% science. 3.6/1%
Monestary: 60 production +10% science. 6/1%
Observatory: 150 production +25% science. 6/1%
University: 200 production +25% science. 8/1%
Lab: 250 production +25% science. 10/1%

In effect, Monestaries are Observatories that become obsolete, and instead of allowing Labs later they grant culture and missionary building now.

For culture:
Theatre. 50h +3c. 17h/c
Monument: 30 +1c. 30h/c
Monestary: 60 +2c. 30h/c
Missionary: 40 +1c. 40h/c, Must be built elsewhere
Library: 90 +2c. 45h/c
University. 200 +3c. 67h/c
Temple: 80 +1c. 80h/c

In terms of getting a bit of a culture-boost, monestaries are very efficient. Practically, however, the best way to get a city to basic-cross is to build a missionary somewhere else.

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Good breakdown. I suppose that, once a Library is up, building a monastery is a pretty cost-effective way to increase science and culture, and cheaper than building a University.

That's what I believe, monasteries are useful for:

-border cities requiring culture
-beaker focused cities
-for quick fat-cross recovery in certain low growth cities (e.g. near tundra), especially after conquering (whipping libraries may require higher pop.)
-religous spreading if organized religion is not desirable

They also help for a while if I planned for spiral min./U of Sankore combo.

They are a waste of hammers for those high production/low commerce cities in the middle of the empire.