Another SE immortal game

Inspired by the posts here on SE games by acidsatyr and aelf, I am going to try one myself with every mother's
favourite son, Gandi.



I hate these sort of starts, I don't start with fishing and there is no way a city can use all that much seafood.
I am going to move inlands and get closer to the enermies Sometimes you are just surrounded by jungle.
Let's hope it's not the case here.



Irrigated corn! And Pigs! All with river commerce! I guess we got lucky here. Also pop a scout with the settler



3880 BC: Delhi is founded. Looks like a great capital, river, great food and good production with 3 hills. The
research plan is Ag -> AH -> BW, get strategic resource with the first settler, and then Fishing for the
second and/or third settler back near our starting position.

3800 BC: met Cyrus
3680 BC: Buddism founded
3640 BC: met Alex, I don't like him so much......

Scout was eaten by a bear, but it's done its job and revealed a lot of the land. I see the land around
is good. A few turns later Cyrus settle on the spot with corn, pig and sugar.




First settler is ready 2 turns before BW. I waited, with all these land, bronze must be somewhere right?



And look where it is, right next to Delhi! Riverside grassland bronze? It does't get any better
than this, I don't even have to research the wheel to hook it up. Our capital is now officially amazing.
Moving really paid off, I didn't peek at the world builder, I promise, but even I can't believe this



So now is decision time, where to settle? We can get horse, pig and corn for another great city site but
I feel we should settle up river towards Cyrus to cramp him up. Also there is this blue circle in the middle
of no resources, which I think could mean iron. So I am stopping here since this is big decision time.
Another question is if we want to axe rush Cyrus?

first!

ok, i think you made a mistake of moving you settler, true capital looks good, but you will still have to build city your initial spot to get that food, so turns are wasted...
axe rush is good idea

I think he moved the setler so he could block some land kinda what snaaty is doing. This way he can also split the seafood up between 2 other cities. Though one of them will have to have sevral thundra in fat cross but it doesnt matter as much until veery late in the game. axerush sounds like a plan. Just a question. Why didnt you work the corn while building the warrior? You cant afford to not have copper within your first or second city? or you need protection from barbs? wouldnt growing first be better almost no matter what?

I just really hate researching Fishing first, especially when I can't work a plain/hill to get that workboat out fast.
Wouldn't 7 turns of Fishing and then 10 turns of workboat be worst than the 4 turns I wasted? I don't plan to get
Fishing until the second settler anyway, by then it should take less turns and the boat can be chopped.

I didn't work the corn since I want a warrior out asap because I think the barbs can settle cities before
they will attack you, or maybe I am just mistaken. I recall once they settled on my original capital site
before I have my settler ready. That really pissed me off so I vow to never let that happen again and have a
warrior watch my backyard from the beginning.

So axe rush it is but now where to place this second city? I think there are 3 options

3N1W of captial: this can use the capital's pigs for some ultra quick developement.
4N: this cannot use the pig but still start producing before border pop.
5N: this would be a pain in Cyrus's butt. If I chop a monument can that win against the capital's
third ring? If so then this would make invasion 1 turn quicker. However this has to wait for the border
pop to have any production.

yes but you don't know what kind of land you'r on..what if its a small piece of land, what if there were no resources where you moved your settler but rather crappy desert, what if your alone!? instead getting out couple of warriors for fogbust anyway and getting that clam, fish (both food and commerce) online would be safer.. in fact you dont even need boats to work that water

anywayz good luck with the game

Historical note: Ghandi would be every mother's worse nightmare. This man had too much ideals and no political, strategic or common sense at all. Without a ton of luck, he would've died so many times over. Most famous leaders have both connections and extreme intellegence, and Ghandi... somehow... just stands out amongst the list of leaders that's just ... a little... different...

He did waste two turns, but it's not murderous. Although, you do great land and a fast settler. Don't be a pacifist: go bash someone with chariots. After all, if I remember correctly, Indians used chariots before the Egyptians, before the Babylonians.

Ok so I decided to be super agressive with the settler and stick Bombay up Cyrus's butt



Worker is there to chop for a monument, I just want to hold the square 1E so that when I invade it will
be swift. Meanwhile I want to settle a thrid city before cranking out the axemen. So Wheel and Fishing
is researched next Madras is founded in 1720BC 3SW of the capital. It has clam and fish and is close so that
it actually made money straight away.
Then it is just a matter of getting Writing, chop/rush a libray in Madras while the other two cities build
axes.

1560BC: Oracle built
1480BC: Wrting discovered
1440BC: Cyrus builds the Great Wall! This is quite interesting since if I axe rush him early
and whip a library, run a scientist then there is a 50-50 chance that I get an GE for Pyramid
in 12 turns! I think this is worth a try.



Yeap Bombay is definitely holding firm and proves to be a royal pain to Cyrus. Also I misclicked
mathematics instead of alphbet for research, that's soon corrected. However Cyrus seems to have between
5-7 CG1 archers in Persepolis. This is going to get bloody.

850BC: I declare.



Actually had 12 axes but lost one just to kill the acher on that hill guarding the marble. Oh well I can whip
a quick reinforcement in Bombay if necessary. I was hoping the CR2 axes would carry the day.

The enermy:



Then the AI shows how utterly stupid it is in war, Cyrus actually moved out an archer, presumably to
protect its other cities so only 5 were left. The first 6 axes lost but the last 5 won. Yay!



Yep, size 7, just right for whipping library. Thanks Charismatic However 6 turns of revolt sucks.



Razing and pillaging to fund research. The only other city I actually want is sitting on top of a hill looking
very scary.



After getting Alphabet, I see that Cyrus has Maths but not Alex. Cyrus wouldn't give it for peace so I decided
to beat him up somemore until he agrees. I am not actually trying to get cities just killing his wondering archers.
In fact I have stopped building axes and is getting library up in all cities.

The dream... In fact I have to stop running scientists in Madras and Delhi to wait for this. It's no great loss
since the GS will only lightbulb Maths at this stage.



450BC: Pyramid built overses, D'oh!! Only three turns to go. I guess those 6 turns in revolt is too much. It
was only 50-50 chance anyway. Convienently Alex gets Maths this turn, so I traded him Alphabet, and got
peace with Cyrus for Sailing and Masonry. Now I don't want a GE anymore since Persepolis had marble and
the GL is ours for sure.



Because we don't have iron working yet, a GS will pop Calender, which is huge both for the happiness
and the commerce. We have no happiness at all. Calender brings silk and dye, and sugar after IW. Also Delhi
is dying to run some scientists instead of building research

Next turn a GS shows up in Delhi and pops Calender. Turn after Literature is researched and Delhi gets to work
on the GL. Meanwhile I am researching Drama then Meditation , since another GS will be due in Madras
at exactly the right time. I really want to get Taoism because there is no religion in this continent yet.
I can use the happiness of our cheap temples and also better trade relations with Alex would be nice.
I want to get to friendly with him, otherwise he won't trade becasuse Cyrus is far behind. In this turn traded

325BC: Bangalore founded to get the rest of the seafood.
175BC: We have the GL!

Madras and Delhi:





25BC: Got Drama.
1AD: Cyrus finally has IW so I traded Drama to Alex for IW.
25AD: Meditation done, same turn Plato appeared in Madras, and fittingly he discovers Philosophy.

Now I pause, this game has gone really well so far. Alex is pleased but he has enough on his hands now.
This is scary since he has Construction and we don't. I hope he goes after Cyrus and not us. I am going
to chop for Heroic Epic in Bombay. We also have a great general sitting around. Now the Taoism missionary,
I sent him to Delhi before checking on Alex, but now I want to get it to Athens for religious spying and better
relations. Alex is only Cautious towards Cyrus and in fact we can get him to cancel deals with Cyrus for
Literature. However Alex can still get to us. So now the questions is do we research Construction for
safety or Priesthood->CoL for caste system and courthouses? If Alex has any common sense
he would be going after Cyrus and not us.

Our empire: we need more workers......





Our continent:

Well played but was popping for calender a good idea? I always get that tech in a package deal from the AI. As for Alex, enough on his hands is scary, have you checked the power graph? I think you have to get defences up in cities he might attack, it's just too hard telling what he's up to, i've seen him busy like this many times and sometimes he just doesn't attack anyone or he waits very long.

Actually it was a turning point in our game getting Calender. We had no happiness at all and cities
at pop 3 aren't exactly productive. It was so bad that Drama was taking 20 turns to get. The immediate
commerce of dye and silk is worth a specialst in its own, and then the 2 extra pops are huge. I feel that it
really got us out of a hole. Neither Alex or Cyrus had it at the time and to wait for them both to get it is
just too slow, not to mention Cyrus didn't even have IW and was seriously backwards.

I am more worry about the other continent running away because they are all trading with each others.

Dirk1302 said:

Well played but was popping for calender a good idea? I always get that tech in a package deal from the AI. As for Alex, enough on his hands is scary, have you checked the power graph? I think you have to get defences up in cities he might attack, it's just too hard telling what he's up to, i've seen him busy like this many times and sometimes he just doesn't attack anyone or he waits very long.

Click to expand...

You've got a lot of Calender resources indeed. I usually research Monarchy early (if i have gold mines takes too long otherwise) or build oracle and take Monarchy to take care of the happiness. Also i try to avoid hunting so i can cram in lots of warriors as military police.

As for the other continent, you're in prime position now with good land and 5 cities already, you'll catch up.

Very interesting play so far. What are you going to do with the Great General? Seeing how you're going to build many of your troops in Bombay I'd say the best thing would be to settle it there as a Military Instructor. I assume you don't have Theocracy available, so it would be a good way to have some more promoted units coming out. I'm not sure the alternative (Super Medic) is better at this point, since you're probably going to get another General from finishing Cyrus and that war won't last long enough to warrant the use of a super medic. If finishing Cyrus is what you want, of course... With only you and Alex left on the continent it might be risky to do it. Have you considered sending a Taoist Missionary to Alex to get him to your religion? Maybe if you get him to Friendly you can afford killing Cyrus.

So I decide to go for CoL for caste system. At this stage our GPP production and research
is actually limited by the 2 slots of scientist, caste system bascially doubles it. I stick
4 axes each is Bombay and Persepolis. Hopefully that discourages Alex enough to go for Cyrus,
who still has only archers at this time.

75AD: Settle Calcutta 1E of Iron. It will use Persepolis's pigs for growth.



Taoism actually spread pretty fast to both Alex and Cyrus, and also Delhi, how convenient. I
am not running Pacifism yet since the military upkeep will slow us down towards CoL.

200AD: GS in Delhi, I am saving him for Paper.
325AD: CoL done in one turn, and I see Alex has Currency, which of course he's not trading, I
give him Literature for 350 gold.

350AD: Alex wants Philosophy, in your dreams. He drops to Cautious, uh oh, better get Construction
NOW. Swtich to Pacifism and Caste system.



375AD: Alex declares on Cyrus. Yes!
400AD: Alex asks for help in war. Since Heroic Epic is one turn away and I plan on attacking
Cyrus anyway, I agree.



What is this? It seems Cyrus has Construction, and since we have put a few turns into it, Alex
will trade it for CoL. What a lucky break!



The HE city is the other vital piece in my games. All my troops until drafting will come from it.
As you can see, it has 12x2=24 military production and so gets a catapult in every 2 turns. But
with two chops to help out. It produced 6 cats in 6 turns, and we are ready for some action.



520AD: we are going to get another GS in Delhi. Have a look at Madras and Bangalore.






With these sort of GPP production, we will have enough GS's for Paper, Education and Liberalism in
time. I feel that research is our bottle neck and so I set up an academy with the previous GS. That's
10 more beakers and 2 turns off Civil Service, probably should have done it earlier, oh well.



Oh yeah I did settle the military instructor in Bombay, and CR2 cats easily cleans up cities. Good
old cats, nothing beats cats.............. except more cats.






600AD: Alex captures a city and Cyrus capitulates. WTH???? I thought you need Feudalism to do that?
So only the master needs Feudalism? Damn it, we were just resting before capturing the next city.

620AD: GS in Madras. That's 2, need 1 more, so I am staving Delhi to squeeze one out in time with
Civil Service.



700AD: Civil Service done, and Paper, Education also poped. Now I need Compass and Metal Casting
in order to unlock Liberalism for lightbulbing. Usually I can trade for these with Paper or even
earlier. But I have no trading partners this game. I am feeling worried that we will lose the Liberalism
race. Alex had Meal Casting but will never part with it. MC + Compass is about 1400 beakers, a GS
will give 1600+, so it is still quicker to lightbulb.

But first, some massive whipping for Universities and Oxford. Switch to Bureaucracy + Slavery +
Paganism, I won't be running specialists and can save some military upkeep. Apart from the newly
aquired Pasagardae, all other six already had libraries for culture, and I made sure they are all
size 6. Universities are whipped in all cities and then trees are chopped for the Oxford in Delhi.
While we are at it, also whip theaters if not alredy built.


800AD: Switch back to Caste + Pacifism. Traded for Monothesm and HBR from Cyrus.

860AD: Oxford built, here's a view of Delhi.



Not bad for 0% science.

880AD: MC done

920AD: Saw Alex marching a large stack towards the barb town in our backyard. Actually it has the only
source of horse on our continent and I am not about to let Alex have that. Since I have worker tobuild roads,
I got there 1 turn before Alex



980AD: I will have a GS from Delhi next turn, then we don't need the GS's so urgently, so I decide to
switch to Organized Religion to increase the effectiveness of trees for the Globe in Persepolis. Also I
switch to Barbarism thinking it may save some cash. But I think it was a mistake since at this stage the
civic cost is no more than the 50% of just the palace income.

1000AD: pop the GS and run huge deficit researh to get Liberalism in 2 turns.




1020AD: Gor Liberalism, take Nationalism. What next? We bascially scamble to Liberalism. Contitution and
representation will double our research ability. So that is priority number 1. However we have bad cash flow
and Constitution will take forever so Currency is needed. Also Alex is running around with maces, cats no
longer answers that, we need Machinery. The worst thing is that we cannot trade for anything with our
tech lead! But the GS comes to the rescue yet again. Bangalore is due to have a GS in a few turns and he
can pop Machinary for us. So reluctantly I started Currency. Well two turns later Cyrus finally gets
Cureency and I quickly traded to save us from the embarrassment of self researching Currency after
Liberalism. Also Monarchy has been available for a while from Alex, and I traded Paper for it.

1060AD: GS arrives, pop Machinery.
Switch to HR + Nationhood + Slavery, time to whip courthouses. Bombay is building some experienced
maces while Persepolis is drafting them.

I stop here. The plan is to get constitution and use our supuerior research to get a lead in miitarily,
ie grenadiers and cannons and then beat up Alex. We'll see. And man do I ever want to see some
caravels, this no trading is killing me, who knows what the other continent is up to.

Looks good so far. I really like this game, much cleaner SE than Aelf's current game; even tough it is getting far less attention..
First game I saw after mine that is actually pure SE on this forum fueled by scientists’ research.
Glad you don't have a single cottage in this game as it would be clearly detrimental;
Nothing beats Gandhi’s traits and SE. ;p
Once you get Representation/ Biology it will be even nicer.
You didn't post save, so i can't have a closer look at it;
Did you consider using scientists to pop your way to grenadiers. Something I would seriously consider since you have Alex as your only neighbor now and getting rid of him sooner rather than later is probably best.
Not sure if getting Nationalism was best choice, but again I'd need to have closer look at it.
Anywayz, gl with next turnset.

I like the extensive use you've made of caste system in this game. I play Ghandi a lot farming all the tiles i can farm. I find myself using slavery most of the time, whipping infra and units.

acidsatyr said:

Looks good so far. I really like this game, much cleaner SE than Aelf's current game; even tough it is getting far less attention..
First game I saw after mine that is actually pure SE on this forum fueled by scientists’ research.
Glad you don't have a single cottage in this game as it would be clearly detrimental;
Nothing beats Gandhi’s traits and SE. ;p
Once you get Representation/ Biology it will be even nicer.
You didn't post save, so i can't have a closer look at it;
Did you consider using scientists to pop your way to grenadiers. Something I would seriously consider since you have Alex as your only neighbor now and getting rid of him sooner rather than later is probably best.
Not sure if getting Nationalism was best choice, but again I'd need to have closer look at it.
Anywayz, gl with next turnset.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your kind words, here is a save. A few comments, all cottages in my land are built
by others, in fact the ones near Pasagadae need to be demolished to irrigate the corn.
Alex has settle a very annoying town in our backyard, and is marching two very menacing
stacks in our land. I have been planning for Nationalism all the way, building the Globe for drafting.
We need to draft every turn now, there is no other way to put up a defense against Alex.
Indeed I will be using the next 2 GS for Printing Press and Chemistry.
Interestingly Alex is now willing to trade Feudalism, I reckon he has seen a caravel.
Our research has not suffer much even in Slavery because of Oxford. I will never whip the capital after Oxford. when each specialist is multiply by 3 it's simply
too costly to whip.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106707/P_AD-1060.CivWarlordsSave

Sure enough, next turn we met Brenus. I noticed I can offer him defensive pack. WTH??! calvaries already??
I gave him Drama to improve relations.



Now Alex is willing to trade Engineering + Optics for Education? Yes please! See how our GS poped Machinery
just in time to open this up? Start building trebs instead of maces in Bombay.



I noticed that Sankore is not built yet. Maybe I can hurry along that GE from the great wall? It goes nicely
with our cheap temples.

1080AD: Well scratch that idea, Brenus get Papar and a GE to build Sankore. He also build the Taj and is having
a GA. I hope he's not running too far ahead.

I don't like the look of this at all in our backyard.



1110AD: 5 turns up, Switch back to CS + Pacifism. The great thing about Oxford is that the capital is a
constant source of GPP and research regardless of civics or science rate. This is huge since often you
cannot wait for 5 turns of downtime in research. Nationhood is unbelievable, free troops and no upkeep?

As you can see the capital does most of the research anyway in Slavery or CS. Actually the difference should
be even less since I was running 10% higher science rate in the second pic.





Ask Alex for some cash and he gave it to us.

The specialist economy: We will be losing money even at 100% gold. I don't want to run merchants since we have
libs and unis but no markets. This stage of the game isall about trying to stay away from bankrupcy by whatever
means possible while building some troops and running pacifism. It's a very fine line and actually quite fun.













1140AD: Brennus get Astronomy already. Man he's advanced. However this is good for us too, trade him copper for
cow + rice and pig for gold. This solves our health problem.

1160AD: Met Saladin, gave him Paper for 40 golds to improve relations. Gave Brennus Education for Feudalism +
Music + 70 golds. We get a GS at Delhi, we are cranking them out at some crazy rates now, I settle this one
and up science rate to get Constitution in 2.

1170AD: gave Brennus Liberalism for Guidls + 10

1180AD:gave Saladin Philosophy for Banking + 10, afterthe initial dry patch, trades are coming thick and
fast now, all our key missing techs are falling into places. Switch to Vassalage + Representation + Mercantilism.
We have drafted enough maces to keep Alex honest for a while, new recruits are quite ineffective against
Alex's agressive combat 2 maces, so they are only for city garrison. I would rather get some CR2 trebs as
Persepolis goes from food mode to production mode. Versaltility is the name of the game here. Once we get
Gunpowder we'll switch again to drafting muskets.

Speaking of Gunpowder, look at our research just explodeing under Representation. Gunpowder in 4 turns at 0%
science! And don't you think Delhi is quite the research monster at this stage of the game? Unfortunately
it won't grow much until Biology, but we will press home the advantage NOW. We are losing money at 100% gold
so we'll have to run some merchants soon, I will run merchants in fringe cities like Calcutta first, we can
still use a couple more of GS for lightbulb and settling. In anticipation for this, Calcutta has been
building a market for a while and will soon finish because of the iron. Whipping is less mandatory with
good planning.



1200AD: GS in Madras, bulb Printing Press
1220AD: Gowdowder done. I could get Chemistry in 7 turns, however a GS is also due in 7 turns. I want to use it
to finish Chemistry since there is nothing good to lightbulb after Chemistry. I will need 2 turns to finish
Printing Press, and 3 turns to put into Chemistry. What to do with the extra 2 turns? Theology! Theocracy
will make our draftees level 1 which is huge.

1240AD: Theology done
1260AD: PP done, also meet Isabella. No wonder I won the Liberalism race. Three religious nuts with three
diffrent religions. can't even imagine the tension. I would have probably lost and my situation in ruins if
Mansa Musa is there.
1280AD: I see that one more turn of research into Chemistry will actually be more than enough, in order not
to waste the GS beakers I sink this turn into Astronomy.

1290AD: GS in Delhi for Chemistry. You see after one turn of Astronomy Brennus is willing to trade it
for Theolgy and PP, he wouldn't do it before. We want Astronomy for Frigates to defend our nets in the
immenent war against Alex. A word of advice though, do NOT ever trade for Astronomy before burning your GS
for Chemistry, it will open up Scientific Methods.



Swtich to Nationhood + Theocrcy, draft muskets in Persepolis, will build Grenadier in Bombay. We are up a lot
of techs on Alex, time to press home the advantage.



We will leave Pacifism forever, it's just too expensive as we ramp up our military, already costing 34 gpt.

Alex is keeping a stack right next to Calcutta. I cancel open border with him and the stack pops up in our back
yard. This city has to go first before the stack gets in. I see that Alex has upgraded swords to maces, we will
have huge problem with this stack in the open, but it's stuck in a city with low defence. Our CR2 trebs will
make mincemeat out of them.





I declare, bombard with a treb and cat, then just wipe the floor with Alex, losing a single treb, with a
couple leveling to be CR3, and getting a GG to boot. Not a bad start to a war eh?

1300AD: I made a medic 3 move 2 treb. medic 3 chariots are ok but all it does is heal, whereas a cat or treb
will still bombard while healing the rest, and since it has 2 moves bambards straightaway after moving next
to a city. For a treb the extra defense reduction is quite significant. All in all a very handy unit.



Research set to Steel, done in 9 turns thanks to our research boom. Alex has no horses and so no counter
to cannons, he is still missing Gunpowder, it'll take him a while to get to Steel himself.

1310AD: Alex moves his other stack into my land, but I am prepared with a couple of combat 2 cats stationed
in Calcutta, wiping his stack with a newly recruited musket. Man, siege units are the shitz........

Our forces begin the long march to the frontline, we have to get Cyrus first before getting to Alex's core
cities, it will take a long time before we actually hurt Alex's research. we will need all of the the big
lead if we hope to finish him off this war.

1350AD: Got together some defending maces and cats in Pasargadae to capture Arbela. Cyrus is very weak.



1370AD: Upgraded a caravel to Frigate to defend nets, very expensive but must be done. Nationalism and
Gunpowder to Saladin for Replacable Parts + 110, very nice, can get Rifling to draft rifles next. Muskets
near Persepolis beat up some randomness Alex threw at us, getiing another GG in the process thanks to
the Great Wall. There are two options, military academy in Bombay or instructor in Persepolis so that we
run the money saving Free Religion and improve diplomatic standings.

1380AD: Main forces arrives to capture Tarsus, lost a few men because it's on a hill but gets 4 workers.
Frigate kills caravel.

1390AD: I stop here. Steel done next turn. Cyrus is gone and we are ready to go at Alex proper. It's
exciting to see an entire game's preparation coming into fruition. The fun is just starting. We need
a lot of cash now to upgrade trebs to cannons which I think is a bargain at 80 each, producing cannons is
too slow, they can be reinforcements. Clearly Rifling should be next.



True to form, Alex has Military Tradition. You have no horses, man! Ha ha!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/106707/P_AD-1390go.CivWarlordsSave

nice

sdfsdfsd

Very nice job with the pure SE. I always chicken out around alphabet as the economy gets very risky (borderline bankruptcy, as you mentioned) so I start to cottage a few river tiles. Maybe next game I will try running the pure SE. Spiritiaul/philosophical are definitely the two best traits for running a pure SE - maybe I end up in hybrid SE because I just play spiritual civs without the philosophical part? I will have to push the envelope with a pure SE next time...

I like the promoted treb you made. It definitely looks more useful than a medic3 chariot. I noticed that you're very aggressive on your tech trading - isn't WFYABTA going to creep up soon? I think some of the civs in your game have pretty low limits. Then again, I guess it also depends on what victory condition you're aiming for.

Brennus' 1070AD cavalry is a little frightening... How has he not dominated the other continent with that kind of tech lead??

Keep up the nice work - I'd like to see how you wrap up the midgame after warring with Alex